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Things very hard to notice in IR songs

Topic started by MPR (@ dyn07.iacc-t23.ndsu.nodak.edu) on Mon Jan 19 13:53:05 EST 1998.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• From: MSK (@ dhcp-877019741.qualcomm.com) on: Mon Jan 19 20:41:31 EST 1998
  
  #1. The one that flashes my mind immediately is the humming (la la etc..) . Most of the IR songs have a chorus hum mixed with the interlude. While listening to the song , most of the time, it's so subtle and sync's well with the tune ,that u fail to notice. U think of a few IR songs that u don't remember having a hum , then u listen carefully u'll find a piece in most of the songs..
  
  #2.
  The other is merging the voice with the music. He does it so well that u fail to notice the difference between the instrument and the vocal. A typical example is " Solla solla enna perumai " in Ellam inba mayam.(right after the first stanza ). Another example is
  "Appa appa thithikkum " in Japanil Kalyanaraman (both songs by SPB , Who else..??) . But equal credit goes to the singer for implementing IR's technique.
  
  #3. "Vaa Vaa majal manjal malare" in Rajathi Raja - There is this effect that it looks like 2 voices singing together, but the voices are delayed , so that it sounds more or less like an echo , but with a very pleasing effect .
  -I guess there are other songs like this. But could'nt recollect now..
  
  
  More Later
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: deva_fan (@ bones.deneb.com) on: Tue Jan 20 03:54:35 EST 1998
  
  Lately the nice tunes which I used to notice
  during 80's.
  
  
• From: Gopal (@ 1cust164.tnt1.sarasota.fl.gt.uu.net) on: Tue Jan 20 09:22:10 EST 1998
  
  Hey Bones Sathya! Looooooong time Nooooooo see!
  How are you?
  
  
• From: MPR (@ dyn07.iacc-t23.ndsu.nodak.edu) on: Tue Jan 20 18:12:06 EST 1998
  
  MSK:
  
  Thanks for the response. You've written what I wanted to say. Yes, there are so many things which you won't notice in IR songs, unless you listen to them properly.
  
  will be back with songs and things...
  
  
• From: rajesh (@ erchh001.nt.com) on: Thu Jan 22 12:32:38 EST 1998
  
  Hi all,
  I'd like to add a few things here.
  
  One favorite musical form which IR uses is the counterpoint.
  Ex. in the starting piece of the song "Intha maan" from Karakatakaran, its starts with strings. After the strings are played once, the flute comes in with a different melody.with the strings still in the background. The net sound is
  a good harmony, yet the timing of the flute melody and the strings is mathematically perfect!!
  
  Similarly in many songs there are two voices, singing a different tune at the same time, but sounds in harmony.
  Ex. In "Poomalaiyae thol seravaa", and also in the starting piece in the song "Oh baby" from KM.
  
  The other point to note in almost all IR songs is the use of violins for harmony in the background with the voice in the foreground. The presence of these violins in the backgroung makes the song more pleasing.
  
  More later.
  
  Rajesh.
  
  
• From: MPR (@ dyn07.iacc-t23.ndsu.nodak.edu) on: Thu Jan 22 18:09:48 EST 1998
  
  Sorry guys, I couldn't continue the discussion due to work load. Anyway here is my question and lets see how many people noticed the following thing:
  
  'antha nilAva thAn' (muthal mariyAthai) pAdalil oru idaththil chorus (may be we can say oru saththam) by some other male singer varugirathu. entha idam enru yArukkavathu theriyumA?
  
  
• From: mannAru (@ ns.arraycomm.com) on: Thu Jan 22 20:35:34 EST 1998
  
  MSK:
  
  Good observations. I have also noticed some
  of them. The point is if u keep digging, u
  keep getting new things from the song.
  That is IR! Some of the songs are so simple
  in tune
  and have mesmerising effect. Few examples
  
  "Kannan Oru Kai.." from BatraKali
  "En kanmani.." from Buvana Oru ?/chittu kuruvi
  "rAsAthi..." from mAnikkam?
  
