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Creativity of MSV

Topic started by RAJAN (@ proxy-117.iap.bryant.webtv.net) on Sat Jan 10 15:32:47 EST 1998.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Srikanth (@ proxy1.dpn.deere.com) on: Mon Dec 28 11:49:16 EST 1998
  
  All the songs in the MTK were by MSV, Raja set the bgm only. I have witnessed parts of composing and recording.
  Srikanth
  
  
  
• From: Shashi (@ eed02958.mayo.edu) on: Mon Dec 28 14:22:28 EST 1998
  
  Hi again
  
  There are some 'characteristics' which one can use to identify MSV's melody. Apart from the melody itself the use of complex brigha's to prolong a word so as to keep it with the meter or to connect to a different swara is very typical of MSV. Offcourse, this helps you only when it is present, meaning one cannot dismiss a song as not MSV's if this characteristic is not present.
  
  So where can you spot them in the songs of 'mella thiranthathu kanavu'.
  
  1. In Vaa vennila--the line 'thiraipotu unnai' in the 3rd line of the charanam, especially the brigha for the word 'unnai' is a typical example for the stamp of MSV.
  2. In Thedum kanpaarvai--the song is full of these examples--in the pallavi, the line 'sonna vaarthai katril(maari?) pOgumO?'--the word pOgumO with its complex brighas is again typical of MSV.
  3. Dil Dil Dil Manadhil (one of my favorites)--has a characteristic MSVism in the charanam's opening lines--the last word of which I dont recall clearly now--one can substitute 'poongkiliye' or 'kaaviyame' for convenience sake. This last word again has a complex brigha so typical of MSV.
  4. In Ooru Sanam.. song the last line of the charanam--'melum melum yengum, intha neram than'--the second 'melum' has the characteristic MSV brigha.
  5. Again as I said, one cannot dismiss a song as not MSV just because this characteristic is not present. Example-Kuzhaludhum kannanukku.
  
  
  
  
• From: Shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Mon Dec 28 23:48:59 EST 1998
  
  Srikanth,
  IR told this (that he composed ooru sanam)in an interview a few years back (on the pongal day).
  
  Plus, I cud see a lot of "IR stamp" in that song. Probably MSV adapted his style since he was the co-MD.
  
  
• From: karthi (@ lab3.theatrium.net) on: Tue Dec 29 04:17:04 EST 1998
  
  Hi guys!
  
  Am here again. Ennavo enakku MSV songs paadinaale manasukkulla interludes odum. may be I've (wished to?) listen to them a lot more than IR's songs in spite of growing listening to IR's music.
  
  I said I get irritated when I hear Azhagiya Kanne because the interludes and the song do not match and hence it gives a feeling I hear too many songs in one song. Not to confuse yourself as I am saying it's a mixture of too many songs. Not at all. It's just that when I sing along with that song I feel I lose my continuity for the very fact I cannot keep in tune with the interludes in order to be able to catch up with the stanzas. It's like you have to wait for the stanza and you can't sing the interludes (not even imagine to follow along) through the song adhaavadhu naa mela sonna madhiri interludes manasukkulla odalai. so I just lose patience. Avlodhaan.
  
  I should not deny any way that the mood of the song is felt in IR's songs very much.
  
  I like MSV's songs because they are more resounding than IR's. May be because of the voice, quality of lyrics, and the melody of the tunes.
  
  
• From: Sangeetha (@ bluebird.state.mo.us) on: Tue Dec 29 18:39:01 EST 1998
  
  Karthi,
  
  I was completely ignoring MSV songs when I grew up, because of IR's wonderful tunes and amount of weightage he gives to interludes in his songs. Azhagiya kanne is one of the Master piece of IR. Interludes of that songs are oftenly repeated in RR of the entire movie.
  
  IR's great success is his different style of interludes.
  
  Anyone could hardly ever remember MSV's interludes even in his great hit songs.
  
  
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Tue Dec 29 20:02:32 EST 1998
  
  Anyone could hardly ever remember MSV's interludes even in his great hit songs.
  
  Sangeetha,
  Such statements will welcome you to the winter of your discontent in the DF. Tread gently, lady.
  
  
• From: karthi (@ lab3.theatrium.net) on: Tue Dec 29 23:31:27 EST 1998
  
  Sangeetha,
  
  Who's that anyone? Is that you?
  
  
  
  
• From: Shanmugam Murugappan (@ 208.236.83.16) on: Wed Dec 30 15:45:25 EST 1998
  
  Sangeetha,
  
  I second your opinion that IR had adopted different style of interludes and he was a master in that. But, definitely, I can't accept that MSV's interludes are not great. They were also good. Even though I don't want to compare, I will say IR's style of interludes was better, I agree. But MSV too had done a good job in that.
  
  IMO, one reason for MSV's songs becoming more popular and remembered for a long time is the quality of the lyrics.
  
  
• From: Shashi (@ eed02976.mayo.edu) on: Wed Dec 30 17:19:13 EST 1998
  
  Hello
  
  Sometime back somebody wanted to know songs in Rupaka talam. Sambo-Siva-Sambo... in Ninaithale Inikkum, a beautiful MSV number is in Rupaka Talam. Very interesting are the wonderful changes of the 'nadai' in the interludes and the kind of hypnotizing beat for the melody.
  
  I thought this would be another example of creativity of the great MSV!!
  
  BTW, the song 'Margazhithan Odipochu..' in Thalapathy is also in Rupaka Talam as is the song which is sung by SJ and chorus--I just cannot remember the opening line--but it has the lines 'I love India' at the end of the song. Can somebody post the opening line?
  
