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DETORIATION OF TFM

Topic started by SATHYIYAVAGEESWARAN (@ client-151-200-127-194.bellatlantic.net) on Wed Jan 21 01:09:36 EST 1998.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• From: SATHIYAVAGEESWARAN (@ client-151-200-127-194.bellatlantic.net) on: Wed Jan 21 01:25:27 EST 1998
  
  Hello,
  I am not sure about till 60s. But there were atleast 100 hit songs every year till atleast 1990 from 1970. I have been watching the field keenly for the past 3 years. The number of hit songs is less than 25 per year.
  Also songs played a major impact in films' success till then. Suppose there are 10 films getting released for Deepavali, 2 go for 25 weeks, 2 go for 100 days, 3 hold their money and two go for a flop. Nowadays in a mass release Only one goes for 100 days to 150 days, 2 hold the money and rest go for huge failures.
  Even in failure films we recognised the good songs in last few decades. e.g. Ninaivellam nithya, Kaadhal oviam, nizhzlgal, Nadodi thendral, Thangamagan, Per sollum Pillai etc.
  But today we totally ignore the songs in a failure film however good they may be. No MD is exempted here. Let me give few examples
  Siraichalai - Ilayaraja
  Pavithra - Rahman
  Annai vayal - Sirpi
  Solaiyamma - Deva
  
  I will follow up with my perceptions.
  
  
  
• From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.9) on: Wed Jan 21 22:29:21 EST 1998
  
  SVageeswaran
  
  Good topic. Please maintain this neutral with no specific attacks.
  
  According to some reports on SunTV, 1997 was the worst year for the cassette industry as the sales went to a record low after many years. The other point you made is also right - songs are not appreciated if the movie is a flop. There were exceptions to this - nErukku nEr, rAman abthullaa, thEvathai.
  
  But the worst trend is, songs becoming a hit however bad they are, if the movie is a hit. Eg in 1997 - aruNAchalam, jAnakirAman, VIP.
  
  
• From: wrangler (@ bones.deneb.com) on: Fri Jan 23 02:31:22 EST 1998
  
  Arvind:
  IMO (and watching what is happening in India),
  you are right about Nerukku Ner - flop movie
  with great songs and cassatte sales were good
  (from Tamil Audio World monthly magazine) -
  thirumbum tea-kadai yellAm NN pAttuthAn.
  
  But you are wrong about Arunachalam: you may
  not like it - but I liked 3 songs very much -
  and even after a year those 3 songs are
  requested in TV listeners choice programs.
  Arun should be in the "Suceesful movie with good Songs"
  list.
  
  I stopped buying new audio cassattes (except ARR)
  and get to hear them ONLY thru TV (makkaLs'
  unMaiyAna rasanai) and noticed that NOT all
  the good songs from FAILURE movies are ignored.
  
  Arvind is right about drop in audio sale and
  according to that Audio magazine - they are
  expecting a big boost after JEANS.
  (me too eagerly waiting)
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 34.minneapolis-06.mn.dial-access.att.net) on: Fri Jan 23 23:01:34 EST 1998
  
  Hi guys,
  
  I read some where above that songs of VIP is not good...
  I agree songs were by sung non-tamil persons,
  so the pronounciation was not upto the mark..
  
  But Frankly Ranjit's Drumcompositions
  and Slap Bass parts are very very invovative..
  
  I am sure Mailu Mailu MailAmma is good number..
  Try to listen again with an open heart, see the background scores in the song... they are all pure western notes without mix of Tfm masala..
  It is a totally differnt kind of music...
  Raja fans will not like it....
  
  I feel it is a good start for Ranjit Barot..
  
  Ranjit barot is the key drum programmer in most of the AR songs..., he is very talented person
  
  
  :Was VIP a hit movie...???
  
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: RajaG (@ ) on: Tue Mar 2 14:05:25 EST 1999
  
  Srikanth,
  
  I was not a DFer at the time this topic was discussed so I have revived this topic as well as provided a response to your post. I strongly agree that VIP had excellent songs and IMO is a better album than Jeans, UyirE and Kadhalikku Mariyaadhai. I am comparing VIP with these three because they were the 'block busters' in the recent past. I would have naturally expected the percussion arrangement to have been exceptional, as RB is a percussion arranger. However, I was very pleasantly surprised by the melodies too. BTW if you listen to the Telugu version of VIP songs, the choice of selection of singers is more apt.
  
  Coming back to the main topic, I would concur that the quality of music is going down. It is definitely a degeneration caused by work habits among peers. DEVA is copying with abandon, ARR is using (mostly) horrible or inappropriate singers and IR has become a follower rather than a leader of trends.
  We should not confuse HITS with CLASSICS. AvaLoru navarasa naadagam, Panivizhum Malarvanam are examples of Hits which were also Classics. Hayra Hayra Haay Rabba, Chaiya Chaiya, Ennai Thaalaatta are Hits but I doubt if we can ever claim them as classics. This is because when one listens to classics, one goes beyond the minimum level of enjoyment derived as a listener and admires the creativity and imagination of the composer/singer. Unfortunately, I think TFM is flooded with a whole lot of 'also rans' and the best among the mediocre is becoming a hit.
  