  IR supports the main melody with so many
  harmonic melodies(i don;t know the technical
  name for this). The interlude melodies are
  related to the main tune but they are not the
  same. IR fills his songs and BGM with such
  harmonic melodies and stir the heart.
  
  Rajesh:
  
  If u can give more examples of "counter-points"
  of IR it will be very useful for people like me. Thanks.
  
  MPR:
  
  I had that cassette with me in office.
  I have listened to the song twice after seeing
  this post. Could not identify any form of
  chorus in the song, not even in the interludes.
  (are u referring to kind of mettalic sound which
  comes in the first interlude
  
  Can u please tell me what u are referring to:
  
  Ayyo Yen Thalaya pArthA theriyalayA? perisay
  kitte irukke! :)
  
  mannAru
  
  
• From: mannAru (@ ns.arraycomm.com) on: Fri Jan 23 00:22:47 EST 1998
  
  Hi:
  
  Correction for the above:
  "rAsAthi.." is from Poovarasan.
  
  mannAru
  
  
• From: MPR (@ dyn07.iacc-t23.ndsu.nodak.edu) on: Sat Jan 24 10:53:20 EST 1998
  
  mannAru:
  
  mArgazhi mAsam parthu
  (saptham)
  mArula ...
  
  intha irandu varigalukkum nadivil varigirathu
  
  
  
• From: bb (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Wed Feb 17 00:57:28 EST 1999
  
  guess this thread ended abruptly.. there are lots more to discover in IR's songs.
  
  
• From: karthi (@ lab3.theatrium.net) on: Wed Feb 17 02:21:05 EST 1999
  
  Hi guys, it is indeed very hard to notice too in IR's songs because it's not there: the way the charanam blends with the pallavi or anupallavi - it doesn't blend naturally or soothingly!
  
  
• From: Raj (@ hydrec2.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Wed Feb 17 03:03:02 EST 1999
  
  Karthi! You have a good sense of humour:). Ofcourse, I must really appreciate your judgement that we will understand that you are joking rather than being serious when you said the above statement. Anyway, I see that no one has mentioned about "charanam merging with pallavi" as a thing hard to notice in the posts previous to yours. So, I a m a little bafled why you said "Indeed" !:)
  
  
• From: bb (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Wed Feb 17 03:30:33 EST 1999
  
  karthi:-)) needless to say it blends soothingly in the songs PS has sung for IR??!!!!!!
  
  did anyone notice an autorickshaw horn sound in the starting of vaLaiyOsai kalakala...
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.150) on: Wed Feb 17 07:50:43 EST 1999
  
  IR has a sense of humor sometimes when he plays solo guitar; he marries the chin-chin sound (JALRA?) to it. Example is the first interlude of `Anantha thenkatru Thalattuthe' (Manippur Mamiyar).
  
  
• From: karthi (@ lab1.theatrium.net) on: Thu Feb 18 02:06:43 EST 1999
  
  Raj! No! I am SERIOUS!!!
  
  BB! That's news to me! PS-kkunnu IR thaniyaa tunes vachirundAraa enna?
  
  
• From: karthi (@ lab1.theatrium.net) on: Thu Feb 18 02:10:31 EST 1999
  
  Raj! Unakkaaga oNNu: In MaarugO MaarugO Maaru Gayee JorugO JorugO (original version not the latest one by Kamal), I liked that touch of guitar between the very 1st 2 lines - have you noticed it?
  
  
• From: Murali Sankar (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Mon Feb 22 12:40:17 EST 1999
  
  The percussion in "thendral vandhu theendumpodhu" is very subtle. It just fuses with the violins.
  
  
• From: rajiv (@ 208.238.117.18) on: Fri Feb 26 11:53:02 EST 1999
  
  how about IR's use of the bass guitar? in most cases, its very light and hides in the background.. but gives the song a whole new dimension! remember 'manram vanda', 'kannan vandu paduginran'.. and LOTS of other songs!
  