  
• From: nakkeeran (@ inet32.us.oracle.com) on: Wed Dec 30 17:39:13 EST 1998
  
  I think it's 'Adi aadivarum pallaakku..' from the movie I love India.( The dance with a Python) I've mentioned it based on your ending note, and dont have any knowledge of Ragas.
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ ifmxlenx.na.informix.com) on: Wed Dec 30 17:56:40 EST 1998
  
  MSV's interludes should not be judged in isolation , they blend in beautifully with the main melody and that was his intention...he viewed the whole thing as one integrated unit. He certainly was not composing interludes with the motive of releasing them as stand-alone instrumental pieces. Listen to songs like "Ponmagal VanthaaL", "Sontham eppothum thodarkathai thaan" and see how the pace of the song is maintained in the interludes thereby enriching the song as a whole.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 1cust226.tnt10.chi5.da.uu.net) on: Thu Dec 31 09:31:01 EST 1998
  
  Sangetha :
  I am sorry if you had not heard any MSV songs before, it is not MSV's mistake I still rememberall the interludes, tunes etc etc of what MSV has done. I started to hear raja only from 1980, in 70's he was just another music director.
  
  
  Shamugam Murgappan : MSV sogns are remembered for the lyrics - greatest joke - will you sit and hear if someone reads out all the lyrics in a tape,songs like Athan , athikai, kamban emandhan are very tough to compose my dear sir,
  BTW raja's has not composed much of prewritten lyrics. Do talk without hearing more MSV.
  HIS CREATIVITY IS ONE OF THE BEST IN THE INDUSTRY, HE WAS THE FIRST TO DO MANY THINGS IN FILM MUSIC.
  Have you heard "thambi nan perandhen kanchiyele netru" this song is set to Mand Ragam - just for argument is there any piece by Raja in Mand, as far I know nothing. This song was big hit inspite of lyrics being 100% MGR propoganda.
  
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: Shashi (@ fw1xlate1.mayo.edu) on: Thu Dec 31 09:57:33 EST 1998
  
  Thanks Nakkeeran--Yes it is Adivarum pallaku.. which is set to Rupaka talam.
  
  Sometime back in a TV program presented by Sudha Raghunathan (I dont remember the name of this program; I think it was in Sun TV?) or was it SwaraRagaSudha (a similar program presented by Balamurali) there was a mention of the song 'Kaasikku pogum sanyasi..' By itself the song has excellent lyrics and appropriate melody and wonderful vocalisation by both TMS and Seerkazhi (for MGR and Nagesh resp.)
  
  Apparently this song is set to a very rare raga. This raga has also never been used before in Cine circles and still remains so (at least at the time the program was telecast) adding another feather in the cap of MSV!!
  
  Anybody remember the raga mentioned in the program?
  
  
• From: Ragapriyan (@ 202.54.37.18) on: Thu Dec 31 10:35:24 EST 1998
  
  Shashi:
  
  kaasikkup pOgum sanyaasi .. is in Bilahari.
  
  
• From: Shashi (@ fw1xlate1.mayo.edu) on: Thu Dec 31 10:45:17 EST 1998
  
  Thanks Ragapriyan
  
  Sure sounds like Bilahari to me too, now that you have mentioned it. However, why did they make a big fuss about it in the program? Could it be a raga very close to Bilahari with some nauances/subtle changes which make it unique raga of its own? Once again does anybody recall this program I am talking about?
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ 206-125-72.ipt.aol.com) on: Thu Dec 31 11:44:25 EST 1998
  
  If I may make a simple request...could everyone please keep IR off this thread ? I mean...like don't mention him at all. MSV was the greatest...then there was a gap/void/drought of 20 years and then ARR, the successor came up. OK ? Just leave IR out of this. Or is it that even MSV's creativity needs IR as a reference ? I am sure that is not the case. So can we ease up on the IR bashing for a while ? Please...
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.23.148) on: Thu Dec 31 13:21:54 EST 1998
  
  if it is bilahari, then i think IR has a song 'koondhalile megam vandhu' by KJY, a melodious number from the film balanaagamma.
  
  
• From: Shanmugam Murugappan (@ 208.236.83.6) on: Thu Dec 31 15:01:01 EST 1998
  
  Srikanth,
  
  I never said MSV's songs are remembered ONLY for the lyrics. I just said that is ALSO one reason. I, definitely, will agree to your point that I can't just listen to the lyrics alone without the tune. If you can see the old songs thread, I have given my list of favourites and almost 95% of the songs are tuned by MSV. MSV is a great MD. If you can again read my posting, I have mentioned that I cannot accept Sangeetha's views on MSV's interludes, and I also mentioned that MSV's interludes are great. I like MSV as much as IR and I also like ARR. Who can forget all the old memorable songs tuned by MSV. At the same time I also have a feeling that Kannadasan's lyrics are a very valuable reason for the songs becoming so memorable.
  
  
• From: saketh (@ calloway-a-asy-11.rutgers.edu) on: Thu Dec 31 16:38:44 EST 1998
  
  shashi, Ragapriyan and vijay,
  
  the song "Kaasikku pogum sanyaasi" is based on the raga Yadhukula KAmbodhi. (i got this information from the list of raga based songs that were discussed in the program "Raagam thandha gaanam" broadcast in Singapore Radio station).
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 1cust1.tnt9.chi5.da.uu.net) on: Thu Dec 31 20:07:07 EST 1998
  
  Shanmugam:
  It was great team work by 2 gaints, without room for any ego. In Simple words MSV understands Kanndasan better than his wife.
  Have any one heard the krishaganam part 2, it was a great album. There is song sung by spb in charukesi , aniyelum siranda annai - one of the best charukesi's, MSV has used the same charukesi in Azagiya tamil magal, which is totally a different kind of mood.
  
  Srikanth
  
  

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