The movie review of kilakkum Merkum says that IR lifted ARR's Vande maatharam music in the movie's BGM. Can anyone who have seen the movie Confirm this.?? Thanks
Topic started by MSK (@ dhcp-877019741.qualcomm.com) on Tue Feb 10 14:12:54 EST 1998.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.
Responses:
- From: MSK (@ dhcp-877019741.qualcomm.com)
on: Tue Feb 10 14:31:40 EST 1998
If it's not true, I would like to send an email to
Kumudam to correct it.
- From: MSK (@ dhcp-877019741.qualcomm.com)
on: Tue Feb 10 20:49:53 EST 1998
Further there is no mention abt the songs either.!! Surprising b'cos a lot of people here have said that the songs were good..
- From: RAJAN (@ proxy-155.iap.bryant.webtv.net)
on: Tue Feb 10 23:14:46 EST 1998
MSK:
Kumudam never discussed about the BGM in the film reviews.
This is the first time they are writing about the BGM and saying that IR copied from ...!?!
They put + and - in the film reviews. But in this issue this was missing.
Kumudam allathu Anantha vikatanil IR-ai patri uyarvaga yeluthum poaluthu, athey issue-vil ARR-ai patri yethavathu pakkathil oru chinna seithiyavathu poaduvargal. (athavathu balance-aga irukirargalam)
Anal ARR-ai patri yeluthum poathu yethavathu oru chinna idathil IR'ai kuttuvathu valakkam.
Ithu roamba kalamaga nadanthu varukirathu.
Athey poal Kumudamum, AV poatti pathirigaigal.
AVil oru peatti vanthal athai kindal seithu kumudamil poaduvargal.
Eg. Manirathnam, AV peatiyil sensor muthukelumbu illathavargal endru kooriyirunthar.
Adutha kumudam issue-vil, muthukelumbai patri discuss pannuvathaga oru kutti seithi poattu atharkku pakkathil kutti yeluthil "ithu manirathnam sambantha patta visayam illai" yendru kindal seithuyirunthargal.
Ithey poal kumudam appadi yeluthiatharkku yetho oru karanam irukka veandum.
- From: RAJAN (@ proxy-155.iap.bryant.webtv.net)
on: Tue Feb 10 23:27:16 EST 1998
Appadi yillai yendral innoru karanamum irukkalam.
Avar peayarai keduthu kutti suvarakkuvatharku yendre oru pillaiyaga piranthirukkum KR intha padathirkku BGM panni irukkalam.
IR antha beatai yeduthu poaduvatharkku yenna avaridam sarakku illaya? Intha padathirkku 13 padalgal poattavarukku oru chinna beatai copy panna veandum yendra avasiyam yenna?
KARTHIK RAJA:
Ayya Karthikraja avargalae, pear solla oru pillai yendru kelvi pattu yirukirean, thayavu seithu un aarva kolarinal un appa peayarai kedukka veandam.
Unnidam naangal yethirparpathu, un mandayil irunthu varum unnudaya isayai thaan, aduthavargalukku parimariya echil ilayai engalukku parimarathey!
I am very sorry to say this!
varuthathudan,
un isayai kasukoduthu vaangum oru PAMARAN.
- From: MSK (@ dhcp-877019741.qualcomm.com)
on: Tue Feb 10 23:44:52 EST 1998
But Even if KR did the BGM and lifted from ARR, then IR shd accept responsibility as IR is officially the MD of the Film.
But I think Kumudam is slightly off the track here.I have'nt seen the movie. But i am sure IR would have never done that. Let's hope it stays that way.
Rajan, Have u seen the movie. Has anyone seen this movie.?
- From: Mukund (@ internet-gw1.hea.com)
on: Wed Feb 11 14:34:57 EST 1998
Guys,
Let's not get too emotional over Kumudam. Kumudham had one good interview of IR a few months back. The fact is I am sure IR would not have copied.
What is to be done is to compare the Vande Mataram and Kizhakkum Merkkum ourselves and see if that beat pattern seems to the same !!.
I am sure this beat would have been present in one of IR's earlier movie. Let us hope it would turn out to be this.
BTW, I have another doubt regarding IR's songs.
In Kathalukku Mariyathai some pieces of music in the song "Ayya voodu" sounds very similar to "Thamarai poovukkum thannikum ennaikum" whose MD I beleive is Vidhyasagar. I am not sure if this is similar to any of IR's earlier songs.
Bye,
Mukund
- From: Mukund (@ internet-gw1.hea.com)
on: Wed Feb 11 14:39:32 EST 1998
Guys,
BTW, adding credence to Rajan's reasoning the pages previous to the review contains info about Vande Mataram video and one of the photo has ARR.
Bye,
Mukund
- From: Shashi (@ 137.197.214.73)
on: Thu Feb 12 16:47:03 EST 1998
Hey guys lets not get emotional with kumudam!!--what nonsense?--as Rajan said Kumudam has never been a good critic of music let alone BGM in previous movie review's and now all of a sudden where does this criticism come from?
