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MKT -> MSV -> Illayaraja -> ??

Gee guys,

"Who will succeed Illayaraja?" is the question I have tried to address.
To find an answer I have given my critical analysis of one factor that
appears to have challenged the Maestro's dominance in the Tamil Film
Music. The irony, as you will see, is that Raja himself was responsible
for it! (I can't keep the suspence until the climax, so my friends don't
watch movies which I have seen).

Topic started by S.S.Vasan (@ 202.54.37.18) on Wed Feb 25 11:04:33 EST 1998.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: other_sider (@ bones.deneb.com) on: Mon Mar 2 04:33:42 EST 1998
  
  Madhan:
  
  What are you saying to the thread's question,
  MKT -> MSV -> IR -> ??
  the ?? after IR is ARR who has a better understanding of the
  economics of India along with his music talents.
  
  Good answer.
  
  I liked your theory (though I couldn't understand the crux - I was able to get the overall picture)
  AS You have correctly pointed out, "ADJUSTABILITY is EDUCABILITY"
  IR is NOT able to copeup with the changes/trends/makkaL's taste and
  ARR has done a GREAT job in understanding all the changes
  and is learning and doing a great job. Good Theory, Madhan.
  
  Who could be that ?? other than ARR "AFTER" IR, afterall.
  
  I knew Vincent Van Gough, was NOT at all flexible
  and was NOT ready to change/experiment new things
  (may be he was scared) and died STUBBORNLY for art!!! You are again correctly pointed out that IR doing the same.
  
  HOPE IR would wake up and be flexible and experiment/match himself with current trend.
  
  As you said "IR has shown the way to other Indians" - be flexible, don't be closed to a circle,
  comeout and experiment.
  
  Kudos, Madhan
  
  
• From: MSK (@ dhcp-877019741.qualcomm.com) on: Mon Mar 2 12:38:17 EST 1998
  
  Hello Other-Sider .,
  
  Are u serious saying IR is not flexible and he is not ready to experiment in MUSIC like Van Gough.??? IR has done so many new stuff that others have not even imagined. Sindhu Bairavi, HTNI are just a few examples..I don't want to say anything more as people would come up and say stop u'r IR puranam ;-)
  
  
  
• From: bs (@ www1.access.bt.com) on: Mon Mar 2 15:41:32 EST 1998
  
  If flexibility means recycling,copying,using horrible singers,dishing out dappanguthu songs in Western mould etc.. etc..., I will pray IR die as stubborn as VanGogh...
  
  
• From: MSK (@ dhcp-877019741.qualcomm.com) on: Mon Mar 2 15:49:11 EST 1998
  
  BS.,
  
  Well put !!
  
  
• From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Mon Mar 2 15:55:22 EST 1998
  
  Stripping music out of your analysis, Madhan, you have done a
  great job in "describing" the middle-class mental "culture" that of
  present day urban India. Excellent work.
  
  
• From: suresh (@ bellbird.qut.edu.au) on: Wed Mar 4 06:32:13 EST 1998
  
  hi,
  i think we're taking the discussion out of context
  by saying that IR is not flexible, and that he ought to make music like ARR does. we've got to understand that art follows a cycle, and that public perceptions differ and are dynamic. If you consider the 30-40 age group of people who're ardent listeners of tamil music and conduct a poll among them, a majority would vote for IR. similarly, the 50 & above (most likely) would plump for MSV and below 30s would scream themselves hoarse by saying ARR is undisputable. it's a matter of generations; u can't expect IR to compose music that today's youth want. he's certainly aged and his tastes in music differ from
  the techno-pop-rock that's today's vogue. ARR is most probably the successor to the MSV-IR lineage because he produces what contemporary youth want; another 10 years and you'll find another talent emerging and ARR will fall by the wayside. isn't it phenomenal, therefore, that IR has stood his ground for almost 3 decades (almost a generation)
  and that he deserves all credit for still experimenting and being creative?
  
  
• From: Arun (@ internet1.ford.com) on: Wed Mar 4 07:57:59 EST 1998
  
  Suresh:
  
  I can't agree with you more.
  
  - Arun.
  
  
• From: MAdhan (@ 202.41.117.3) on: Wed Mar 4 09:37:25 EST 1998
  
  Dear Mr.Other_sider,
  
  I am not saying that IR can't experiment - "Pottu vaithha kaadhal thittam ok kanmani", or,"kokkarakko kozhi " from Kalaignan were absolute jazz beauties - mind you, they are original works - ARR can never do that - watch Robin Hood : Prince of Thieves - the BGM is used in Duet's " Vennilaavil theril yeri " by ARR- again Mozart's Symphony no:40 theme bit is used as the second interlude in "Vennilavey vennilavey " by ARR - listen to this song particularly and then listen to Mozart's piece - in fact the same music was copied by Salil Chowdhury for the tune of a Hindi song itself -"Ithna mujhe ......awaara".
  
  IR doesn't have to resort to such cheap tactics - one thing is sure - at this rate, ARR will not survive - because other MDs like Deva, Anu Malik , Viju Shah are coming up with equally well-flicked songs - not to say that ARR is not talented - but, he is not making the right amount of effort that is required - " ippadi music pottaal podhum " yendru ninaikkiraar.
  
