Topic started by rjay (@ 206.152.113.140) on Thu Aug 24 12:45:43 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
Composing Secrets - Tracks and Instruments
Most songs have the following structure:(you can
think of them as parallel tracks)
1. Melody
2. Bass
3. Chord/Accompaniment
4. Drums
5. Percussion
Melody is sung by the singer or could be the
'solo' played by an instrument, when singer
is taking breath. In most music,
melody states the theme of the song/composition
and carries the emotion. All the other tracks
should provide a context to what is says or
reinforce and enhance it.
Human voice, flute, sax, trumpet, and synthetic
sounds serve well as melody instruments.
Drums set the basic pulse and rhythm and there
are many drum kits: acoustic, jazz, techno(used
in ;chandralekha - Thiruda; for example), power
(pottu vaitha kadhal thittam) and many many more.
Bass is usually played by a double bass - huge
violin, plucked like a guitar, or with a guitar
itself. With electronics, synth bass sounds are
generated from keyboard itself(kadalikkum pennin
kaigal - has a wonderful synth bass sound
in its intro.) Slap, Electric, Fretless,
are a few more common sounds. I will get you
recordings of these in isolation.
Accompaniment or backing is usually provided
by piano or guitar class of instruments.
And there are two types: block chords, where
you play the whole chords and hold them,
versus arpeggio and broken chords where
you strike the notes one after another.
In most western music, piano and guitar
are 2 pieces of the five piece orchestra
(voice, piano, guitar, strings, drums)
Strings typically provide counterpoint,
but can also play accompaniment.
My definition, Counterpoint is nothing but alternate melody
which either responds to the lead melody
or plays against it. Examples to follow.
Percussion is the name given by westerners
to all non-western beat instruments! ;)
Shakers, Morocos (chicku chiku) and sticks
and claves and others are examples.
Even bongos (from Africa) and our Tabla are
named percussion, but they are actually
drums because they can play alone and provide
rhythm without the drums.
We can proceed learning in two ways:
(i) We will explore the General midi sounds
128 instruments (16 categories and 8 in each)
and one drum kit. We will take each sound one
by one and learn to identify it and see what
its unique value is and how it has been used
in TFM. I can upload audio demos.
(ii) We can later see the song structure along time
axis (measures) - in terms of intro, theme, break, pallavi
, charanam structure and learn how orchestration
is effectively varied to serve the needs of
the listener at each position.
Basically, tracks and measures are the two
dimensions to understand a composition.
As an aid we can pull apart some famous songs of your choice to see how they are put together. And I can take one of my own compositions and share what thoughts and decisions guided its creation.
Game?
Here is a link to the tutorial that RJay has prepared:
Melody Making Exercise.
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123)
on: Tue Aug 12 14:48:37 EDT 2003
There was sentence, I forgot to finish...
This is why good hit writers like T.Rajendar did not grow into breakthrough MDs. T.Rajendar made organic songs (he was the writer and composer). When songs come to you with tune and lyrics, they are very powerful and organic and natural. Tune and lyrics go so well together in his songs like Kuzhandhai padum thalattu, Vaasamilla malaridhu.
The problem is that in other areas like arrangement and production he (and his help A.A.Raj) had nothing new to offer.
- From: vijay (@ 68.16.25.50)
on: Tue Aug 12 15:36:22 EDT 2003
"Another way of looking at it. In all fields, things go around in circles - from simplicity to complexity and then back to simplicity. So my guess is that the next big MD will be a minimalist. He will amaze not by the richness of the compositions, but by the emotional impact he has with very little. He will be totally free of any gimmicks and shocks. He or She.
"
Rjay I had somewhat similar thoughts too, but what I was not sure was whether we had come a full circle yet for us to get back to the minimalistic ways.Thanks for your elaborate post! You are right, its difficult to predict :-) but its fun guessing how everything is going to shape up.I wanted an educated opinion and thats the reason I bugged you.
On TR, it looks like telepathy, I just posted something about him in the thread started by Udhaya :-)
- From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123)
on: Tue Aug 12 15:46:10 EDT 2003
Even though I believe in telepathy and I practice
it whenever absolutely required, there could be simpler explanation - when similar subjects are discussed and same writers visit two threads, it is likely they end up remembering the same thing ;)
This is called occam's razor. (If there are two explanations to the same thing, often the simpler one has more chance of being true!)
- From: vijay (@ 68.16.25.50)
on: Tue Aug 12 16:25:38 EDT 2003
rjay :-)
- From: k (@ 192.138.150.249)
on: Tue Aug 12 17:46:37 EDT 2003
"The next big MD is likely to be a singer/songwriter/composer, allowing him or her to take the art to a whole new level"
I also suspect the same..but not sure when its gonna happen. Our MDs/singers/lyricists are all pretty talented. So if they work together they will surely make an emotional impact. People like TMS/SPB when they sing, it feels as though the character himself is singing. It is pretty convincing (I dont see this trait in new singers though).
Re: rAja. It is only us (elite ?) who see the technicalities in his music. How many people in tamil nadu know what is a bass guitar ? I am pretty sure common people listened to rAja's music just for the emotions. At one point of time, he was singing atleast one song in the movie, which was considered an 'highlight'. Some were written by him and now he seems inclined to write as well.
Re: TR: If TR had put himself up in the business MD/lyrics writing he would have done well for himself. But he would never match the versatility of mainstream MDs.