  
• From: nakkeeran (@ inet-fw4-o.oracle.com) on: Fri Feb 26 15:05:02 EST 1999
  
  also notice the use of (bass)guitar in 'pani vizhum malar vanam..' song! excellent, isn't it?!
  
  
• From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Sat Feb 27 14:11:45 EST 1999
  
  for IR's bass lines one will hve to start a separate thread (or maybe a forum); so let's discuss about
  other things. (btw, IR's bass lines, as few say, are not hard to notice!)
  
  
• From: Venkatesh (@ ww2.ssbcd.co.om) on: Sun Jul 16 07:38:44 EDT 2000
  
  On an analysis, it looks like IR is the one who included many devotional passages (Tamil/Sanskrit slokas) in his songs, to the maximum possible extent, within the context of the situation. Eg.
  
  1) Starting from 'Janani Janani' of Thai Moogambigai (Adi Shankara's Kanaka Dhara)
  
  2) 'Nadhiyil Aadum Poovanam' from Kadhal Oviyum (again Adi Shankara's)
  
  3) 'Kadhal Oviyum' from Alaigal Oyvathillai (ShatamAnam Bhavati stotram)
  
  4) 'Thendralai KandukoLLu MAnE' from Nilave Mugam Kattu (he has done a voice-over of 'Neelotpala patrAni' slokam and its
  Tamil translation, which beautifully merges with the 2nd interlude of the song)
  
  5) 'PArtha Vizhi' song from Guna (NAyagi NAnmugi - Abirami Anthathi)
  
  6) Starting of 'NAdha Vinodhangal' from Salangai Oli (Kalidasa's Raghuvamsam - 'Vagarthaviva Samprukthau')
  
  etc. etc. Please add the left-outs.
  
  I see the above as his love for literature and his staunch devotion.Your comments welcome.
  
  
• From: Vel (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Sat Feb 1 08:51:28 EST 2003
  
  Thought this is a good thread to revive...had good time reading "old responses" anyway :-)
  
  
• From: Vel (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Sat Feb 1 08:54:18 EST 2003
  
  In many songs, one recognizes a carnatic undercurrent only if when one consciously hears into the song...
  
  Very very subtle in many cases...
  
  
• From: Vel (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Sat Feb 1 08:59:12 EST 2003
  
  I am copy pasting an interesting thing i read from one of IR's yahoo groups...This one is by my friend Vicky....read on & enjoy...
  
  
  Hi All..
  
  Karthik Rajagopal has again started a topic that’s very hard to resist, not to comment. The 9th chords in Raaja’s music… Wah !! What a topic…. When I think about the significance just an extra note (swara) added to a particular root chord to make it a special chord like a 7th or 9th, its unbelievable to notice the moods that they create. For one who understands this, Music becomes a child's play and he/she can simply do whatever they feel like doing with swaras… Of course, Raaja is among those extremely gifted souls who can play with most weirdest combination of swaras and yet come out phenomenally successful in thier novel attempts!!! I wonder while composing is there anyone else out there who can visualize at a meta-level, in mind, how does a Dm 9th would sound instead of a D Minor ..
  
  Well, in any 9th chords (Both major ninth and minor ninth) When you add a 'periya Ri' to the root chord, it gives that respective 9th. When I try to realize what an added feel can this big Ri introduce, Raaja bowls me out for a duck, not letting me to conclude that a 9th chord can be used only on Such and such situations.. Because he has used it for almost all possible situations in Cine-Music. But when I try to give it a closer look, May be I get off the mark with the inference that, a 9th Chord certainly gives a “Reengaaram idum” effect in your ears… (I really can’t find a good English word for the Difficult Tamil word ‘Reengaaram’.. May be Reverberating or Resounding or Resonating or Rich ????)
  Because in a major or a minor chord the gap between Sa and Ga is actually
  large.. Hence this big ‘Ri’ comes in between like a Norwegian peace delegation on Sri Lanka-LTTE peace process… So when you play it Sa + Ri + Ga + Pa, It gives that resonating effect…
  