  DO NOT WORRY, IR WILL RULE OVER THE NEXT 10 YEARS OR SO.THEN WE CAN WORRY ABOUT THE NEXT MD.
  
  
• From: S.S. Vasan (@ 202.54.37.18) on: Wed Mar 4 13:16:48 EST 1998
  
  Hi Madhan, Suresh, 'Other sider' and friends
  
  Thanks for all your comments. Esp., Madhan your economic analysis has added "value" to my ideas
  in parts 1 and 2. It is clear that IR is capable
  of giving fast numbers and jazz, but he is not
  doing it just to keep up the market. (His market
  anycase has not fallen - only his popularity amongst the youth). Though ARR was helped by the
  middle class mood change + side-effects of the
  economic liberalization, he must give more melodies and original numbers to be remembered after a decade (and to become IR's successor).
  Incidentally, is IR trying to reach 1000 film mark and is he planning to retire from the film industry after that? Has he ever talked (in any interview) about his 'retirement' from active film music direction?
  
  Anbudan,
  Vasan
  
  
• From: Nithin Sreedevan (@ nc.pr.mcs.net) on: Wed Mar 4 14:12:18 EST 1998
  
  Folks, there can be no greater devotee of Raja on this earth than I. But, I have to tell you ARR has made a mark with revolutionary compositions in Ratchagan, Minsara Kanavu and Iruvar. Even Raja has not dared to expirement to this level what ARR has done and very successfully. Just as IR's market was the migrant and hardworking middle class people from villages and the young cities, looking for their sounds of thier roots during the innocent 70s and 80s, it is now the turn of ARR, who has got a totally new audience. The audience are mostly rich, very young, volatile, sex oriented and yearn to be very western in outlook, not folkish like you and me.
  
  Therefore, today's IR is ARR, whose music I have begun to like only very recently, because the songs from the 3 movies mentioned are just too much and even Raja has not tried that IDIOM so far.
  
  It is not that Raja cannot do it, it is just that folk and jazz are poles apart. Jazz is slower, longer melodies and has rhythm and JAZZ.
  
  I welcome ARR as the new IR, not just for Indian music but international music.
  
  Having heard the best music, ARR has gained my appreciation of his music, but after 5 years.
  
  
  
• From: suresh (@ bluebird.qut.edu.au) on: Wed Mar 4 21:56:00 EST 1998
  
  hi nithin,
  to contradict u, IR has tried much more experimenting than ARR can ever imagine; recent examples - "thendral vandhu" from avatharam, "vandhal vandhal" from oru oorile oru raajakumari, "enthan nenjil" from kalaignan, songs in guru, siraichaalai, yaathramozhi etc. its a pity that one doesn't appreciate classical experimentation, but thinks any tinkering with technopop/rock.. is only relevant. from the 3 movies u've quoted, i can think of only iruvar being diff. with "narumugaye" one of the best ARR compositions. i feel that "thiruda thiruda" was easily the best ARR has ever attempted, and its failure would have desisted him from attempting similar stuff. IR did not have the tremendous media pull that exists today (regional TV fusing with national; regional film-makers going national) u can today change a 20 channels and have "sonia sonia" blaring out in 10 out of them, and over time, u'll get used to the tune sub-consciously. in communication theory, they call it "repetition gaining short-time relevance". if you're given a choice today will u care to listen to ARRs "gentleman" (5 years old) or IRs johnny (15 years?). hundreds of IRs songs will stand the test of time decades from now; ARR has just a handful to add to that list. he can count himself up there with IR probably 10 years later, if he can achieve atleast a part of what IR did.
  
  
• From: suresh (@ bowerbird.qut.edu.au) on: Thu Mar 5 04:48:40 EST 1998
  
  Nithin,
  your "rich, youngish, volatile, sexy & western"
  audience is limited to probably 1% of the total
  tamil population in india & worldwide (besant nagar to boston!). again, the MTV generation of today will be ashamed to admit that they listen to
  "Tamil" film music! so much for their appreciation! this audience is temporary, much like ARRs songs - from mustafa to sonia,sonia its just a matter of months before they fade out - and to compose music with just these folks in mind is a situation created by today's megacrore oriented
  movies that are made for all-india audiences. nithin, are u ashamed of hardworking, middle class people who like folk or classical music, or are u
  just trying to justify ur newfound appreciation of ARRs music. as i've mentioned in a diff thread reg
  a similar issue, u are expecting sivaji to dance like prabhudeva b'cos thats what the teenyboppers want. IR, with no urban background & no experience
  of recording technologies (which ARR has been privileged to have since his childhood), created fusion wonders in his earliest films (priya...)& made them reach far & wide despite the absence of satellite TV. he could compose a "putham pudhu kaalai" in the same movie as "vaadi en kappakizhange" (alaigal oyvathillai) and make each of them as popular as ever with the rich & poor, urban & rural, young & old alike. no offence meant to ARR, i really like some of his songs (narumugaiye, thoda thoda malarndhadhu..) but can only mention about a dozen of his songs that i would be hearing even after some months. comparing him with IR who brings the same kind of magic to his music even if its a 20 year old song is very insensitive. ARR has a long, long way to go; karthik raaja has to travel double the distance of ARR to get there as well!
  
  
  
  

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