Topic started by Vj (@ 61.11.82.133) on Fri Sep 13 01:34:54 EDT 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
songs that come to mind
1. poottukkal pottaalum - chathriyan
2. Indiranum sundaranum - Avathaaram
we'll discuss about other songs in this thread, regardless of who the MD is.
Responses:
- From: purv (@ )
on: Mon Sep 23 10:53:08 EDT 2002
Here goes my list:
1. Kannukkul Nooru Nilavu (Vedham Pudhithu)
2. Paadi Azhaiththen (Rasigan Oru Rasigai)-- A lot of Ravindran's songs I've heard are a mix of WCM and ICM (Indian Classical Music)
3. Many Ilayaraja songs in Malayalam, esp. those in Guru, Yathra Mozhi
- From: Awe (@ 66.138.140.208)
on: Mon Sep 23 14:58:04 EDT 2002
Illayaja has used WCM extensively in all his BGM and songs
- From: yaaro (@ 195.93.34.7)
on: Wed Sep 25 13:53:37 EDT 2002
My keen interst in WCM developed from listening to IR.The following songs have excellent wcm type orchestrations.
Poonkadhave-bach like opening
interludes from ilavattam from my dear marthandan
interludes from mandirapunnagiyo form movie of same name
thenmozhi-solla thudikkudhu manasu
second interlude of andhi mazhai
second interludes of madai thirandhu
interludes from paruvame
love theme from punnagai mannan
randi randi-from rudraveena-amazing song.
interludes from ore naal
second interlude from akkarai seemai azhaginile
chandirarum sooriyarum from avatharam-this song is unique-repeated strings form the rhythm for the song.
interludes from poongatru-fantastic!
modern concerto from rajapaarvai.
ennulle ennulle-valli-fantastic orchestration!
malare malare from un kannil neer vazhindhal.
second interlude from vazhi vidu vazhi vidu-what movie is this?
interludes from oru naal ,unnodu-probably his first song with use of wcm type orchestration.
edho moham-more of a fusion
second interlude of en iniya pon nilaave
many dfers have raved about niram pirithu song from time.
inter ludes from ilam pani thuli.
ARR's veerapandi kottaiyile was an amazing song in an operatic vein-I still think this is best effort till date-the entire album.
more to follow
- From: K (@ 12.104.48.60)
on: Wed Sep 25 20:48:06 EDT 2002
Veerapandi kottayile sounds exactly like "etham kanda rassave" from Pagalil oru Iravu, an IR movie of the late '70s
- From: Nazir (@ 172.149.45.13)
on: Wed Sep 25 21:38:37 EDT 2002
Having WCM knowledge is worthy but is it a must for a Indian Music director? When our lyricists use english words in their song we shout at our strongest voice but when a Indian MD infuses Western Classical we go ga ga..why is that?
Is WCM necessary for Indian songs?
- From: Kiran (@ 210.187.110.230)
on: Thu Sep 26 00:23:22 EDT 2002
sirichalai....."alola..." song second interlude!!
- From: yaaro (@ 195.93.34.7)
on: Thu Sep 26 11:25:27 EDT 2002
nazir- of course it is-I have given my reasons in the thread started by you.
- From: Vj (@ 61.11.77.227)
on: Fri Sep 27 00:20:35 EDT 2002
'Strawberry kanney' - "Minsara kanavu" had a very good one with WCM string sections.
'Raadhai manadhu' - "Snehidhiye" towards the end had a pathetic try at WCM, IMO.
'Kanpona pokkiley' - "Panam padaithavan" .. a classic of the olden era.
"Suttumsudarvizhi paarvayile" - Siraichaalai... a damn good one.
"Putham pudhuboomi vendum" - Thiruda Thiruda... another good one.
- From: Awe (@ 65.69.59.135)
on: Fri Sep 27 02:09:33 EDT 2002
Raja usually does a great fusion music.. Some of them i have heard are..
