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TMS over-do seidha padalgal ?

Topic started by TMS_Virumbi (@ 207.172.47.106) on Thu Jan 10 20:51:23 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

TMS has given thousands of great songs. In a few of his songs he used to stretch/change lot of words (like Vazhnam for Vannam,elndrum for endrum) to get an effect. Classic examples are

(1) Idho Endhan Deivam Munnale
(2) Avalukkum Tamil Endru Per
(3) Aagayap Pandhalile
(4) Paruthi edukayile
(5) Malligai Mullai
(6) Naan Oru rasi illa raja
(7) Malar Koduthen

TMS never did any such things in his old songs ..

Where these done intentional by TMS or was it due to aging or the MD's wanted TMS to sing like that or was it because it was mainly for Sivaji?

TMS lovers throw some light ..

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Responses:

• From: Karthi (@ 63.21.181.239) on: Thu Jan 10 22:32:21 EST 2002
  
  "Vazhnam", "Elndrum" - when TMS does this, it may usually be where the tune is such so that singing these words like quoted above ie wrongly will be much easier than to pronounce them exactly.
  
  But, I have noticed this "elndrum" kolai more often with SPB, often with P Suseela (it's interesting that she sings one time correctly and another time wrongly in the same song!), and "Vazhnam" kolai with TMS, P Suseela, SPB, & Janaki. L R Easwari and Vani Jayaram kitta indha maadhiri kolaigaL kettadhillai.
  
  A friend of mine once commented that "vaZHnam" kolai is OK since the actual letter Na (moondru suzhi) is iL + na (ie periya iL + na). But still, it doesn't sound good. But it's a lot better than "elndrum" kolai!
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Fri Jan 11 14:40:43 EST 2002
  
  but kArthi vANam-nA enna? i know vAnam = sky; but vANam = ? (bANam?) vAZhnam is ok comment is ridiculous. the mUnRucuzi Na doesnot arise from L and reNTucuzi na. these kinds are horrors are very common in carnatic performances (but mentioning this might invite the wrath of "people with refined tastes" :-( Oh well!). you would find this kind tamiz kolai in mkt, puc, trm songs also. also people pronunce cha as sa. like sollAyO vAy thiRandhu instead of the correct chollAyO vAy thiRandhu. my guess it that this corruption probably happened a couple of centuries ago.
  
  
• From: Vijay (@ 204.154.71.101) on: Fri Jan 11 15:23:38 EST 2002
  
  TMS was asked to do it on purpose. TMS had an excellent command over the language and diction. He was asked to stretch words like 'Inbameeeeeeeee undhan per penmayoooooo' ..'Panjanaiii vendumo nenjanai podhummeee'
  
  
• From: Karthi (@ 63.21.181.166) on: Mon Jan 14 14:22:55 EST 2002
  
  Vijay, I think we are talking about different things!
  
  hihi, I also remember something like iL + na = Na in the tamil grammer books, not very sure. Please check it out. As for the pronunciation of 'sa' and 'cha' it varies differently and it always is "cha" if preceded by the otrezhuthu
  "ichch". Sometimes, both are OK like in 'Seidhi' and 'Cheidhi'.
  
  Even the 3-suzhi 'iN' kolai is tolerable because if you have to inevitably stretch the letter as required by a tune, it's really tough to do it with the tongue rolled in so much inside. But what I cannot stand is the 2-suzhi 'in' kolai: engerndhu 'il' vandhadhu ange!
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Mon Jan 14 15:03:10 EST 2002
  
  Sometimes, both are OK like in 'Seidhi' and 'Cheidhi' karthi, unfortunately, this is aRaikuRai knowledge. it is always cheidhi and not seidhi. i have written a lot of times (as digression) about this. please do a google search for tamil transliteration. nom.
  
  
• From: Karthi (@ 63.21.181.143) on: Tue Jan 15 01:32:18 EST 2002
  
  hihi, unga pera AruL-nu ippOdhaan innoru thread-la paarthen. Thamizh Piriyar (Veriyar?) - aana AruLarasan-dhaanE neenga? En indha peyar maatram?
  