Re: Rahman. Rahman's entry is like the liberalisation of the economy. Fancy cars/stereos etc. Fascination with western stuff. YSR has said that there will not be a next big trend, because now we have been exposed to all kinds..
Its gonna be chaos for sometime and hopefully some order will emerge out of this .. Meanwhile, society and economy will undergo major changes to catalyse this.
- From: vijay (@ 68.16.25.50)
on: Tue Aug 12 18:32:57 EDT 2003
"YSR has said that there will not be a next big trend, because now we have been exposed to all kinds..
"
I read that and to some extent that statement provoked me into starting this discussion. Its always interesting to know a MDs perspective on all this. The main thing is to find out if there is any aspect of composing/songmaking that the present MDs are not giving enough attention to and that is where the thrust would be with the next big trend. Thats how it has been so far. Like rjay says, it does seem that we have come almost a full circle with the melody/orchestration/sounds&recording aspects covered by each of the 3 previous big trends. So what is left? There are only so many genres that you can borrow from and can mix together. There has to be a fundamental change in the song-making style to get that next big trend. And to think that TFM is not even 100 years old. In some way MSV/IR/ARR are all pioneers. I would say they have had the advantage of appearing earlier in time :-) The job gets tougher and tougher as the next big MD has to avoid the strong influences of more and more MDs before him and has lesser new areas to explore. Its just something I keep thinking about.
- From: gabriel (@ )
on: Tue Sep 23 03:00:59 EDT 2003
i want to know how to improve the listening power in music , in addition to that i am having psr-79 keyboard model, so what i have to do for improving the listening kindly send me asap
- From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123)
on: Tue Sep 23 10:10:18 EDT 2003
One of the best ways to improve listening is to
play an the lead melodies, solos from a song on an instrument and then moving on to chord backing.
You can also get a nice buddy who is similarly interested and sing these 'bits' loud with you.
If you are more serious, listening to music while seeing the score helps you to see what's going on in music more clearly. I have realized after so many years that sophistication in arrangement cannot be achieved without learning to read and write scores.
- From: kavin (@ )
on: Wed Oct 15 16:55:24 EDT 2003
I had posted a request in the Pithamagan thread but didn't get any meaningful response. A 'kottu' on my head for expecting a response there. I hope somebody will guide me in the right direction in this thread.
I have been trying to understand the interludes mainly the orchestration of piraiye and elangathu from the movie Pithamagan. They seem so nebulous, how does one concieve such compositions and put it down in paper? Is it by trial and error that one crystalises or amalgamates such varied sound patterns?
Can somebody analyse the interludes or the way the instruments are used and explain how the orchestration was accomplished it would be interesting. Even references to similar style of compositions in any part of the world would be much appreciated.
- From: rjay (@ )
on: Fri Nov 14 15:10:32 EST 2003
Kavin
Haven't heard Pithamagan yet. Will get to it.
rjay
- From: vimal (@ 203.197.138.163)
on: Sun Nov 16 03:45:36 EST 2003
i disagree with you.the trumpet is not used for melody any more.look at the eg. of ricky martin .every time he is scoring he will combine the synth drums and trumpet to give exotic feeling of rythmic western bands.nowadays guitars and keyboards are used for the melodies .present music directors in tamilnadu like HJ,Vs all fusing the western instruments like guitar and keyboard to make Carnautic sounds.So now they are creating a new feel over Carnautic and melodies
- From: rahul (@ )
on: Sat Feb 21 03:32:39 EST 2004
purani jeans aur guitar ( ali hadher)
- From: prasanna (@ 61.247.245.191)
on: Sun Feb 22 14:03:06 EST 2004
wrt 1st bgm in piraiye...i simply find it a case where echoing is used...dats quite normal...in sophisticated softwares, u can use sounds and echo them, to produce such effects.
i dun find anything mnd-boggling in the bgms of elangaathu anyway..though its an awesome melody.
- From: music-man (@ 61.1.200.181)
on: Sun Feb 22 23:09:27 EST 2004
Can anyone help on the following musical score?.This score comes in the film “Excalibur” and also in the “Old Spice” advertisement.
- From: music-man (@ 61.1.200.181)
on: Sun Feb 22 23:09:53 EST 2004
Can anyone help on the following musical score?.This score comes in the film “Excalibur” and also in the “Old Spice” advertisement.
- From: hari venkat (@ )
on: Thu Aug 12 12:36:26 EDT 2004
music-man, the score u have specified in Old Spice" advertisement is composed by Beethoven. do u have any link to get the score or do u have it with u.
- From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.18)
on: Thu Aug 12 14:58:39 EDT 2004
Hari, no. It is the music from Carl Orff's Carmina Burana.
- From: hari venkat (@ 61.1.221.132)
on: Thu Aug 12 23:50:22 EDT 2004
Swamiji, thank u. do u haave that work with u or is there any other link to get that piece. i am very much fond of that work.
- From: hari venkat (@ 61.1.221.132)
on: Fri Aug 13 00:01:57 EDT 2004
swmiji, i have got the link & thank u for ur help.
the link is "http://www.botproductions.com/music/carmina.html"
- From: Music_lover (@ 203.200.58.136)
on: Fri Aug 13 04:57:46 EDT 2004
Guys, try listening the title/theme tracks of "Jurassic Park" by John Williams - terrific stuff!
there are two movements, the first one played with the piano and the strings follow suit and the second one has brass instruments taking over - amazing stuff!!
it is the second movement you get to hear in those sweeping scenes showing the dinosaurs
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