1) Thoorathil Naan Kanda Un Mugam - First Interlude.. Entire song is such a treat from IR
Very underrated song.
2) PuthamPudhu Solai from Vedam Pudidhu by Devendran. Opening is WCM flavored. Very much like IR song.
3) Vasantha Kala Kolangal from Thyagam does have mild flavor of WCM. But what a song? One of the best by SJ IMHO.
4) Poove Sempoove from ST Manasu has WCM all over the song
5) Anbe Anbe song from Sadhanai interdludes have WCM shades
6) Vaan Megam from Punnagai Mannan has WCM flavor in the interludes.. It sounds very modern though. Great song.
7) Ival Oru Ilanguruvi from Brahmma second interlude has WCM mix.
...... I will add some more
- From: Awe (@ 65.69.59.135)
on: Fri Sep 27 02:22:32 EDT 2002
Nazir.. using english words is very different from using another musical form. Orchestration music gives reach your heart and soul. I take it that you have never heard WCM. Britney Spears, J' LO, Ace of the base songs are all over in MTV. So we shouldn't copy that. Unfortunately our "modern MD"s imitate pop tunes. But do you get to listen to Bach, Mozart, Beethoven in cable? I have number of collections of Mozart and Beethoven some of them are DVD version which supports six channels. When you listen to them in six channels you are immersed in it. There is a difference between Foot tapping tunes and Soul Stirring tunes. WCM has belongs to the later.
In Tamil Movies with so much emotional scenes WCM is the most apt music. No one has WCM as extensively as Illayaraja. He needs to be appreciated for his extraordinary ability to perfectly mix WCM and Carnatic. Thanks you Raja.
- From: Vj (@ 61.11.77.227)
on: Fri Sep 27 06:08:36 EDT 2002
recently, "Pollaadha madhana baanam" - HeyRam had a staggering score of WCM at the end of the song... initially, when i heard the song, i thought it would be for some superb picturisation for the composition related to the story... but at the end of the day, after i saw the film when Kamal had picturised it for the 'Union' scene with Vasudhara, my anger knew no bounds for spoiling such a good composition to a scene which didnt require such a high-class composition.
- From: vel (@ 202.88.152.159)
on: Fri Sep 27 07:24:48 EDT 2002
Vj...the picturizations (in HEY RAM) were already done and for the first time in film music history, IR scored songs to match the scenes already picturized :-)
- From: yaaro (@ 195.93.34.7)
on: Fri Sep 27 09:09:48 EDT 2002
for this reason he is in the limca book of records.
- From: Vj (@ 61.11.80.180)
on: Sat Sep 28 05:37:20 EDT 2002
"All the time" from Naadodi thendral.. a fully WCM-oriented song..
- From: Venkatesh (@ 212.72.11.66)
on: Sat Sep 28 06:14:57 EDT 2002
Unnai ethir parthen - Vanaja Girija
Oru oorila oru rajakumaran - Maya Bazar 95 (WCM type orchestration)
Naan porandhu vandhadhu - Maya Bazar 95 (WCM style chorus)
Kathum kadal - Kattumarakkaran
Amman kovil ellame - Rajavin parvayil (WCM style interludes)
- From: yaaro (@ 172.180.132.87)
on: Sat Sep 28 08:12:33 EDT 2002
who can forget manidha manidha-nothing to beat IR-VM combination!
- From: Awe (@ 65.69.58.114)
on: Sat Sep 28 23:02:25 EDT 2002
Satham Varamal song from My Dear Marthandan has nice WCM flavor..
- From: Vj (@ 61.11.80.33)
on: Sun Sep 29 03:35:14 EDT 2002
"Vizhiyile mani vizhiyil mouna mozhi pesum annam" - Nooravadhu Naal (?!!) has wonderful interludes.
same goes with "Neelakuyile unnodu naan panpaaduven" - Magudi. excellent piece.