WHY SHOULD'NT I GET UPSET WITH KUMUDAM? I DOUBT IF THEY REALISE WHAT THEY ARE CLAIMING?
For the sake of others--the contentious remark is given below:
THE BEAT IN THE EARLIER PARTS OF VANDEMATARAM, i.e THE BEAT AT THE TIME OF THE INITIAL HUMMING IS THE BEAT THAT THEY CLAIM WAS COPIED BY RAJA.
I HAVE HEARD THIS BEAT AND CAN CONFIDENTLY SAY THAT THIS BEAT IS NOTHING NEW AND HAS BEEN USED FROM OLDEN TIMES ALBEIT IN A DIFFERENT INSTRUMENT(there was tabla instead of drum machines then). I WILL TRY TO EXPLAIN THE BEAT IN QUESTION BELOW.
The above beat falls under the category of "Chatushram" family of beats under Karnatic music. This basically means it is a repetition of "4 counts" however you see it. For the novice the beat can be represented as repetitions of 1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4......and so on. New rythm patterns are produced by accentuating or diminishing and or omiting these counts with various instrumental tonalities.
The beat in question i.e., the beat in early part of Vandemataram can be represented as 1,_,_,4,1,_,_,_,1,_,_,4,1,_,_,_,1,_,_,4,1,_,_,_.....
In the above representation if you substitute a bass drum beat, ie, DHOOM at 1--where it occurs alone and substitute the sound of the drum stick striking the rim of the kettle drum, ie, TAK, TAK at 4,1, combination we get the beat of the initial portion of Vandemataram. Everybody can easily reproduce this so that we are clear what is being said--by saying this aloud in a rythmic pattern--it may help to say CHIK at the blank spaces ie, "_" in the pattern. In other words the beat can be said as "DHOOM, CHIK, CHIK, TAK, TAK, CHIK, CHIK, CHIK, DHOOM, CHIK, CHIK, TAK, TAK, CHIK, CHIK, CHIK.... & SO ON...
Is this a new beat? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
YOU CAN SING THE SONG FROM ABHIMANYU--THE FAMOUS--"AAHAA INBA NILAVINILE OOHOO JAGAME AADIDUTHE...TO THIS BEAT EXACTLY AND THAT IS WHAT HAS BEEN USED ALTHOUGH WITH TABLA/DHOLAK IN THAT SONG.
NOW HOW CAN YOU CALL A RYTHM WHICH HAS BEEN USED SINCE TIME IMMEMORIAL AS BEING ARR'S AND THAT IT HAS BEEN COPIED BY RAJA?
TO BE FRANK I AM SADDENED BY THE IGNORANCE OF THE PEOPLE WHO WRITE SUCH FOOLISH CRITICISM.
Now, about the other part--not a word about the songs in kizhakum merkum. Each one is a delightful masterpeice. Please listen to the samples at www.mail-bag.com/jukebox.shtml
I was fortunate to witness at Prasad Digital Studio the Recording of the song "Kathaum kuyile..." by Sadhana Sargam. I have seen the hard work and the effort put into these songs not to mention the creativity that Raja fills these songs with.
I am a Raja fanatic but I have not hesitated to appreciate true creativity by ARR etc., but now I can see the point of certain nettors like Sathyavaageeswaran, gopal, pg, etc. who at times cannot even take fair criticism of Raja. How can you take any comment if the so called critics commit gross blasphemy??
THIS IS WHAT SATHYAVAAGEESWARAN ETC MENTION AS RAJA BASHING BY MEDIA. THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS FOR RAJA'S DECLINE IN MARKET VALUE--MIND YOU--NOT QUALITY BUT JUST MARKET VALUE.
I am tired of this mindless criticism of the media of Raja. It may have been Raja's own eccentric behaviour but for Godsake the media must realise that if he remains aloof from the media it is because of such criticisms and misrepresentation which he truly does not deserve.
LASTLY YOU DO NOT HAVE TO APPRECIATE HIM---JUST LEAVE HIM ALONE---THE MUSICALLY ORIENTED PEOPLE WOULD MAKE UP THEIR OWN DECISIONS ABOUT THE SONGS OF KIZHAKUM MERKUM---BUT PLEASE, PLEASE DONT PILE FALSE ACCUSATIONS ON RAJA ( for the sake of kumudam reviewers)
Thanks
Shashi
- From: MPR (@ dyn07.iacc-t23.ndsu.nodak.edu)
on: Thu Feb 12 16:59:10 EST 1998
Shashi:
Is IR recording songs at Prasad again? Tell us more about your experience, if you have any. I'm eagerly waiting :))
- From: Mukund (@ internet-gw1.hea.com)
on: Thu Feb 12 18:03:06 EST 1998
Hi Shashi,
Before claiming that my suggestion of not getting emotional over Kumudam is nonsense - Why did not any one of you come up with the objective explanation of what was really happening earlier itself. (Like you did right now)
First thing you do when some one says a song is copied is
1) You Ignore it if you dont care about it at all.
