Ilayaraja is on his way down...!

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Ilayaraja is on his way down...! Ilayaraja is on his way down...!

Topic started by Nammaooruvalen (@ 202.184.134.10) on Tue Jul 15 23:32:31 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

Responses:

From: Nammaooruvalen (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Tue Jul 15 23:50:12 EDT 1997

I know I am going to get a lot of bashing for daring to make this statement in this forum!
Let me make one thing clear before the rotten eggs come my way...
I am (or is it "was") a great fan of Ilayaraja since his very early days in this part of the region. I will be the first one to admit that it was IR who brought recognition to MD's to the general public. Being the youngest in a family of seven, I faced a lot of flak from other members from the MSV and V-R eras. In the mid-eighties, I would gather with my friends and dissect each and every of IR's songs and marvel at the freshness and uniqueness (PS: None of us have any carnatic background - we are among the majority of lay people who appreciate music for what it is.) Now that I have made the above qualifications, let me get on with my case.
Methinks IR has lost his steam. His decline could partly be caused by his ego, but largely due to his inability to give us something new (not necessarily to keep up with times). What would you consider the last best movie of IR? Devar Magan? When was that released?
Granted he gave some wonderful songs, running into hundreds if not thousands, BUT all those were in the past.
His old faithfuls Kamalahassan, Rajni Kanth, Bharathi Raja, Maniratnam, Balachander, Bharathiraja, AVM studios have all forsaken him. Why is this so?
In addition to this, he insists on using playback singers who are simply no good such as his daughter Bavatharani and one other male singer (I can't remember his name).
Generally, people are being turned off by his recent releases. What do you think...?
Hope this will become a lively chat. (Let's not talk about ARR and Deva for now)
I am ready with a 100 umbrellas ... come on ... fling away!
From: kumar (@ 148.5.30.79) on: Wed Jul 16 00:55:15 EDT 1997

True, Raja was always
way down to my heart. I wasnt dissapointed
by recent avatharam, chandaraleka, muthukalai
kalapani, swarna samaram, devadai, raman abdulla. Two kannada movie scores also
went very well. What's more I need. It appears
that he went down because these movies were'nt great shakes at all. Many good score's
like 'talattu padava', 'innisai mazhai' went unnoticed earlier because of the movies, same thing is happening now thats all.
From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on: Wed Jul 16 04:14:06 EDT 1997

I DON'T think IR is on his way down. It may be
just simply that he is losing interest in
seriously doing film music, and wants to
other creative music close to his heart.
From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on: Wed Jul 16 04:14:59 EDT 1997

I DON'T think IR is on his way down. It may be
just simply that he is losing interest in
seriously doing film music, and wants to do
other creative music close to his heart.
From: Gopal Prasad (@ host-207-53-1-155.atl.bellsouth.net) on: Wed Jul 16 16:48:48 EDT 1997

I dont think there can be any debate here!! Its common that a man has a peak and a down in life. Thats it! Time has answers for everyone! Nothing is immortal! In Ilays case he has done more than something thats humanly possible in the realms of film music and in general the field of music!!
Ilay, in commercial terms went down way back in 1994. As Vikaten had written about Ilay, he is in the third stage of his musical career. The phase where everything is tranquil and bliss! Musical composers in the film world fade into nothing after their "performance".Its definitely different in Ilays case. Ilay has not been the "yet another film musician" kind. We have got a great composer who is capable of producing much greater music than ever thanks to his genius. His music is no more restricted to the tinsel screens. Its way beyond that! We can look forward to hearing his innovative, melodious musical compositions in tamil, carnatic, western classical
music. He has shown his interest toward these areas by performing in Auditoriums since 1994. His innovative "Panchamukhi" is one clear example. Writing him off the film world does not tantamount to his exit from the music world on the whole!! Although it is sad that due to commercial reasons his symphony has not seen the day light, fans like me are eagerly awaiting the same! I do agree to some extent with the school of his fans expecting him not to sign anymore movies, yet, his music
in the movies are sure quality enhancers today, considering the sordid state of tamil movies. His midas touch could be enjoyed be it BGM or songs in the movies Valli, DevarMagan, Kolangal, Ponnumani, Avathaaram, Siraichaalai.... I believe Devadhai's BGM is excellent. So, it goes to say that whoever is likely to use his services shall stand to benefit. How on earth are we to listen to this great composer's music but for his films? He has produced enough music for movies that producing solo audio/video music albums would only sound out of place. Commercially it is not possible to do that.