- From: Vj (@ 61.11.83.66)
on: Mon Sep 30 04:17:38 EDT 2002
"Mazhai varudhu mazhai varudhu" from 'Raaja kaiya vachaa"... especially the 2nd interludes... damn cool with piano
- From: yaaro (@ 195.93.50.7)
on: Mon Sep 30 09:06:36 EDT 2002
I like the way IR does a wcm interpretation of his songs -esp when used as a bGM.The best instance I can remember in recent times is-aayiram kodi from karisakkattu poove.This is where he is different from others who just play the song in various speeds and different instruments.
His bgm for telugu geethanjali was almost 75 percent wcm oreinted-Hindu was the only magazine to notice this at that time.I still hum the opening bgm-I have heard it only 2 or 3 times.it is stuck in my mind so firmly.
The whole movie is a feast for bgm lovers-esp if interested in wcm.
other use of wcm in tfm include following staright lifts-
beethoven's fur elise became en manadhu onrudhan(?MD)
staraight lift by deva of a brief passage fro beethoven's fifth symphony for annamalai annamalai
- From: Awe (@ 65.69.56.238)
on: Mon Sep 30 21:34:29 EDT 2002
Uravugal Thodargathai from Aval Appadithan has WCM flavor in the second interlude. He effectively uses that in BGM also. I still remember the scene in Poove Poochudava where Nadhiya gets off the bus and looks around. You would see a bird flying. The BGM for that scene was really hair raising. I was in love with that BGM.
- From: Vj (@ 61.11.80.33)
on: Tue Oct 1 01:03:07 EDT 2002
yaaro... which movie is that song 'en manadhu ondrudhaan' ?
'Thangamagan indru singa nadai pottu' from Baasha had starting piece from Beethoven (?!!).. and thats actually a reuse of the that rain song from 'Senthoorapaandi'.
- From: Venkatesh (@ 212.72.11.66)
on: Tue Oct 1 01:30:40 EDT 2002
yaaro,
Some more WCM interpretations of the song in the BGM are:
1) Mayil pola ponnu onnu in Bharathi (Devayani-Bharathi first night scene)
2) Azhagi (Oliyile song in the title & end credits)
- From: Vj (@ 61.11.76.28)
on: Fri Oct 4 02:14:25 EDT 2002
'Anjali anjali anjali' from Anjali had beautiful WCM interludes.
- From: yaaro (@ 195.93.50.7)
on: Fri Oct 4 07:18:47 EDT 2002
Vj,
that song is from avan oru sarithiram-just found it is available in dhool-put a search for en manadhu -it gives you the link.music is by MSV.
the resemblance is the first line only.
If this can be discounted by msv fans like OISG,then the resemblance of chittukuruvi song from chinna veedu to dvorak's symphony no.9 and chittikku song from nallavanukku nallavan with some other wcm bit can also be discounted-all the three last for exactly 5-10 seconds and then the tunes deviate totally.
- From: Vj (@ 61.11.77.158)
on: Sat Oct 5 08:25:25 EDT 2002
"Kanmani anbodu kaadhalan" - Guna... wonderful WCM oriented BG.
- From: Vj (@ 202.9.181.250)
on: Mon Oct 7 00:41:19 EDT 2002
the oldie classic "Andha naal nyabagam" had a good WCM oriented rhythm as well as string compositions.
- From: Awe (@ 65.69.56.43)
on: Mon Oct 7 01:26:34 EDT 2002
Poomalaiye Thol Serava has excellent WCM mix. One of my favorites.
- From: Mythila (@ )
on: Sat Apr 17 08:12:28 EDT 2004
Undoubtedly WCM bestows richness to a song and listening to it could be an experience. Listen to "Chinna poo chinna poo kannellam vannapoo" from Japanil Kalyanaraman. The opening bgm and the bgm in the interludes can sweep you off to some exotic locales .