  
• From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Tue Mar 2 14:40:36 EST 1999
  
  hi rAjAG,
  
  you are right. (i too agree that VIP song mayilu mayilu mayilammA is good; who did the music for minnal oru
  kOdi, btw?)
  
  i feel that tfm is now like hfm of the previous decade and if the trend continues, it will fast reach hfm's
  present status. i feel the same even with the western pop and R&R scenario also. maybe it's an intangible
  effect of becoming a globalized community.
  
  
• From: Swami (@ wp2.ericy.com) on: Tue Mar 2 16:32:08 EST 1999
  
  "We should not confuse HITS with CLASSICS."
  
  Excellent statement Mr. RajaG
  
  
• From: dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Tue Mar 2 17:19:09 EST 1999
  
  RajaG,
  I don't think VIP songs are better than Kaathaluku Mariyathai. KM had classic songs like AAriraro, AAriraro Aanantham Thanthaye.... Tell me any VIP song thats comparable to Ennai Thallata.. from KM. Though KM songs are not Super Super Classicals like the ones you have mentioned.
  
  Music of VIP is more like ARR type. I liked VIP but its definetly not of the class to be compared to KM.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 207.43.195.201) on: Tue Mar 2 17:32:55 EST 1999
  
  dorai,
  
  Coming Soon. Maybe here or in a different appropriate thread - analysis of VIP song by song. You are quite right about VIP sounding ARRish. But good ARRish, not some of the 'ordinary' stuff which he has rolled out in the past. Please give me some time.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Tue Mar 2 17:57:42 EST 1999
  
  "Deterioration in TFM" is a slam-bang generalization that I don't agree with. Are good songs harder to find? Yes. Is the number of bad songs out there more than ever before? Yes. But, proportionately speaking (i.e. number of bad songs to number of releases) we are not far off from the early 70s, which in my opinion was a really stagnated time in TFM. Shankar Ganesh produced so much crap back then, so did MSV (save for KB's films and a few MGR, Sivaji starrers). Even marquee movies had a dip in the number of good songs they had.
  
  Today there are too many items coming out and not enough shelf space for all of them. So, the movies that do well promote the songs to the public, or if there's a high expectation for the soundtrack because of high profile stars, be they producers, directors, actors or MDs, word gets around. Otherwise, good songs like Vidhyasagar's "vaa sagi" from Arasiyal, Deva's "Manimegalayae" from an R. Sunderraajan movie (see, even I can't remember the movie though I love the song), ARR's "Uyirum Neeyae" from Pavithra would shine in the mainstream limelight that they so deserve. It is harder to ferret out the good songs, but they are out there.
  
  Hayra Hayra Haay Rabba, Chaiya Chaiya, Ennai Thaalaatta… You too, RajaG? Come on, why don't you talk of Poongaatrilae, Nenjinilae, or Ennuyirae from Uyirae or why not Kannodu, Anbae from Jeans. You can't just take the throwaways from an album and make it stand for the entire album. That would be like taking "Thanni Thotti" as indicative of all of "Sindhu Bhairavi".
  
  
• From: Nithin (@ spider-wa051.proxy.aol.com) on: Tue Mar 2 18:23:14 EST 1999
  
  Sathya:
  
  Excellent thread.
  
  
• From: chandy (@ 209.125.83.228) on: Wed Mar 3 11:22:58 EST 1999
  
  
  Most of the songs in VIP were take offs from Hindi numbers. In fact the movie itself is a remake of "Tere Mere Sapne" - first movie from Amitabh Bachan Corporation Ltd.
  
  The comparisons of "arunachalam", "jeans", "uiyre" doesnt sound very satisfactory to me. We all have different tastes and one could like a song for the sake of artists, tune, the videography, choreography, music etc. So, the comparison needs to be more fine-tuned.
  
  Coming to the issue of hit-songs-in-flop-movies, yes, i agree that some very good numbers go unnoticed because of tje box-office performance of a movie. Nerukku Ner is a different case.. though the movie didnt do well, the songs were very marketed and publicised.. The "hit" status of a song is largely a function of how well the song was marketed and publicised. In case of Arunachalam, the publicity of the movie itself is some hyped, that the songs get noticed very easily. May be, pavithra's songs would have become hit, had they been given enough marketing!!
  
  chandy
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: RajaG (@ 207.43.195.201) on: Wed Mar 3 15:14:27 EST 1999
  
  Udaya,
  
  So this kind of deterioration has happened before in early seventies - if that's true, then do we need somebody (like IR then) to mark an epoch?
  
  You are absolutely right that Hayra, Chaiya, are not the only type of songs representative of the current period. However, they are definitely current Hits and I am still trying to find potential classics from the current hits. If these hits die like 'Orampo, Orampo' or 'aNNEy aNNEy' then good. But unfortunately, if these remain as signatures of the current period in future references, then I guess, TFM has deteriorated. PongaatrilEy, KaNNOdu do not belong to the same category as Hayra Hayra but, at the same time, I am not sure if these can be called Hits, and definitely not classics.
  
  Chandy,
  
  Could you please let me know song by song the Hindi Originals for VIP. I'm just curious. Thanks.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 207.43.195.201) on: Wed Mar 3 15:17:55 EST 1999
  
  Udhaya,
  
  Nalla gnyaanam 'Udaya' Udhaya. Sorry for the typo.
  
  
  

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