(IN which case this thread would cease to exist if this is the unanimous feeling).
2) Otherwise, compare the songs and compare the similarity and then if the review is an absurdity
concerned persons here at TFM can flood Kumudham with e-mails to make understand the point.
The practical problem is whether you like Kumudham or not it is read by millions and any such unjustified remarks or reviews should not be let off just like that.
I just tried to bring in some objectivity to the whole issue.
There are just 3 of us right now in this group.
All I wanted was someone to come forth and say
"I heard Vande Mataram and this BGM. This particular beat is not new, it has been around in
these IR songs -----, -----, -----, ----, etc.So the matter of copying is absurd"
I dont find any such objective comparison going on and all I find is a digression into KR's copying
which is not related in any way because - IR is MD. Implies IR is responsible for whatever music that would come forth.
Once again if you guys know any IR's songs containing the same beat pattern - with exact tonalities and accentuating, We can send e-mails to Kumudham to let them that we can discern music better.
- From: MSK (@ dhcp-877019741.qualcomm.com)
on: Thu Feb 12 19:35:23 EST 1998
The point is we in US still don't have a chance to see this Movie. So all we need to know at this point is to find out if anyone has the video. Then we can ascertain the truth.
If it's wrong, I don't mind blasting kumudam with emails asking them to publish an apology..
At least we shd ask kumudam to justify it's stand.
- From: gOpAl (@ 1cust219.tnt1.sarasota.fl.gt.uu.net)
on: Thu Feb 12 19:35:39 EST 1998
Firstly, thanx Shashi for your excellent explanation.
I dont think we fans need to sullen around the idiosyncratic observations of Kumudham, at least in this case. Have we not seen Raaja performing in the past. Is this Raaja's 12th movie? Or his 21st movie? We have seen him scoring music for 100s of movies and when some of die-hard Raaja fans called me over phone and went haywire over the issue, I just said one thing: "There is something wrong some where. Raaja is not at fault."
Look, just becos Shashi came to the defense, i am not writing this. I go out on a broader perspective. My question is why should Raaja take a bit from VM in the first instance? Knowing thoroughly well that VM has been marketed internationally, knowing well that there has been great media hype about VM, why should, of all the people, Raaja, pick bit off the track of VM?
And there are a few, that add fuel to the fire by writing ill of Raaja, just becos, he is ruling the music world, at least, in terms of melody!!
These wishy-washy writers are spread globally from Kumudham to TFM page!!
There is no point in writing to Kumudham as the damage is done and irreparable!
- From: MSK (@ dhcp-877019741.qualcomm.com)
on: Thu Feb 12 19:48:01 EST 1998
I don't think so Gopal. Kumudam can publish a correction and atleast make up for it's mistake..
How abt asking kumudam to justify it's stand it is so sure of it.
- From: Shashi (@ 137.197.35.41)
on: Thu Feb 12 20:46:55 EST 1998
Hi Mukund!
I am sorry if my posting offended you; it was not my intention.
1. My comment about "not getting emotional" is not to say that your comment was nonsense. It should be taken as the comment Kumudam reviewers make IS NONSENSE.
2. I usually dont write often, but you cannot blame me for waiting on this particular discussion thread. In fact today (12th) is the first time I checked this discussion and was outraged by the criticism after I went back to kumudam's homepage and read the whole review. Only after some debating in my own mind did I write about this issue--as I felt it was absolutely essential that Kumudam which usually doesn't talk about music anyway now decides to say something and the first thing they do is cast aspersions.
MPR--I don't know if Raja is recording from Prasad Digital all the time but the songs of Kizhakum Merkum were done here. About my experience I have not written about because whenever I feel like writing about it, I also feel I will not be able to do justice to my experience. However, when time permits and after I get my thoughts collected I will try do that another time.
Once again Mukund I apologize if I had offended you.
Shashi
- From: Rajesh (@ pdxss902.jf.intel.com)
on: Thu Feb 12 21:02:04 EST 1998
Shashi,
That was an excellent explanataion. Waiting to hear about ur experience at Prasad studio.
- From: Nithin Sreedevan (@ nc.pr.mcs.net)
on: Fri Feb 13 01:16:23 EST 1998
Shashi:
Excellent defense of Raaja. Gopal and others, thanks for keeping this issue a burning one. Kumudam is getting greedy and as we are all awared Raaja is now also becoming responsible for the phenomenal journalistic attention and media hype that film music is beginning to attract.
By criticising Raaja, people who once did not buy Kumudam are probably grabbing it to tear it apart. That is my explanation. There was a time, when the media gave little attention to Raaja, because Raaja never looked for publicity through sales talk.
Today, when Raaja is looking for attention in the crowded and cacophonous musical market place, the journalists who once were probably kicked out by Raaja are now taking it upon Raaja!
However, Raaja as usual is giving livelihood to people from various walks of life. May he live long.
By the way, Shashi, LVPrasad studios used to be my favorite haunt in my college days and a few years after, when I nurtured the hopes of singing for Raaja. So, please tell me about your visits to the monumental studio, where Raaja has always composed.
