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Why is the music industry in India differs greatly from Europe, USA and Canada...??

Topic started by Theepan (@ 209.197.166.181) on Wed May 7 09:36:25 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

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• From: naan sense (@ 65.176.169.56) on: Tue May 13 01:31:32 EDT 2003
  
  Theepan you are a lost asole. You heard the song aattukutti muttai ittu kozhi kunji vandathu ena? that is a song with soul, also you will recognize sounds in the song similar to sounds coming from the depths of your soul. check it out, ahole ;--) you have any relatives in the forum? how you post here without connections? ;---)
  
  
• From: Raj (@ 206.97.63.112) on: Tue May 13 01:47:03 EDT 2003
  
  MumRamki, Bernstein was also composer for movies,ballet and his own symphony. He was composer and conductor for some symphonies. But,most people know him as a conductor.
  
  
• From: Raj (@ ) on: Tue May 20 20:58:23 EDT 2003
  
  Musical talent in the west (US).
  I said something about music in schools upto secondary schools. What happens outside these schools? There are about 200 classical orchestras in US. Add to this, youth orchestras,youth bands,youth choirs and other professional bands etc, you have hundreds of musical groups. Even professional orchestras allow high school students to perform with them. The schools also encourage students to compose and present their music to professionals. In colleges there are bands and orchestras. There is one college in Oberlin,Ohio which has produced so many bands and musicians that these students are making a mark in New York City's Rock band scene. The college is called Oberlin College and has a well-known music dept (conservatory). Even though it is a college of arts and sciences, you see more than 15 bands in that college. It is the size of Loyola (may be larger -3000 students). Now, can we name any college in Tamilnadu with that kind of musical talent? It is economic necessity that prevents students taking up music. You have to study all the time in high school to get into one of the top colleges and get a 'free' seat. When you are in college, you have to spend all the time to do well to ' go to America' . So, once again, it is our concern about economic security and the parents' attitude which gives priority to getting into professional colleges. The effect is what you see in music industry - cinema and cinema only. More later.
  
  
• From: Raj (@ 206.97.63.112) on: Tue May 20 22:52:39 EDT 2003
  
  MORE ON MUSICAL TALENT IN US : There are about 1800 colleges/universities offering music for a degree or just allowing students to take a few courses. The total enrollment in music collges is about 318000 (three lakhs). That tells you why there are so many musicians and music groups. How can they afford it? After high school a child selects whatever discipine he/she wants, not engineering and medicine. In fact, US produces less engineers than Tamilnadu. The engineering graduates coming out of US colleges is less than 70000. I am told Tamilnadu produces about 75000. Now you know why there are so many H1 visas. If parents can support the child they do. Otherwise, the child depends on scholarships,loans and part-time work. No talented kid is denied higher education. How do they do it in high school? Music lessons cost 30 to 50 dollars an hour. But the teacher will teach free for the poor and loan instruments. A parent need not buy a new piano costing 5 or 6 thousand dollars. They can rent it. Or buy a used one for as low as 500 dollars. If the parent sees musical talent in the child he/she makes sure that child gets the opportunity. One shining example of freedom to choose is Night Shymalan. HIs parents are doctors. Yet, he did not become a doctor. He became a movie director and came close to winning the Oscar. Imagine what would have happened,if the parents forced him to take up medicine. Imagine how many in Tamilnadu we have lost to engineering and medicine and other fields. They say Mathematics and music are related. We are known for our mathematical skills. Why is it we have a shortage of musical skills? You know the answer.Economic necessity and attitude.
  LIMITED VOCABULARY? Not quite! Just visit the following websites:
  www.towerrecords.com
  This is the website for Tower Records,one of the largest music stores. The claim to stock 450000 music albums. Even their smalles store carries 45to 50 thousand albums in a 10000 square feet store. Of course this includes international music.
  www.live365.com
  This is a website for internet radio. You can listen to all kinds of music. Just look at what US has to offer-classical, jazz, blue, country,R & B etc. In fact there are radio stations just for classical music, just for country music and so on. Limited vocabulary? Certainly not!!!
  More later...
  
  
• From: narayanan (@ 67.208.123.85) on: Wed May 21 00:07:40 EDT 2003
  
  raj i do agree that we ppl in india do not have much of a freedom to pick a career in music (or any other career outside medical, engineering and in some rare cases law). there are lot of things we realize later in our life and most importantly 'fail to implement them'. but u shud agree to one thing. even though we have about 500 or even 5000 artists in the US. not many compose soulful composition. something that is rendered to the heart. i dont have much idea about European and Far east music, as these are the only 2 places i know of. you cannot call it a monopoly of the music directors in india. dont they come out with good compositions?. infact that is the way they have survived.
  more to come...
  