  If Nobel consortium ever introduces a Prize for innovation in Music, Raaja would have bagged it for the way he has handled the 9th chords. He has exploited the reverberating nature of this 9th chords by playing it in a Guitar thro’ phaser!!! This can be evidently noticed in Songs like 'Uravenum pudiya vanil'... When Janaki sings the pallavi of this song,a guitar (with phaser) simply gives the root minor 9th chord in a arpeggio style.. Ada Ada.. The fear which one would have when you fall in love for the first time is beautiful expressed by the 9th… The song “ Hey I love you !! I Love you !!” is another example.. The way the song starts in Cm9th with the phased output of the guitar simply mesmerizes you.. Raaja dedicates the prelude of this song for 9th chords like Cm9th, Fm9th, A#M9th, D#M9th from his fleet… Amazing!!!
  (Note: If you don’t understand what a phaser is, it’s a electronic gadget which distorts the output of music by sending sound signals again and again with a phase lag.. Often its connected with a Guitar… Our traditional instruments like Thambura and Moresingh have a inbuilt Phaser in
  them.. A matter of hobour for us to be proud about the sound engineering done by our ancestors I must say!!!)
  
  Raaja mostly deletes the 5th note (or the Pa) from the 9th chord.. I don’t know why, but he always prefers a 9th chord to sound like that… But if you see the end result it produces, its worth giving a second Nobel prize !! All of us only remember the prelude of Illamai Idho Idho Idho as, Kamalhassan slowly walking to a bike, starting it. As the tempo of the prelude increases, He revvvs up his bike and when it reaches a peak he yells “Hi Every body.. Wish you a Happy new year…..” and the song is off to a Magnum opus.. But did anyone realize that its nothing but Cm9th played without G (Or Pa).. Raaja repeats this trick in lots of other occasions… During the second interlude starting of the song “ Ooru sanam Thoongiruchu….” In the song “Sem poovae. Poovae” during the words “Padai kondu nadakkum manmadha silaiyo” a beautiful backing of FM9th (Again without Pa) can be heard.. In the second interlude of the song in the Telugu chiranjeevi movie which is the origianl tune of hindi song
  “Dhak Dhak karnae laga” (I forgot the telugu song..), Raaja does it again… There are whole lot of songs that I can think off…. He seem to have
  mastered the art of beautifying Sivaranjani with minor 9th … In India 24 hours, for Mohanam pieces he has poignantly used Major 9ths...
  
  The third innovation in 9th chords is using them consecutively on a higher octave followed by the same chord on a lower octave… For example, "Vaa vaa Anbae Anbae" from Agni Nakshathram… When the second interlude starts, a Piano simply plays Cm9th (in half timings) in a higher octave.. then in lower octave… For two bars… Then the violin takes over…Next is in the movie Guru .. Between the lines of the song “ Perai chollava” and “ Adhu Gnyamaguma” you hear a chord.,.. Its nothing but minor 9th played consecutively on a higher octave and then on a lower octave….In the song “ Valiyosai” in ‘ Satya’ in the second BGM before the humming
  of Lata and SPB begins, the BGM starts with a E minor 9th chord followed by a half bass guitar piece . In the second bar the same E m9th is played in a octave higher… Aha!! The effect that it creates is heavenly
  !!!! Same thing he does it again in the interludes of the song Naan Thedum
  Sevvandhi poovidhu… Koodu vittu Koodu payura madhiri, Octave vittu octave payum vilaiyattu!!! :-) I run out of words to explain more…
  
  BTW did you guys know that the all time favorite song of Eagles, ‘Hotel California’ starts with Bm9th. …Surely not a co-incidence!!!!!!!!! Great people think alike… eh??
  
  With Love - Vicky
  
  
• From: chandru (@ 219.93.186.130) on: Wed Jul 2 00:58:35 EDT 2003
  
  how can i download Karakatakaran songs?
  
  

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