Ilayaraaja's songs that can be turned into a purely

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Ilayaraaja's songs that can be turned into a purely Ilayaraaja's songs that can be turned into a purely
intrumental kind of music.

Topic started by R.Ravi (@ 202.54.35.138) on Fri Nov 14 12:25:01 EST 1997.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

Responses:

From: r.ravi (@ 202.54.35.138) on: Fri Nov 14 12:27:55 EST 1997

Hello everybody,
For a long time i have been analysing IR's songs, and came to a conclusion that, there are many of the songs that can be made purely instrumental. What i am trying to say here is that, there are lot of catchy songs that when turned into purely intrumental, will certainly please western ears and the like.Guys you need a lot of
imagination and you are free to add your bit of music in between to take off the south indian flavour that usually Raaja adds in his song.(Example , harmonium in the midst of
" Paruvame puthiya paadal.." from the film "Nenjathati killathae").Guys this is just a session of imagination and a sort of testing as to how much we understand Ilayaraaja's music.I usually do hum some songs without the lyrics and i wonder as to how beautiful it would have been
if it was done purely on a instrumental basis and released as a CD. So guys, let your imagination wild and do pour in your resposes. IR rasigargalae IR's vast repertoire of music lie buried in the echelons of tamil films good and bad. Of course the western world knows ILAYARAAJA, but only thru his western classical and fusion music.Ilayaraaja's best was squeezed
out in the 70's and 80's and these songs lay buried in the films that came along and hard to find cassettes. So please let us try to remember then and may be some of the unknown musical talents of our TFM guys may com to light.
Let us try to create a list of ILAYARAAJA songs in the lines of JAMES LAST AND PAUL MARIAUT.
From: Anand (@ galileo.ece.sc.edu) on: Sat Nov 15 00:10:20 EST 1997

I would begin with my favourite song..

Ennulle Ennulle pala minnal ezhum neram
Engengo Engengo pala minnal ezhum neram
Naan meimaranthu pada or varthai illai koora
Ethuvo mogam...?

This song is from VALLI and I guess everyone knows the situation which leads to the song. The confusions of the mind as beautifully portrayed by Maestro's music and the theme of the song seems to be the transition from the Confused to the Clear mind. Especially when the guitar piece begins after the violent but beautiful mridangam is noteworthy. Composer doesnt rely on the lyrics here in this song to convey his thoughts...though lyrics is also note worthy. Only such songs which are independent in existence... I mean which doesnt heavily back up on the lyrics can be drafted into pure instrumental.. I hope RAVI agrees with me. That is one reason why everone may find this as a Good piece to be converted into instrumental rather than SENTHAAZHAM POOVIL VANTHADUM THENDRAL... where in the lyricist bags the honor.
From: Anand (@ galileo.ece.sc.edu) on: Sat Nov 15 00:13:28 EST 1997

I am sorry I goofed up in typing the lyrics properly...

It is Ennulle Ennulle pala minnal ezhum neram
Engengo Engengo en ennam pogum thooram
Naan mei maranthu mara..............
and not the one I have typed earlier
From: r.ravi (@ 202.54.35.146) on: Sat Nov 15 07:38:25 EST 1997

HI ANAND,
What instrument do you think would be apt to play the main theme, a ensemble of violins or a bass flute ?
From: shankar (@ webgate2.mot.com) on: Sat Nov 15 09:18:57 EST 1997

I think U can also join the cello in the group of
instruments palying the lyrics part of it,since th esong is sung in a base voice throughout,but for some places(ex:....kaalamenra there aadidaamal nillu,ikkanaththai pOle inbam edhu sollu...)
From: Kanchana (@ ww-ta02.proxy.aol.com) on: Sat Nov 15 10:40:49 EST 1997

R.Ravi:
My knowledge of music is not vast enough to do full justice to your question, but let me venture in to mention an IR favorite of mine which I think will lend itself to good instrumental music.

The song is andhi mazhai pozhigiradhu from Raja Paarvai.

The song is based on Vasantha raagam. IR has already infused some symphonic touches in the interlude pieces. If at all anything needs to be "developed" it is the music for the charanams to substitute for the vocals and to give a richer tonality.

Overall, this song has a mood and music to it which is actually independent of the lyrics or movie situation, and will make a good fusion piece.
(In my personal opinion, the last statement holds for quite a few of IR's rich musical pieces.)

I'll leave it to the experts to talk about specific instruments etc.
From: r.ravi (@ 202.54.35.161) on: Sat Nov 15 12:42:07 EST 1997

HI Kanchana, nice to put in your thoughts here.C'mon, just dont worry about the experts, tell us what you think about. Moreover, the song you mentioned takes a fast pace after the intial start, so i think a violin section can do justice especially in the para " indira thotathu mundiriyae...", But the saranam part is a bit confusing , because of the humming part done by T.V.Gopalakrishnan, but then you can let your imagination loose.