- From: kizi(kumuthathai) (@ bones.deneb.com)
on: Fri Feb 13 09:07:54 EST 1998
MAN I TELL YOU - WE HAVE TO REALLY CHECK THE DATES
OF WHEN KILAKKUM MERKUM WAS RECORDED (I HEARD IT WAS STARTED TWO YEARS BACK AND FOR SOME REASON
IT NEVER GOT RELEASED) AND WE ALL KNOW THAT
VADHE MATRAM WAS RECORDED ONLY LAST YEAR.
WHY CAN'T BE IT IS THE OTHER WAY THAT arr
COPIED THE "TIKUM BUKKUM" BEAT FROM IR.
THE SAME KUMUDHAM DIDN'T EVEN MENTION ABOUT ANYTHING "KATHALUKKU MARIYATHAI"
MUSIC (WHEN EVERY OTHER MAGAZINE SAYS IT IS A
"SORT OF COMEBACK" FOR IR).
"THAMU THUMMU"NU KUMUDHATHAI UDHAICHATHAN PUTHI VARUM.
(sorry, nAnum ungaLai mAthiri uNarchi vasap pattutEn)
- From: Madhan (@ 202.41.117.3)
on: Fri Feb 13 11:42:52 EST 1998
Friends,
KUMUDHAM pathhirikkaiyin kaigairyam patri konjam vilakka muyarchikkiraen.
"NAYAGAN" pada vimarsanathhil, IR music patri " Then paandi cheemaiyiley yendra paadal ketpadharku nanraaga irundhaalum, adharkkaaga, padam muzhuvadhum, thirumba thirumba adhey paattai javvu pol poduvadhu konjam over" - the review went on like this - not even a word of appreciation for the movie's BGM or the songs. NAYAGAN padathhu isaiyaiyey ippadi abathhamaaga vimarsanam seidha indha "Kumudham" kizhakkum maerkum patriyum adaharkku thondriyapadi paesiyiruppadhu ondrum aachariyappaduvadharkkilaai.
So, kavali vaendaam nanbargalae, KUMUDHAM kidakku, " YEN IDUPPU ROMBA YEDUPPU , INDHA IDUUPIRKKU SONDHAKKAAARAR YAAR YENDRU KANDUPIDIPPAVARUKKU, NOORU ROOPAI INAAM " idhu pondru arumaiyaana yedhaavadhu oru nadigaiyin iduppai mudhal pakkathhil kaanbithhu ketkappadum kelvigalukkendraey peyar pona KUMUDHAM IR patri koori seerazhindhaal namakkenna ?
MADHAN.
- From: Madhan (@ 202.41.117.3)
on: Fri Feb 13 11:48:24 EST 1998
Please read "kaigaryam" as " KAINGARYAM", and "adaharkku" as " ADHARKKU " , kavali as
" KAVALAI " in the above posting
- From: Mukund (@ internet-gw1.hea.com)
on: Fri Feb 13 12:23:04 EST 1998
Hi Shashi,
Thanx for the explanation. I had misinterpreted your words. Now I understand. Sorry for having come back so strongly.
As for the fact that the damage has been done and nothing much can be done about it - I dont think so. By sending e-mails to Kumudham and making it publish that this was a mistake on their part would be receiving greater publicity, I feel. Like MSK suggested atleast a explanation can be asked for from them. Probably you can explain them the tecnicalities and ask for an explanation.
BTW, more and more e-mails clearly describe to me the level of Kumudham reviews. So we can simply ignore this whole issue if no significant reply comes back from them.
Bye
Bye,
Mukund
- From: MSK (@ dhcp-877019741.qualcomm.com)
on: Fri Feb 13 14:23:35 EST 1998
I have sent an email to jawahar Palaniappan (Kumudam publisher , SAP's son i guess ..) His email id is on the magazine's web site . I have
expressed the concerns of IR fans like me. Let's see if i get any response..
- From: RAJAN (@ proxy-154.iap.bryant.webtv.net)
on: Fri Feb 13 20:53:43 EST 1998
MSK:
No use. They never replied for any mails.
- From: sree (@ orchid.cs.concordia.ca)
on: Sun Feb 15 03:07:28 EST 1998
So did anyone send a mail to kumudam?.let us send
a mail and watch for the reply.Kumudam has indeed
hurted the sentiments of IR fan's.
- From: SATHIYAVAGEESWARAN (@ client-151-200-126-1.bellatlantic.net)
on: Sun Feb 15 03:48:42 EST 1998
Ilayaraja is the Trend Setter as far as rythm is concerned. He created enormous number of rythms. I hope the rythm that KUMUDHAM mentioned must have beeen used by Ilayaraja long back which ARR could have taken.
ARR never hesitated to take rythms from IR. The rythm used by ARR in "Ottagaththai Kattikko" was put by Ilayaraja in "Raja Kaiya Vachcha" in "Aboorva Sagotharargal" as the starting Gadam piece "Sonnathai Kettuththan Thaalam Poduven". Kamal hits on the Banet of the car to produce that music. The rythm used in "Oruvan Oruvan Mudhalali" is another version (slow) of "Sorggame Enralum Athu Nammooorai pola Varuma".