"When human power becomes so great and original that we can account for it only as a kind of divine imagination, we call it genius."
--William Crashaw
From: Chandrasekaran (@ proxyf10.cyberway.com.sg) on: Wed Jul 16 23:58:00 EDT 1997

I agree with Gopal Prasad. Every man in his life has ups and downs. But for IR, he let other music directors enter the film when he was busy making his symphony. There was a long pause in his film music career as he was doing the symphony. It is not that he is declining but escalating in other forms of music.
From: Anand Mahadevan (@ 200-171-46.ipt.aol.com) on: Mon Jul 21 20:30:59 EDT 1997

I am of the view that IR has lot of music in him but he is searching for the right combination.If you take Tamil movies for the past 4 years,there is hardly any movie worth a mention.We are talking about the 92-96 period.IR needs the correct movie to get him back.I am not sure wether I am invoking another thread but this year's national film awards was a big joke."Minsara kannavu" did'nt deserve any award.It was one more AR run of the mill stuff.Coming back to IR,its a matter of time before he hits back.Tamil film music in general has reached abysmal levels with guys who have bare minimal muscial knowledge composing songs.
I think only IR can give back some respectablity to the whole scene.I am sure we are in for one more IR spell.Maybe a Kamal,IR combination could do the trick.
From: Nammaooruvalen (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Tue Jul 22 02:27:17 EDT 1997

To: Kumar
Thalattu Paadava songs were hits whilst Innisai Mazhai songs were rubbish. There were a lot of movies which were bad but the songs were super duper hits, so your argument doesn't hold water - Sorry!

To: Sathiya Keerthi
Can't accept your argument either - if he is not interested in film music, then he should just quit that field instead of giving us crap and destroying the good name he has built so far. But that is the trouble with nammavar - they just don't give up, do they?

To: Gopal Prasad
I rest my case with your argument - you have indeed admitted that Ilayaraaja is not so great any more (but you have said that in many more words). But why don't he just SIMPLY stop doing movies and leave with grace. We all admit that he is a genius - but the time has come for him to bid adieu to movie music.
I take exception to your statement about "the sordid state of tamil movies today." These are the exact statements made 22 years ago when Ilayaraja came into the movie world. He reigned for many years to come. Would you bet your last dollar that ARR and/or Deva won't last?

To: Chandrasekaran
Don't joke with us Chandra....! "Ilayaraaja letting other music directors enter the film when he was busy making his symphony?" If he had his way, I'm sure nobody else would be MDs for Tamil movies. We have seen people like Chandrabose, SA Raajkumar who were composing in mid-80s, during the peak of Ilayaraaja. But they could not beat him, because he was still the best then. But today, the scenario is VERY different....

To: Anand Mahadevan
Give me the right movie, and I will make a great MD! (Ha, ha ha) Are you saying that all these while Ilayaraaja was successful only because he got the right movies?
Fans of Ilayaraja must admit that he is unable to provide POPULAR music anymore and that is the bottom line - (no matter what you may say about Minsara Kanavugal - it certainly contains wonderful songs enjoyed almost by all sections of the community.)
Best of luck in your waiting for him to make a comeback... maybe like Sridevi singing "senthoora poovey, senthoora poovey" at the end of the movie...
From: sathyakumar (@ bones.deneb.com) on: Tue Jul 22 06:59:42 EDT 1997

Nammoru is right, as for as Tamil movies are concerned
IR is gone. There are many factors :
- his enthu is gone,
- ARR is PUYAL VEGA entry (and thisai thirupified makkal's
taste and makkal were to some extent needed a break
from IR's music),
- egovirku adi,
everybody went dead-againt him and ditched him.
- status change
Recently I was talking to a cine producer and he
mentioned that IR got his max salary for Thalapathy
25Laks (otherwise his range seems 10Lakhs) but
ARR started getting 1 crore after 2/3 years.
Money plays a role in deciding who is the topper
in the KATHIK-KUTHTHU cinema field.

And regarding the symphony, I don't know anything,
I can't differntiate good from bad. The only think
I am happy about symphony is that it has come from OUR Rajaa.
But there are signs of bad wibes:
It is almost two years since it got performed but there
is NO sign of releasing CD - nobody seems interested - why ?

SONY rejected IR's request to release the symphony CD, after
listening that.
(same SONY has approached ARR to make a CD for the 50th year
Independence deal "world peace" and ARR is working with some
GREAT musician from Pakistan)

Regarding the quality of symphonie I read that during
symphonie season in London - IR's stuff was played for a
matinee show in one of the halls (that show was basically
arranged by an Indian - Desi deal).
I know IR's fans ennai adika waruveenga - ethO enakku therinja
paditha vishayam ithu - ennai thituvatharku mun please see the
symphonie deal in:

http://www.notam.uio.no/nmi/NORDIC/retro.htm

What was the good/great stuff you heard about symphonie ?

