Lyrics in songs of IR compared to rehman

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Lyrics in songs of IR compared to rehman Lyrics in songs of IR compared to rehman

Topic started by karthik (@ 207.78.88.252) on Mon Jan 26 18:41:30 EST 1998.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

Responses:

From: karthik (@ 207.78.88.252) on: Mon Jan 26 18:56:19 EST 1998

I would like to know your opinion of the above mentioned topic. I personally feel that Rehmans songs carry more meaning when compared to IR's. I agree that rehman has his own measure of abathams like muqabla and barotta. But on the whole I think his song's lyrics carry more meaning than IR. Even in some IR's songs that do not have these bethal words the meaning seems to be so stupid. For eg, in the movie Idhayakovil the song"idhayam oru koyil" has a terribly flawed logic. In one stanza the hero says"unadhu padhai enadhu padhai onru dhanamma. In the next line he contradicts himself by saying" desaigal onru aana podhum padhai veramma" or something in that meaning( I am not sure about the exact wordings).
I find this total lack of respect for lyrics in many IR songs.
From: Arvind (@ nhv-ct3-22.ix.netcom.com) on: Mon Jan 26 20:26:55 EST 1998

what has music dir to do with lyrics, unless they explictly write lyrics, ur topic shud have been, vali vs vairamuthu or etc. etc.i vehementl;y protest this topic.
they might b wrong in choosing the lyrists, but r not responsible for lyrics.
sorry if i am harsh
From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on: Mon Jan 26 22:02:43 EST 1998

Arvind:

I think you are very wrong. I feel the MD can strongly dictate how
lyrics come out. MSV was one person who was very adamant that the
lyrics for his songs came out aptly and beautifully. He exactly
knew how to extract the best out of lyricists. In a very friendly,
and yet stubborn fashion (many times he even had friendly fights
with Kannadhasan and Vaali) he challenged them and brought out
great lyrics for movie-situations. Also, his orchestrations were always
such that lyrics stood out beautifully without any hindrance. KVM had a
different method. Although he was known to have been "not-so-friendly"
with lyricists (e.g., tiffs with Vaali) he gave tremendous importance
to lyrics and made sure that they stood out prominently; by
giving absolute freedom to lyricists to pen the lines appropriate
for movie-situations, he made sure that lyrics came out really well.
That's why, it's no wonder that MSV's and KVM's songs are a class
apart when it comes to lyrics; songs created by these two are incomparable
(with respect to lyrics standing-out proudly) with songs made by
any other MD.
From: vijay (@ ryan.ece.sc.edu) on: Mon Jan 26 23:23:44 EST 1998

i feel that both IR's songs and rahman's songs had their own share of junk lyrics.but the disturbing trend of using english words has been seen more with rahman's songs.cellular phones,
computers etc.are only a few to name and these might soon be followed by songs with lyrics like

"naan ORACLE endral en kaathaliye
nee thaan enakku POWERBUILDER "

in the near future!
and i agree with sathyakeerthi in that the MD can interfere and request to change the lyrics if he wants or can point out some mistakes.i think IR himself has written some decent songs for films like raajadhi raaja.perhaps the IR-vairamuthu tiff had something to do with lyrics?

vijay
From: Bhaskar (@ ww-ta02.proxy.aol.com) on: Tue Jan 27 00:08:07 EST 1998

Karthik:

Neenga enna ore oru IR song vachhu, I think ARR songs carry more meaning when compared to IR's appdinnu general-aa comment adikkireenga. IR songs also has songs that are excellent in Lyrics, ARR songs also has some songs that are excellent in Lyrics. But the volume of IR songs are innumerable when compared with ARR.

Offlate, I feel that in ARR songs, lyrics are given less importance and hence less meaning, because ARR concentrates more on the Beats, Rhythms, Percussions, Special Sound Effects etc rather than Lyrics.

For Ex, if you take

Ratchagan

Soniyaa Soniyaa
Bombay Madras Delhi
Pogum Idamellam
Lucky Lucky naan Lucky, Kaadhal Insurance
Mercury Pookkal, Rangeela Maangal

all of these songs are written for the sake of writing, no meanings.

But I agree with you that some songs of ARR too has very good meanings atleast to the current generation youngsters, if not for older generation people like me :-)

For Ex.