IR rythm copy adiththar enbathu "THIRUNELVELIKKE ALWA" kadhaidhan.
- From: Krish (@ sb-fw1-ny.i11.advantis.net)
on: Sun Feb 15 15:55:52 EST 1998
The other thing that is stupid about this assumption is that Ilayaraaja actually listened to Vande Matram. I am just a big IR fan and even I don't listen to ARR's albums. To expect IR to actually listen first of all to vande Matram is a big joke.
My theory is that since IR's popularity is again on the rise even without the help of the big banners or big names, the big names are getting concerned. They have started their attack on IR again.
- From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.9)
on: Mon Feb 16 02:31:16 EST 1998
Bones
Your arguement may not be valid. Though the shooting of 'kizakkum mERkkum' was started a couple of years back, the RR would have been done as the last step - just before the release of the movie. May be the songs were recorded at that time.
BTW, in the 'thirai vimarsanam' of ki.mE, it's director has said that he shot the movie within 30 odd days. So the news you got must be wrong.
I am sure that TFMers will not assume that i am defending kumutham in this issue (though it is my favourite magazine). I pointed out the anamoly in Bones' argument.
I repeat - Discussing (even defending) about IR in comparison with any of today's MDs is an insult to IR. True IR fans, please do not get provoked by such statements.
- From: Ravi (@ greed.cs.umass.edu)
on: Mon Feb 16 12:50:34 EST 1998
Krish: Being just an IR fan might be the reason you do not listen to ARR's songs. IR himself might be above such feelings. :-). He has commented in some interview about ARR's music(favourably of course). I presume he didn't do that without listening to any of ARR's music.
- From: Ravi (@ hope.cs.umass.edu)
on: Thu Feb 19 11:38:01 EST 1998
I had written to Mr. Maalan of Kumudham about this thread. He has promised to send a detailed reply once the elections are over. Lets wait and see if he does reply. His comment on the discussions so far.. 'interesting'. :-)
- From: Amar (@ worf.qntm.com)
on: Thu Feb 19 14:02:35 EST 1998
In US, "interesting" when uttered by someone as a response, has a totally different "Connotation" and I doublt it if that "figure of speech" has already travelled to India. And so, when Mr. Maalan of Kumudham responded with "interesting" it should probably have the literal meaning - I think( Interesting! )
- From: Suresh (@ bellbird.qut.edu.au)
on: Mon Feb 23 02:32:30 EST 1998
friends,
the answer for this whole controversy could well rest on who the reviewer is, and what his/her knowledge of film music is. do any of u remember the "minsara kanavu" review in Hindu? it was as though we were witnessing a revolution in film music - the reviewer got so carried away, that almost the first half of the review was devoted to analysing ARRs musical imagination. no criticism of ARR, but he himself would know that MK was not one of his better albums, and the national award he got for that movie was greatly fuelled by media hype, despite the sensational flop of the movie! It is fashionable these days for reviewers to look at any film's music in relation to ARRs composition, and it speaks volumes about their "gnanam". how many masterpieces of IR have been noted in kumudam's reviews honestly? i'm sure maalan would never find merit in any of the arguments seen in this thread. my suggestion is, forget it folks..there's no point trying to redress this. let's find comfort in the song "raaman andaalum raavanan aandalum..."
- From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.9)
on: Mon Feb 23 03:43:57 EST 1998
Suresh
kai kodungkaL. You have reminded the apt song.
- From: RAJAN (@ proxy-115.iap.bryant.webtv.net)
on: Wed Feb 25 09:03:19 EST 1998
In the KUMUDAM issue 12/02/98; Page# 101;
Title: RAHMAN VALIPPU (letters to the editor)
Oru kumudam vasagarin kealvi:
ILLAYARAJA sir, Yennachu? yendru kealvi keattullergal!
Avar APPADIYE thaan irukkiraar!
Ungalukku thaan RAHMAN VALIPPU yendru oru puthiya viyathi thoatriyullathu!
- Va. Thangavelu, Puliyampatti.
- From: Ravi (@ greed.cs.umass.edu)
on: Thu Feb 26 00:01:00 EST 1998
India/S'pore vaasigaLE.. puthu kumudham padiththu vittergaLA? athil intha thread paththi vanthu irukkiradhaam. Please check it out and report..
- From: MSK (@ dhcp-877019741.qualcomm.com)
on: Thu Feb 26 01:44:19 EST 1998
Yes! I would also like to hear abt this . I checked kumudam web site - they have'nt updated the web-site yet ..
Eagerly awaiting ..
- From: R.Krishnakumar (@ giasmdb.vsnl.net.in)
on: Thu Feb 26 10:46:23 EST 1998
KUMUDHAM DATED 3rd March 1998, has it all !