To shankar :
Hi , Heavily into western music is it? Fine. How about the song "Kodai kala katrae.." from panner pushpangal played with a bass flute, and the bass flute which originally accompanies the song beinb replaced by a violin.
From: Chandrasekaran (@ proxyf10.cyberway.com.sg) on: Sat Nov 15 19:01:21 EST 1997

Kanchana,

The song, Andhi Mazhai Pozhigirathu, if I am not mistaken, is based on HAMSANANDHI raaga. Other songs in this raga are, Raathiriyil Poothirukkum Thaamarai Thaan pennO, Idhazhil Kadhai ezhudum Naeramidu (SPB has given his wonderful voice in this song) .

This raagam should not be confused with HamsaNaadham . The songs in HamsaNaadham are, Iravum Nilavum Malarattumae (karnan), Thendral Vandhu Ennai thodum, Sorgamae Endraalum Namooru pola varuma.

Ravi, Sorry to deviate from the topic.
From: RV (@ 1cust8.max14.san-francisco.ca.ms.uu.net) on: Sun Nov 16 14:21:16 EST 1997

There is a not so popular song in Moondram Pirai viz.

"Vannengum Thanga Vinmeengal Vizhi Imai Mooda Sooriyan Vandhu Kadal Kulittherum Neram"

I always thought it would be nice to play this on a piano or a keyboard...
From: PINCHI SRINIVASAN (@ 1cust53.max40.new-york.ny.ms.uu.net) on: Sun Nov 16 21:47:40 EST 1997

Hi, I am Pinchi Srinivasan a great fan of IR with very very little knowledge about the clasical raagas. Like "Valli"s song ,the song from "Aruvadai Naal" 'Devnin Kovil' by Chitra and Thalaivar himself can be a greart piece for instrumental adaptation. The kannada song from "Geeta" 'Jotheyali jothe jotheyali' which was later composed by Thalaivar for a tamil movie "Nooravadu Naal" 'Vizhiyile undan vizhiyil' is another master piece.How about "Adhi Kaalai nerame" from 'Meendum Oru Kaadhal kadhai"?
From: NOV (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Sun Nov 16 23:02:38 EST 1997

R. Ravi - I think one of the best songs for the situation you have provided would be the following song. I can imagine how the song would be in full orchestration. Wow! Heavenly violin piece! Since the song is too beautiful to merely mention, here are the complete lyrics:

kalyaana maalai kondaadum pennae en paattaik kaelu unmaigal solvaen
suruthiyoadu layam poalavae inaiyaagum thunaiyaagum samsaara sangeedhamae
(kalyaana maalai)

vaalibangal oadum vayadhaagakkoodum anaalum anbu maaraadhammaa
maalaiyidum sondham mudipoatta bandham pirivennum sollae ariyaadhammaa
azhagaana manaivi anbaana thunaivi adaindhaalae paerinbamae
madimeedhu thuyila sarasangal payila moagangal aarambamae
nalla manaiyaalin naesam oru koadi nenjamenum veenai paadumae thoadi
sandhoasha saamraajyamae...
(kalyaana maalai)

koovuginra kuyilaik koottukkul vaiththu paadenru sonnaal paadaadhammaa
soalaimayil thannai siraivaiththup pootti aadenru sonnaal aadaadhammaa
naaldhoarum rasigan paaraattum kalainjan kaavalgal enakkillaiyae
soagangal enaakum nenjoadu irukkum sirikkaadha naalillaiyae
thukkam silanaeram pongivarumboadhum makkal manampoalae paaduvaen kannae
en soagam ennoadudhaan...
(kalyaana maalai)
From: shankar (@ webgate2.mot.com) on: Mon Nov 17 01:24:59 EST 1997

This song from "solla thudikuthu manasu"
"poove sempoove un vaasam varum...." is by itself has a rich interludes (first one-veena follwed by tabla and a violins).I think it'd make a great instrumental if the vocals r replaced by IR's favourite-violins.
RV
Atlast I found one person admiring the great (not so popular number).I have the instrumental version of this song from moonram pirai where the vocals r replaced by acoustic guitar.It's just grrrrreaaat!!!
ravi
I think the one suggested by U for kodai kala kAtre is apt.
From: Pagalavan (@ batboy.cisco.com) on: Mon Nov 17 10:35:57 EST 1997

EthO mOgam from kOzhi koovuthu is a great song for instrumental. This song itself is very rich in composition and it would be great if the vocals are replaced with the flute (the same piece which comes in the beginning of the song for the first two lines).

Another song that comes to mind is Oh..butterfly from meera. I think its good for keyboard/piano.

NOV, thanks for the complete lyrics.
From: Kanchana (@ ww-tc06.proxy.aol.com) on: Mon Nov 17 13:58:10 EST 1997

R.Ravi:
Yes, I'd go with your violin suggestion for the lyrics part, accompanied by the strings section in the background. The background strings can be varied in richness so that the saranams don't sound "flat" throughout, and to blend the saranams in smoothly with the interludes. TVG's soulful humming is a critical component of this piece to set the mood, and needs to stand out from the strings section--flute? bass flute? (experts, pls forgive me!)