Minsara Kanavu
Vennilavae Vennilavae vinnai thandi varuvaaya
Poo pookum Osai adhai katkkathaan aasai

Iruvar

NarumugaiyaE narumugaiyaE
Pookodiyin punnagai

Kaadhal Desam
Anbae enai kaana villaiyae nEtrodu

Indha maadiri IR paadal list seidhaal enakku romba naal vaendum, adhanaal mattravargalukku ezhudha vaaippu kudukkuraen.
From: SATHIYAVAGEESWARAN (@ client-151-200-125-86.bellatlantic.net) on: Tue Jan 27 00:17:53 EST 1998

Most of Raja's hit songs were due to his music. Personally I feel that the lack of quality lyrics in many songs are due to his high productivity. To dictate lyrics for 200 songs in an year is impossible. But when he worked with good directors like Barathiraja, balachandar they took care of lyrics by concentrating on them.
From: MSK (@ dhcp-877019741.qualcomm.com) on: Tue Jan 27 02:29:37 EST 1998

Karthik.,

I don't find any contradiction in that Idaya Kovil Song Lyric. The lyric is " paathai onru aana pothum , thisaihal veramma " ...Plain simple !!
From: go_slow (@ bones.deneb.com) on: Tue Jan 27 09:18:15 EST 1998

S.Vageeswaran ic correct about the "soso" lyrics
in IR songs - due to his productivity.

During his peak period, IR was highly excited,
never cared about anything/anybody - hyper state.
He didn't care whether it was Ramarajan/Mohan/...
He closed himself from the rest of the world.
Instead he would have been slow - enjoy life -
concentrate on producing good lyric-ed songs
and be consistent. Somehow NUMBER got into him.
He had the control of everything about movies -
but he missed it.

BUT ARR is NOT doing the same mistake - for
HIPPI-HYPI songs, he dosn't care about lyrics
but for melodies he seems to wait/modify/adjust
till he gets proper lines.

Read the last week's Anandavikatan about ARR by VM.
(Vaali has made similar comment about ARR in his book)
From: Gopal (@ 1cust63.tnt1.sarasota.fl.gt.uu.net) on: Tue Jan 27 13:14:57 EST 1998

Firstly, this topic is relating to IR and ARR!!

Just listen to songs from NAdOdi thendral wherein lyrics are by IR! Great ones!! If IR were to continue with lyrics too, then many lyricists would have had to look out for different avocations. e la Kapil Dev of tfm!!!
From: pg (@ gate02.merck-medco.com) on: Tue Jan 27 13:57:07 EST 1998

TO Sathiya Keerthi :

What you sait is very true. But then they had Kaviyarasu Kannadhasan and a competitive vAli to work with. (This is not an excuse; I am just pointing out the quality of lyricists).

IR for sometime had VM to work with and the songs of IR-VM period are very good though they will not equal MSV-KK combination.

ARR is actually the loser here; all he gets is a jaded Vairamuthu who keeps churning out his 'list' songs.

This is not to compare IR and ARR or any other composer. I find today's lyrics quite appalling. The changing times are also a reason. There are songs now which list non-veg items, amman names and now newspaper names.

Vairamuthu and vAli are over the hill and I haven't heard a decent song from them for a long time. This includes songs of the 'resurgent' VM songs with ARR.

pazhani bhaarathi has done a good job in kAdhalukku mariyAdhai.
From: srikanth (@ 200.minneapolis-06.mn.dial-access.att.net) on: Tue Jan 27 21:28:57 EST 1998

Hi Friends,

Basically no MDs will want their song to be valgur.
The directors/producers demand such lyrics because this will enable them to shoot some dance sequence which will fecth money.

MDS cannot ask a lyricist to change the lyric much Does the lyricist have right to ask the MDS to change score - no likewise they cannot ask the lyricist to do so.
Lyricist also due to the pressure from the producers put some valgur words in the song,
even though they can write better.

This did not happen for MSV because he had a genius as his lyricist - Kanadasan
The producers and directors were more considerate in those days.

It is Ar/Raja/Deva no one can be blamed for this.
AR songs sound good because he put his foot down to say about the lyrics.
IR was also doing it but some but due to his work load he could not give attention to it.

Srikanth
From: karthik (@ 207.78.88.252) on: Wed Jan 28 09:25:12 EST 1998

give me a break! Is IR so ignorant that he cant understand vulgar lyrics. At his peak he virtually dictated the directors and producers. Still he didnt do anything to correct this depravity.
From: Srikanth (@ 254.minneapolis-06.mn.dial-access.att.net) on: Wed Jan 28 19:13:03 EST 1998

Hi,
Karthick:
You did not get what I meant, IR had better work to do rather than fighting with the lyricists.
How were you able to imagine that I told raja does not understand such lyrics...!,
I did not put much about Raja.

Movie is a business, producers are the key..
All of them work on the basis of feed back from the public relation persons in the field. Raja also falls in this group.

I agree with you on one..., He did not do much regarding lyrics though he could have done something about it.