In a mark of apology (It better be), Kumudham has
devoted 3 pages, to this discussion forum, and has
printed many of the mails. The thing is, it is only
making the issue more known. I'm a Ilaiayaraja fan,
but I came to know of all this only today morning
from Kumudham. I do not know wether to laugh or to cry !
NO, I'm not going to listen to VM.. becos I am DEAD SURE that there is absolutely nothing to verify. Publicity here for IR's new films is very poor. I hear about 'Kizhakkum Merkkum' only now. I can only look forward to listen to 'Kizhakku Meerkum'. Long Live IR !
- From: gOpAl (@ 1cust250.tnt1.sarasota.fl.gt.uu.net)
on: Thu Feb 26 12:21:32 EST 1998
Its out in KumudhamDetails awaited. Thank you Ravi.
(So TFMpage goes international in strict sense :))
congrats!!)
Whats Kumudham's stand about the issue?
- From: sree (@ lakshya.cs.concordia.ca)
on: Thu Feb 26 12:34:14 EST 1998
Can anyone give the exact report which has come in Kumudhum.
- From: MSK (@ dhcp-877019741.qualcomm.com)
on: Thu Feb 26 14:22:32 EST 1998
Guys in India ., pls post the exact details as
soon as possible.. I can't wait to see what it says.??
Thanks,
- From: besh_besh (@ bones.deneb.com)
on: Thu Feb 26 23:21:43 EST 1998
OK! OK! This is what came in today's Kumudam.
It is 4 pages - ARR & IR muzikkiramAthiri padams.
Title: Kumudathai udhachAthAn pudhi varum
(nAn summA joke adichEn athai - titleA pOtutAinga!!)
America vAsagargaLin alasal..
American Univ. of MASS vAsagar Ravi ezuthiyathu - neenga pAttukku - IR
ARR musicai copy adithuttArnu ezutha - inga webil orE adithadi...inthanga makkaL ezuthinathu.
AFTER THAT IT IS A CORRECTLY TAMIL PADUTHIFIED CUT-N-PASTE
of almost the whole thread till Friday the 13th.
Let me list the makkal's who appeared:
RAJAN, MSK, MUKUND, SASI, MPR, MADHAN & BONES
till the posting of Madhan on Fri Feb 13 11:42:52 EST 1998
There is NO mention of TFM Page. Ravi cut-n-paste
paNNi anuppiyathai thamizAkkam seithu pOttirukku.
want to know anything else ??
- From: more_be(a)sh (@ bones.deneb.com)
on: Thu Feb 26 23:33:55 EST 1998
The format also the same as we see in the thread here, like:
RAJAN (@ proxy-155.iap.bryant.webtv.net) :
blah blah blah
MSK (@skdfkjsksf):
Names are in Tamil and the machine addresses are in english.
Shahsi's posting about explaining the beat 1,2,3.4
- the long posting - nejamAvE nalla thamizAkkam.
Now only I noticed (kaila Kumudam - monitorla intha thread), they have removed/censored whatever
is NOT appropriate such as mention about AV, Maniratnam,
PAMARAN to KarthikRaja (but Karathik rAja BGM
paNNi irunthAl athu IR's poRuppu - is there)
Nithin Srideven's cacaphonus comments - these are edited out.
"EndA ippadi astuthanamA ezuthurE"nu enga amma sollapOrAnga!!!
- From: Ravi (@ greed.cs.umass.edu)
on: Thu Feb 26 23:55:43 EST 1998
Except for Nithin's comments I guess I had edited out the others before sending it in to Mr. Maalan.
- From: Ravi (@ greed.cs.umass.edu)
on: Thu Feb 26 23:57:52 EST 1998
maranthE pOittEn... Thanks a lot Mr. Sathyakumar.
- From: rOmba_nannA_irukku (@ dyn07.iacc-t23.ndsu.nodak.edu)
on: Fri Feb 27 00:09:24 EST 1998
bones:
Thanks much for your sOOdAna seithi. Is that all? only they published what's going on here? Anything else from their side to justify their statement?
MPR
- From: mugamudi (@ bones.deneb.com)
on: Fri Feb 27 01:51:29 EST 1998
Ravi:
Malan enna ungA chitappAvOda marumaganin pakkaththu vEttu mAmikku therinthavarA ??
ivLo seekiramA publish paNNitAnga !!!!
MPR:
NO Kumudam dosn't have any supporting/opposing statement
on this. They have just published the converstations of this thread
with photos of IR and ARR.
And a cartoon kind of drawing with a computer monitor
and makkal covering their face by holding some mugamudi
- From: dumukam (@ bones.deneb.com)
on: Fri Feb 27 03:47:51 EST 1998
After the morning meetings, now I got the time to give you more info.....
I forgot to include Gopal & Nithin Sridevan's comment also appear in the article.
After the big title: kumudhathai udhachAlthAn puththi varum"
The other two prominent "hilighted comments" are:
America vAsagargaL seerukiRArgaL
"intha beat-ai ERkanavE rAjAvOda pazaiya pAttu
ethilayAvathu van-thirukkumnu thONuthu
Here goes the order:
MSK: kumudham cinema vimarsanathil.....
yArAvathu padam pArthavanga oppittu solla mudiyumA ?