  Neenga solradhu sorry cholradhu puriyudhu. Aanalum ippO irukkira perceivably accepted thamizh ucharippula, pala idangaL-la 'cha'-ku badhil 'sa' olikkudhu illaiyaa. Seeppu, Sombu and the like - indha words-a cheeppu, chombu-nnu chonna (another!) kekka avLO nalla illaiye?
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Tue Jan 15 13:55:49 EST 2002
  
  kArthi :-). after a little bit of practice, the openning 'sa' sound sounds irritating. sometimes, when a sentence has a lot of words with ch beginning it's very melodic (and to some 'tamil' ears chinese :-) - try chonnadhach chenjAn chenjadhach chonnAn :-))) ). the toughest sound is the reNdu chuzi 'na'. it has sound 'between' the thannagaram and mUNuchuzi Na. very tough. thamizh pEsa ingu vAyppu kuRaivu enbadhAl, innum adhu pidipadavillai :-( (i started using the name hihi:-) whenever i wanted to make tongu-in-cheek comments; but now everyone knows who this hihi:-) is :-(. so i use hihi:-) 'cos it's easy to type! :-)
  
  
• From: chollin chelvar (@ 64.105.35.147) on: Tue Jan 15 14:18:40 EST 2002
  
  Tongue-in-cheek-nnu sollittu...oops... chollittu ellArayum thittalAm.....hmmmm....ithu eththana nALA ?
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 207.43.195.202) on: Tue Jan 15 14:41:50 EST 2002
  
  chollin chelvaa:
  
  kaarthikku pidichcha paattu (aahaa pidiththa nnu asingamaaga ezhudhaama pidichcha endru irandu thadavai "cha" ubayOgiththa en thiruththamizhppaNi thodarattum)
  chonnadhu nee thaanaa, chol chol.....
  
  
• From: nallthambi (@ 128.119.85.174) on: Tue Jan 15 14:55:57 EST 2002
  
  TMS ponaal pogatum poda!
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Tue Jan 15 15:15:03 EST 2002
  
  chollin chelvar :-))))))))))) ALa vidunga.
  
  nallthambi: enna kamalhassan fan-A? :-))
  
  
• From: Vishvesh (@ 66.24.214.34) on: Tue Jan 15 15:19:45 EST 2002
  
  TMS, after he became a well reputed singer, took the additional liberty of trying a few sourashtra sounds in many songs and that spoiled them. The nasal sounds and stretches, I believe, were because of this reason. You should see him singing live ! Man, I have sometimes thought that a man who sang "muththaiththaru", "Eri karaiyin mElE" could stoop down to such vulgarity. He took all kinds of liberties while re-recording too in his later and that partly explains much of the fall in quality of his later songs.
  
  Raja, your observation about his nadaswaram like sangathis and Birkhas was very nice. I understand that you are a singer too. I had quite a few friends who were professional singers who had always told me about that difficulty of getting them right.
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.126) on: Tue Jan 15 23:04:40 EST 2002
  
  TMS, after he became a well reputed singer, took the additional liberty of trying a few sourashtra sounds in many songs and that spoiled them.
  
  Vishvesh, could you please elaborate on this, with examples? As far as my understanding goes TMS used this sourashtra knowledge only to fit in WORDS for the shanthi nilayam(?) song pombaLa oruththi irundhaaLaam, or a couple more, but using sourashtra SOUNDS? Sounds new to me.
  
  
• From: Vishvesh (@ 66.24.214.34) on: Wed Jan 16 09:07:13 EST 2002
  
  Kupps,
  
  When I meant sourashtra sounds, I didn't mean he used the sourashtra language directly as he did in that song you had referred to (That song was from "adhE kangaL", if I am right). Sourashtra language has its own style and has its typical stretch and accents. If you can speak with the older generation of sourashtrians in Tamil (I am talking about sourashtra speaking people in Madurai alone ; it is different in other cities !), you can yourself observe it. A Typical example could be their "angitti" for "angittu". My observation was TMS in his later days started using those heavily influenced accents without caring much about their real sounds. You should hear his song "kannilE kudiyirindhu". As a sourashtrian, when I hear the humming from that song, I even wonder if TMS was singing a sourashtra song itself. You can observe he is not much nasal in his earlier songs where he tries to emphasize the right tamil sound.
  That nasal tone, I believe, comes to him when he cares less about the right sound of the tamil word. He unconsciously gets into his native influence there and that could be the reason why he drags quite a few notes too. A few songs as very nicely observed in the starter discussion of this thread are very good examples of what I mean. Take this song "malligai mullai". There is an additional emphasis on the sound 'l' and an annoying nasal sound all along with it. Also note the second line of the song "ponmozi piLLai". Hear carefully the last 'Lai' sound. There is again a drag which a native tamil speaking singer would have done it differently.
  
  I am only trying to find what went wrong with the mediocrity and sub-standard quality of much of his later songs. I have a very high regard for him as one of the best TFM singers. I hear his earlier songs not just for the musical content alone but also for the sweetness of his tamil accent. His later tunes were also not comparable to his earlier ones, but I feel he also had a part in spoiling them. Perhaps he was less serious or perhaps he was experimenting which backfired !!!
  
  
  
  
• From: haris (@ 148.87.1.171) on: Wed Jan 16 19:38:14 EST 2002
  
  Vishvesh- heard malligai mullai just now. nothing sounded odd to me in terms pronounciation. nasal - though is in place.
  
  

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