"Kannil yenna kaar kaalam" from Un kannil neer vazhindhaal - again the opening bgm and interludes convey the tender , sensitive emotions between the lovers effectively.
There are so many which come to my mind like "Oho megam vandhadho"(Mouna raagam), "Aathaadi ammaadi then chittu dhaan"(Idhayathai thirudaathey") which are close to my heart (may be due to the WCM factor )
yaaro , "vazhi vidu" is from Paatu paadavaa. It is one helluva , complex composition and why on earth did IR decide to sing this one?
- From: Vj (@ 203.196.170.104)
on: Sun Apr 18 12:47:42 EDT 2004
"Enna solli paaduvadho" from En Mana Vaanil. Nice usage of strings.
"Strawberry kanney" from Minsaara kanavu.
- From: raguraam (@ 202.9.169.85)
on: Mon Apr 19 02:56:17 EDT 2004
a theme music in a old movie called athey kangal
- From: music-man (@ 61.1.200.178)
on: Tue Apr 20 04:34:08 EDT 2004
Even ARR had experimented in WCM-not the entire song but bits and pieces.
I think the following is in WCM style.
1)Veera paandi Kotaiyile-THIRUDA THIRUDA
2)Putham Puthu Bhoomi- same movie.
3)Bombay Theme Music-can be regarded as WCM
4)Opening music of Kaluri Salai-KAADAL DESAM.
5)Enna solla pogirai-one of the interludes-KANDU KONDEN^2
6)Strawberry-MINSARA KANAVU.
7)Pathu Pathu dhinam-UZHAVAN
8)Ore Chowri-(The interlude-I am in love).and many more.
- From: Vj (@ 203.196.170.104)
on: Tue Apr 20 11:57:47 EDT 2004
the second interlude in "Pudhu vellai mazhai" from Roja... the use of double bass and the subsequent flute.
- From: music-man (@ 61.1.201.122)
on: Tue Apr 20 23:59:53 EDT 2004
ARR had used some WCM based BGM in his movies particularly MAY MADHAM,ZUBEIDAA,WOHE etc etc.
Particularly in the movie MAY MADHAM watch out for the emotional scenes. Particularly when the heroine faints after she puts her hand in some statue‘s mouth and would be hospitalized and her father comes to take her away from the hero. The background music is entirely a moving WCM piece and this piece comes in the entire movie. This movie in particular had a very good peppy BGM.
If any one has this piece plz upload this or any links????
- From: Prasanna (@ 61.247.240.89)
on: Thu Apr 22 15:24:21 EDT 2004
this is a lame topic...WCM in film songs??....plz refer to 90 percent of work by the MAESTRO.
- From: Vj (@ 203.196.170.98)
on: Fri Apr 23 16:07:59 EDT 2004
"Desingu raaja" from DumDumDum.
- From: agneyen (@ 65.162.94.250)
on: Fri Apr 23 18:40:52 EDT 2004
When you talk about WCM ? The question naturally comes to mind is what constitutes western classical music. Is it specific instruments like violin.., Is it scale or chord pattern ? And How can a song have WCM flavour if answer to all above question is 'NO'.
If you say WCM is what was played by mozart , wagner ..etc then you can not say that a particular song has flavour of WCM unless it is copied or reused tune from those composers.
What IR composed so far is something totally new .
It is based on indian raaga using western instruments and notation system like scales.
if you look at the evolution in music in Europe from Chants -> Baroque to Classical.
WCM is an ERA which itself is divided in two areas first one is romantic area (hormonic music scales) which includes composer s like beethoven etc. where composing was done to bring out positive, romantic feelings ; second area is Era Negative ( non hormonic music scales ) which gets more deeper into negative emotions like fear..etc.
WCM area is considered to be ended in 20th century.
We don't have such areas as indian raaga is timeless science as it covers all human emotions
and attaches musical value ..
- From: Vj (@ 203.196.170.98)
on: Sat Apr 24 17:36:57 EDT 2004
good one agneyan.
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