RAJAN:
kumudam vimarsanathil pothuvA BGM patri ezutha mAttAnga..ippa IR copy adichArnu ezuthi irukkAnga.
MSK:
Kartikraja uthavi paNNi irunthu "vand Mathram" isai-ai suttirunthA athukku poRuppu IR. nAn padam pArkalai,
IR copy adichiruppArnu thOnalai. Rajan, neenga padam pArtheengaLa ??
Mukund:
kumudam ezuthinathukku En uNarchivasap padureenga... nalla IR artcle onnu konja nALaikku mun
mukudam veLi ittathu...
KM padathil varum "aiyA voodu" vithyAsAgarin "thAmarai poovukkum" sAyalla irunthathai kavanicheengaLA ??
sasi:
Kumudam mEl En kObam padak koodAthA ? En ?
Rajan sonna mAthiri kumudam BGMai vimarasanam paNNathu kidaiyAthu.... 1,2,3,4..beat explanation..
thayavu seithu Rajavai kutram sAttAtheergaL.
MPR:
sasi, IR innum Prasad studiOvilthAn recording seigirArA ?
GOPAL:
nandri sasi. rAja patri ippadi vandthaum pala IR rasigargaL
enakku phone paNNi varuththap pattAnga. avangaLukku nAn oNNE oNNuthAn sonnEn.
ithu raja thappu illai. vERa engayO thappu nadanthirukku.
pOyum Poyum VMil irunthA IR copy adippAr? athu
ulagamellAm vikkiRa casatte...apram
ithellAm kumudathirku anuppuRathu waste. ERkanavE
intha varigaLai ezuthi evvaLavu pAZ paNNa mudiyumO
avvaLavu pAZ paNNitAnga.
MSK:
nAn appadi ninaikalai. kumudam maRuppu pOttu thavaRai thiruthikkalAm.
SASI:
MPR, IR innum Prasadil record paNNurArA endru enakku theriyalai...
NITHIN:
Sasi, Rajavirku vAthittathirku nandri.
innikum pathrikaigaL isaiyai ivvaLavu kavanikka kAraNamE RajathAn. avar publicitykku alainthathillai.....Raja eppavum pOla makkalukku
santhOsaththai koduthittu irukkAr.
kizi kumudhathai (Bones):
nAma KM recording eppa nadanthichunnu check paNNanum..."thammu thammu"nu kumudhathai udhachAthAn puththi varum. (sorry, nAnum ungaLai
mAthiri uNarchivasap pattutEn)
MADHAN:
nanbargaLE, kumudam kaingaryathai konjam viLakka muyarchikirEn. Nayagan padathil "theN pAndi" pAttu nalla irukkuthu,
athukkAga padam muzuthum athE pAttai thirumba thirumba pOttu javvu mAthiri ezuppathu overnu ezuthinAnga.
ippadi patta kumudam KM patri pEsi iruppathu ondrum Acharyam illai, SO nanbargaLE kavalai vENdAm.
kumudam kidakku.
thoguppu: ranjan
photos: R. gopal.
-------------------------------------
- From: MSK (@ dhcp-877019741.qualcomm.com)
on: Fri Feb 27 13:17:45 EST 1998
Damn! My feeling is that they have edited in such a way to look like it's none of their business and as though reporting a non-kumudam related incident. They shd have explained/justified their stand.! Kumudam does'nt have the gutts to do that.
If kumudam had come down strongly saying that "Yes ! the comment on the movie review is true !!! "., that would have proved the authenticity of the news. Now it's obvious that they are covering up their blunder . But that is nothing new to Kumudam.They are chicken.
When IR composed at RPO, Sujatha was the editor at that time for kumudam. He reported saying that IR was not the first asian to compose at RPO, and that Zubin mehta etc have already doen that. Then a reader wrote explaining the difference between composing and conducting symphonies. Zubin etc have conducted but IR was the first asian to compose . Then Sujatha said "I stand corrected". That is journalism. Not this !!
Anyway, atleast now kumudam knows it can't keep spreading stories unnoticed..
- From: Mukund (@ internet-gw1.hea.com)
on: Fri Feb 27 15:23:05 EST 1998
Hi guys,
I feel like a complete fool. Looking at the editing it looks as if I was supporting Kumudham and suspecting IR.
Conspicuous removal of the sentences
"I am sure this would have been used in one of IR's earlier movies" has completely changed the way I expressed myself.
As far as Ayya voodu, is there a better place than TFM forum to discuss this matter ? I never thought this would have been twisted in such a manner.
Anyway, like MSK said atleast they would think twice before spreading such unreliable remarks.