Srikanth
From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.219) on: Wed Jan 28 20:05:06 EST 1998

every MD has his own share of good and bad versed songs.blaming IR is foolish.some of his songs like illaya nila had in fact the best lyrics ever.well,if u see songs with junk lyrics too then that's because he was making 30 films a year!!
i do not agree with some who have written that ARR's songs sound better!some of his songs are utter trash!look at the lyrics of 'petai rap' or
'soniya' or 'telephone'.u can find atleast 3 songs like this in each of his film.and he hardly composes for 5 films a year!so i do not think anyone
gives a damn about lyrics nowadays. so please do not give 1 or 2 examples like 'chinna chinna aasai' and say ARR's lyrics sound better.in fact
his songs have brought on the disturbing trend of mixing english words like 'computer, ''hardware','love attack' etc.and i said before we may see words like 'frontend' or 'backend' or PB or oracle soon in his songs!these people think that by mixing these english words they can appeal
to the modern day younsters and make the lyrics more catchy and they end up making mess of the song.IR's song 'all the time' had english words in it,but the words were needed since an english girl is singing the song in the film and the song by itself was melodious and made subha popular.there might be perhaps very few songs like 'megam megam' from anjali that had englih words in it,but not to the extent that is being used today.

vijay
From: karthik (@ 207.78.88.252) on: Thu Jan 29 11:57:49 EST 1998

I think english words are better than mukkal munagals!!
From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.214) on: Thu Jan 29 12:26:14 EST 1998

mukkals and munagals cannot be considered as lyrics!they form part of a song and are added to give the effect needed for the song .the seduction songs of IR are remembered very well even after 15 years or so!

vijay
From: Guru (@ 207.220.88.25) on: Thu Jan 29 17:42:44 EST 1998

Can somebody please explain if Iam missing something in finding logic in this song from kaadhal Desam - Anbe..nan kaana...

"Meyyaagha nee ennai virumbaadha podhum..
Poi ondru sol kanne..en jeevan vaazhum..
Nijam undhan kaadhal endraal.."

If her love is true, why should she lie?

Iam writing this under this thread b'coz of lyrics in ARR's songs.

Guru.
From: RV (@ nat-20.avanticorp.com) on: Thu Jan 29 18:59:03 EST 1998

Guru:
The guy is simply saying "If you dont say you love me, I am going to die. So even if you dont love, to save me from my death, say that you love me."

You can find an echo in the Hindi song starring Dev Anand and Hemamalini in Johnny Mera Naam;

"Pal Bhar Ke Liye Koi Mujhe Pyaar Kar Le
Jhottaa Bhi Sahi"
From: Amar (@ worf.qntm.com) on: Fri Jan 30 12:56:34 EST 1998

Guru:
I see what you mean. That there is a contradiction in the beginning and ending lines of those 3 lines.

It sounds like the hero singing:

Even if you don't truly love me, please lie hat you do love me just to make me live if your love is TRUE

That is contradicting or rather a paradox just like:

The following Line is FALSE;
The Above Line is TRUE;

But, you can split the 3 lines as follows and then, it probably makes sense. I am not trying to defend any lyricist and I am not even sure if the lyricist realizes that he made a paradox or not;
But, just look at the following explanation and see if it makes any sense:

Meyyaa Nee Yennai Virumbaathabothum
Poi Onru Sol Kanney, Yenn Jeevan Vaazhum;
Nijam Unthan Kaathal Yenraal....

could be saying,

Even if you don't TRULY love me, just lie that you do, just to make me love;
But, if your LOVE is TRUE....( then what is stopping you (is probably implied) )

May be Maybe Not!
From: Guru (@ 207.220.88.25) on: Fri Jan 30 21:23:30 EST 1998

RV:
Thats what the first two lines mean! and the third line totally contradicts this!
Amar:
Nice to see that our songs make us think like this!!
BTW, Are you working in San Jose Quantum?
From: Amar (@ worf.qntm.com) on: Mon Feb 2 09:41:48 EST 1998

Guru:
No, I work for Quantum in Shewwbury, Massachusetts.

Did you see what I meant in my explanation? Yes, our songs whether or not intended, make us wonder!!!

Sorry, I had made a couple of typos:

"Meyyaa" should have been "Meyyaaga"
"just to make me love" should be "just to make me LIVE"
From: N. VENKATACHALAM (@ palo7.pacific.net.sg) on: Tue Feb 16 23:51:59 EST 1999

It was interesting to read the hole topic. But I feel that presently ARR is in a state like IR when IR composed songs like ORAMBO and Yenna Pattu pada which was to say the least ridiculous. May be ARR shall come down soon to the earth. Hey guys dont u think the world is one full round when u find that IR is presently in a state like MSV when IR toppled him in the seventies. Hmm every dog has its day. regards

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