Shankar:
Include me in as a fan of that Moondram Pirai song--we discussed this under "IR & the Guitar" thread. I'm curious re the instrumental you have--(how) does it differentiate between SPB/SJ lines and the chorus part?
SPB/SJ Lines:
vaan engum thanga viN meengaL
vizhi imai mooda
sooriyan vandhu kadal kuLithaerum naeram
vaan engilum DeepavaLi
naam paadalam Geetanjali
DeepavaLi & Geetanjali are sung as a chorus in the song.
From: shankar (@ webgate7.mot.com) on: Tue Nov 18 00:20:55 EST 1997

Kanchana,
It doesn't differentiate between SPB and SJ,but it goes to a bit higher pitch to give a subtle difference.
A small correction in ur lyrics,
it's "vaanil oru deepavali" and not "vaan eningilum".
and in the begenning of the second interlude spb starts with "tha tha thu thu thadududuttu..." that piece is replaced by drums (not the conventional drum).
From: NOV (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Tue Nov 18 03:37:16 EST 1997

Pagalavan - I'm glad you enjoyed Kalyaana Maalai. It is one of the ultimates in IR's compositions. In the same movie, Puthu Puthu Arthangal, there is yet another gem - Keiladi kanmani, paadagan sangathi, that is also rich with orchestrations. I believe that it would also turn into a great instrumental piece.
Hmmmm (sigh)! I am really yearning for such treasures from IR again!
From: Kanchana (@ ww-td65.proxy.aol.com) on: Tue Nov 18 10:13:24 EST 1997

Shankar:
Thank you. What instrument replaces SJ's dreamy humming in the beginning?
From: Amar (@ worf.qntm.com) on: Tue Nov 18 11:36:29 EST 1997

Hi:
The song from "Ninaivellaam Nithya" is another good candidate for "intrumentalization"

Panivizhum Malarvanam Unn Paarvai Oruvanam
Inivarum Munivarum Thadumaarum Kanivanam

As such, the song has excellent orchestration with beautiful guitar pieces. One of my favorites!

I think, if we can add some heavy metal electric guitar for the Saranam of the song and for the other portions of the vocal, can substitute violin. I prefer electric guitar for the saranam because of the way that piece is rendered as compared to the vocal in the middle of the song where it flows smoothly.
From: r.ravi (@ 202.54.35.167) on: Tue Nov 18 13:38:49 EST 1997

Mr. Pagalavan:
The song you mentioned "Edho mogam.." was infact appreciated by Paul Mariaut, during raaja's visit to paris.Here again ,what we thought was a folk song when heard with western ears sounds different is it ?
From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.9) on: Wed Nov 19 23:01:58 EST 1997

Chandrasekaran

anthi mazai is based on vasantha and ithazil kathai on Lalitha. Please do not ask me to justify my claims. These are just info which I got. Can you please verify.
From: Chandrasekaran (@ palo4.pacific.net.sg) on: Thu Nov 20 19:36:44 EST 1997

Aravind,

The swaras (notes) taken by Lalitha and Vasantha are the same. The Hamsanandhi raagam takes the same swaras as Lalitha and Vasantha except for M. Hamsanandhi uses M2(pradhi madhyam) whereas Lalitha / Vasantha uses M1(suddha madyam). IR has used both M1 and M2 in those songs liberally.
Hence it is difficult to say whether it is Lalitha or Hamsanandhi. As the tune is more towards Hamsanandhi, I referred those songs to Hamsanandhi.
From: Ravi (@ greed.cs.umass.edu) on: Thu Nov 20 19:43:43 EST 1997

Let me add my bit to it... The name of the heroine in 'unnal mudiyum thambi' is lalitha. So IR is supposed to have composed that song in that ragam.
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Thu Nov 20 20:22:09 EST 1997

Ennappa solre Chandra..

Vasantha - janyam of Suryakantam (uses D2)
Lalitha - janyam of MMgowla (uses D1)

This is an important and the distinguishing factor between these two ragas.
Also, in vasantha, R1 is used only on the descent. (This usage is a truly wonderful. Listen to Semmangudi.)

Pl don't compare them with Hamsanandhi. The M2
is enough to differentiate the two, world apart.
Sorry if i sound flaunting... This is the truth.

I found in some other thread, you mentioned
senjuruti is a janyam of S.baranam. Sorry
again.. it's a janyam of Harikambhoji(uses N2).
From: Chandrasekaran (@ palo6.pacific.net.sg) on: Thu Nov 20 22:23:56 EST 1997

Rajaram

You may be right. As majority of film songs are not based on pure raagas (especially these two songs), the arguments on Raagas will definitely arise. My views are based on the following books

1. RaagaBhavartham (by Natyacharya Rajoo)
2. Carnatic Raags (by Dr. Bhagya Lakshmi)

The first books says Lalitha and Vasantha are the same raagas but after a period of time, musicians started to diffrenciate. This book is available in Libraries.

I agree with your view on Senjuriti.
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Fri Nov 21 00:28:10 EST 1997

Chandra

Pl come to "Raga of the song please" for
further discussions.
From: shankar (@ webgate3.mot.com) on: Mon Dec 1 01:11:45 EST 1997

All songs from GURU can be made a purely instrumental (in fact ,they'll be better without lyrics) I haven't thought of what instruments we need to substitute for vocals in these songs .

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