Mukund
- From: NOV (@ 202.184.134.10)
on: Fri Feb 27 19:51:49 EST 1998
Bones - I didn't expect you to give a word-for-word account of the article! For the first time in my life, I bought Kumudam as I was so excited that TFM-DF is being published. :-))
If I had known that you will give the account, I wouldn't have wasted $1.60. :-))
Guys - You ahould all be proud that your comments have made it to print, thanks to Ravi. Sorry Mukund - they reported what you had said, but it was deliberately taken out of context. Now you know what journalism is all about. :-))
- From: enaththa_kannaiyA (@ dyn07.iacc-t23.ndsu.nodak.edu)
on: Fri Feb 27 20:14:33 EST 1998
ennaththa ezhuthi, ennaththa panna.
- From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg)
on: Sat Feb 28 00:09:21 EST 1998
Mukund:
There is a lesson here for us, I guess! I feel
the material on this thread should have been
carefully edited (to keep only the really relevant
portions) before it was sent to Kumudham. Ravi
certainly wouldn't have expected Kumudham fellows
(who is this Ranjan?) to do some clever editing
and distort the whole thing. Overall, if you look
at it, I think Kumudham only got good mileage out
of this thread, making Ilayaraja look even worse
than before this Kumudham article appeared! The
only plus point of the whole exercise was that
the forum got some attention. (I wonder whether
Kumudham gave the http address of this forum in
the article!)
Anyway, if you plan to meet IR in the future for
an autograph or something, forget it! He'll be
waiting for you with a hockey stick in his hand :-))
- From: Ravi (@ greed.cs.umass.edu)
on: Sat Feb 28 01:59:12 EST 1998
I really didn't guess that they are going to edit things like this.. in the first place, I didn't think they will publish whatever I sent them. :). I did take out things which I felt weren't relevant to teh topic.. Mukundanudhu maranthu pOchchu.. I should have deleted it.. If I had left in Rajan's comments about KR Kumudham would have had a field day.. appuram IR-KR namma mEla casE pOttu iruppaanga. :)
I am sorry for the misquotations.
- From: Madhan (@ 202.41.117.3)
on: Sat Feb 28 12:55:16 EST 1998
Kumudhatthai nandraaga udhaikkavendum nanbargalae.
yennudaiya remarks on " iduppu romba yeduppu" about Kumudam has been very conveniently deleted - that was the punch line - how dare did they edit it ?
I think we have to send a stronger reply to the editor.
Dear friends, I am more pained than any of you because, I happen to be a free-lance journalist myself and I have worked for the Bangalore edition of " Indian Express " before joining Goa University for my Ph.D and I can tell you with assurance that the press nowadays has lost much of its credibility - and Tamil magazines like Kumudham have lost much of this - appappo vaalai narukki vaithhaal thaan uruppiduvaargal
- From: MSK (@ dhcp-877019741.qualcomm.com)
on: Sat Feb 28 14:59:33 EST 1998
I also feel the same. We have to send our concern to the editor for the misquotations. Kumudam may not care or this may look like an endless loop, but we are bound to send our protest to this. Let me know u'r opinion and we can collectively forward our views. What say guys .??
Ravi, U'r inputs are very valuable. Do u think we could write again to kumudam.??
- From: Nithin Sreedevan (@ nc.pr.mcs.net)
on: Sat Feb 28 23:01:38 EST 1998
LET US FIRE.
I think we can printout this thread after getting all signatures ( I mean a one line statement from the readers here) and then send this one out.
Let me tell this right now to Kumudam: PLEASE RELOCATE. Yedathey kaali pannu.
- From: Ravi (@ greed.cs.umass.edu)
on: Sun Mar 1 02:03:27 EST 1998
My feeling is that we shouldn't do anything hasty. Whatever comments we send them are going to reflect on TFM-DF community as a whole and hence should be thought through.
- From: ithAndA_vAzkai (@ bones.deneb.com)
on: Sun Mar 1 02:33:44 EST 1998
MakkaL, take it easy!
Let us NOT "uNarchivasapattufy" again.
The whole idea of this DF is to share info and have some
good clean fun - that is all!.
Don't be emotional and just forget about what Kumudam has published.
There is NO point in dragging this further, write to
Kumudam - telling (y)our views. This is NOT a ulagamaga issue to think about and proceed further.
IMO, the topic itself is a thEvail illA vishyam.
Let us NOT waste our energies/time further on this
issue and get emotional thEvai illAmal.
FORGET IT.
LET US KEEP GOING with the fun in DF - "DUM DUM"nu like ENERGIZER BUNNY.
- From: Ravi (@ greed.cs.umass.edu)
on: Sun Mar 1 03:46:25 EST 1998
Bones: As usual no one can put it as agreeably as you can. ;).
- From: Mukund (@ internet-gw1.hea.com)
on: Mon Mar 2 13:00:23 EST 1998
Hi guys,
SK: Yes :-). I learned a lot from this process. Like what NOV said I learned what journalism is. No offense meant Madhan !. Best expression of feelings was done buy "Ennatha Kannaiya".
I personally feel we can of course send our reaction to this "editing", but my feeling it should be quite diplomatic and a firm letter. Especially it should not show us being tense in any way about this issue. Just tell them we expect them to publish this too. (whether they eventually do it or not).
-Mukund.
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