  
• From: Raj (@ 206.97.63.112) on: Wed May 21 00:46:46 EDT 2003
  
  narayanan:Listen to some jazz,country music and blue. The blacks pout their hearts out. Listen to Aretha Franklin, Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday and the like. It is different. Soul less? No. Music is an emotional outlet, no matter where it comes from -India,US,Africa... That means there is soul in it. It may be you define soul differently. Listen to some of the country music singers. How they sing about their problems in everyday life. It is somewhat similar to our themmangu. When we are used to one particular type of music, appreciating another becomes difficult. In our own backyard,we have people who can not appreciate
  Carnatic music. Pleas remember, the discussion is about music industries in the west and India. The music industry in India is dominated by cinema,while in US it is not. The reason is the abundance of talent and variety of music. We can not compare the music. It is like asking which is better an apple or a banana? That depends on the taste. As for monopoly, it is there because of lack of abundant talent. They produce good music for cinema. Who produces music that is not cinema oriented? Not long ago,IBM was the major computer manufacturer. They produced high quality computers and provided excellent serevice. Still, they were called a monopoy and were taken to court. You know what happened in the last 20 years. If you want variety and individual talent to develop, we have to move away from cinema music. That will happen only when we can be sure of economic security and the kids have freedom to pursue their passion. More later,,,
  
  
• From: Raj (@ 206.97.63.112) on: Wed May 21 10:22:27 EDT 2003
  
  Narayanan: Typo... pour not pout. please not pleas
  
  
• From: jinx123 (@ 167.203.48.180) on: Wed May 21 15:21:43 EDT 2003
  
  Raj, that was great information and well explained.
  True, that many in India do not get the chance to follow their passion.Example my friend who did a course in microbiology wanted to proceed in that field but his father got an accounting job in ashok Leyland,since he was working there and pushed him to join there, finally he joined and he's ok now.But you never know what would have happened if he had followed his passion.
  But that again can happen only when we have the economic security.
  
  One more point is that many people here refer that many Hollywood movies were musicals before like indain movies.But There's a big difference between hollywood musicals and indian movies.The songs in the musicals are blended in the movie and actors sing the song unlike indian movies where the songs are totally irerelevent to the movie(most of the time).
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Wed May 21 17:19:18 EDT 2003
  
  raj..very good information. I still like to add some more to it. Even though there is a multitude of vocabularies/genres, just like film music in India, US is dominated by the POP music industry where any young woman with a good face and 'flat tummy' can get a recording contract to mouth songs, written by people behind the screens. This is not art, they have turned music into an 'industry'.
  Classical music is struggling here selling a maximum of a few million whereas a single POP album can run into 4 or 5 millions.
  It will be very difficult to delink music from movies in our country, till our people are economicaly well-off to buy CD players/stereos and the media. Surely, engineering and medicine are taking talent away from music and other fields, but only when a country is prosperous arts and music flourishes. Obviously, our music and art is not improving or atleast suffering. You have made a good point here.
  
  I also agree with ! that the west cannot create a multitude of melodies like us with our background/strength in raagams. Melody is our strength, rhythm (rock, R&B, POP inspired by african-americans) is the strength of the american mainstream music.
  
  
• From: Raj (@ 206.97.63.112) on: Thu May 22 16:51:27 EDT 2003
  
  jinx123: Actually, musicals never outnumbered non-musicals in Hollywood. In the early years of 'talkies' -30s and 40s - there were more musicals . They were song and dance movies by Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers. In the 50s and 60s a number of Broadway musicals were made into movies. YOu are right about musicals in Hollywood, where the songs are part of the story/plot. One example is My Fair Lady, where Eliza Doolittle (Audrey Hepburn) sings her way into learning high society English. Actually, Julie Andrews sings for Audrey Hepburn. If you consider all musicals made in Hollywood, they average 3 (may be 4) a year, not 200 a year as we have done recently. The American is cyclical. When they get tired of one thing they will seek something new, sometimes what was out of date. So, it appears as though they will make a few more musicals a year, say, six instead of 3!!!
  
  
• From: Raj (@ 206.97.63.112) on: Thu May 22 17:22:20 EDT 2003
  
  Kiru: You have to remember that US is the most materialistic country on earth. If there is money in it, it will be turned into a business. Music is no exception. Remember also, it is a fun loving society. They will work hard for five days and have fun for two days. The pop music caters for the teenage group, known as teenyboppers. So, the business interests concentrate on that market. Remember Elvis Presley. That does not mean they neglect other forms of music. Classical orchestras are supported by big donors. They may be materialistic, but they do contribute to arts generously and education also. As a rule, I do not like to compare art forms. You can compare two things on a scientific or statistical basis. But, this is art. As they say, ' Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder'. In India, there are people in the north who think Carnatic music is nothing but Bhajans (because of the devotional content). And in the south there are people who think Hindhusthani music is boring ( because there are only two or three ragas in a concert and no composition as in Carnatic music). Neither of the opinions is true. It takes considerable time and exposure to appreciate any new / alien art form. I remember something that happened several years back. I had invited some of my friends for a weekend get together. One of them browsed through my record collection and wanted to listen to M.S. I played it for him. Another friend commented that Lata Mangeshkar sang better than M.S. To prevent a debate, I shut the record player off.This happens a lot. That is why I do not compare art forms. People have different tastes which includes people in the same country as well as people from different countries. We can be proud of our musical and literary heritage. We are the ones to have created compositions with ragas specified - Thevaram composers ( 6th and 7th century) specified ragas for their compositions, except that the names were different from what is used today. Thevaram actually started the bhakthi movement in India. More later....
  
  

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