What IR is good/great at is TFM and he is now certainly down
in that. One recent ENTHU news was that IR is going to be
the MD for "ALEX" - the next Rajini movie. In addition, if
KB, BRaaja and Mani go back to Raaja - MAY BE he gets his
enthu back (but I doubt that!).

As for as movies are concerened, he can't do anything to become
what he used to be - so only thing is stay back - do few movies
per year - bring the sons to the front. In the mean time, for
his own satisfaction do some extra-movie experimentation.
From: Ravi (@ eagle.vapower.com) on: Tue Jul 22 08:25:18 EDT 1997

People got tired of IR after 20 years. When Rahman burst into TFM i was happy that i could expect some really good songs from IR (similar to the ones in the 80's) but he chose to remain low-profile. To become commercially sucessfull MD these days you have to cater to the taste of people in the 15- 30 age group. IR must change his style and at the same time without sounding ARRish, if he wants to stage a comeback. Or he can be like Borg (chose to retire in the same year after Mac beat him in Wimbledon '81)

Ravi
From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Tue Jul 22 13:14:53 EDT 1997

IR is in a way too good to be compared with MDs like ARR, Deva. Let us accept that he was a great composer and gave excellent songs to TFM. His songs will speak of his musical genius, unlike the songs which most MDs nowadays give that are kuppai and repetitive.

A man who composes symphony is not definitely an ordinary musician. There might be a lot of commercial reasons behind SONY not marketing IR's symphony.

We are at a loss if IR quits TFM and does some excellent research on music, because we will be devoid of quality music. People will then realize that they had lost a good MD.

To the so-called IR fan turned into ARR-fans and Deva-fans:
Pls. take a look at the following quotations which suggests who is a genius.

Genius is independent of situation
Charles Churchill

Genius is essentially creative;
it bears the stamp of the individual who possesses it.
Germaine De Stael

When a true genius appears in this world you may know him by the sign that the dunces are all in confederacy against him.
Jonathan Swift

Talent repeats, genius creates.
Talent is a cistern; genius a fountain.
Edwin Whipple

Genius does what it must, talent does what it can.
Bulwer Lytton

So, there is no dearth of knowledge for a genius and IMO as long IR is in TFM he will provide good music and always be popular as a good MD. Quality always makes it mark in people's minds and I am sure that people will someday realize that and turn back to IR. There is no doubt about it. Even if he is not there to do it, his son KR has the same spark in him and we can expect such good music from him.
From: Nammaooruvalen (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Wed Jul 23 05:35:46 EDT 1997

To: sathyakumar
Some non-relevant questions! What is the meaning of "enthu" and IMO? Which is bigger: lakhs or crore? Are you saying ARR is better paid than IR?

To: Ravi
I agree with you 100%. I have finally found a supporter!

To: cp
Don't be too quick to judge other MDs and label them as kuppai and repetitive. TMS was once reported to have said that "people who give kuppai songs such as Orampo will one day be orampoed by the Tamil audience." What happened was TMS languished in the desert whilst Ilayaraja's kaatil mazhai penjuthu.
It won't be wrong if I put forward the same quotation you have used: "When a true genius appears in this world you may know him by the sign that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." You could very well be referring to Deva and ARR!!!!
From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Wed Jul 23 12:44:29 EDT 1997

To Nammooru:
Aah! Jonathan's Swift's quotations compared to the genius of ARR and Deva?? What a joke! I now understand why the National Award was given to "Minsaara Kanavu". Because people cannot appreciate good music anymore. They accept whatever has been given to them as Music. ARR did give good songs in Roja, Gentleman & Pudhiya Mugam. But his music recently has become repetitive and stale. I heard songs in "Minsaara Kanavu" and could not understand how they have the National Award for music. The song "Vennilave Vennilave" has no suraththu. Hariharan sings in his monotonous voice. And the song reminded me of "Uyire Uyire" in Bombay. And I heard that SPB was given the Award for having sung the song "Thanga thamarai magale" in "Minsaara Kanavu". Ippadi SPB oda inimaiyana kuralai ARRal than kolai seiya mudiyum!

ARR can never be in the market for more number of years as IR did because he does not have variety. Deva will live as long as IR or ARR are in the market. Because, Deva and other MDs like Sipri, Vidyasagar make music with the dhayavu of IR and ARR's tunes. IMO, I feel it is sheer injustice to compare Deva with a great MD like IR.
From: Nammaooruvalen (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Thu Jul 24 04:41:35 EDT 1997

To: cp
I'm sorry if I have hurt your feelings! I didn't mean that Deva or ARR is comparable to IR. What I said was the quotation that you used can be used against your argument as well.
As for your arguments "Because people cannot appreciate good music anymore. They accept whatever has been given to them as Music" I am getting the deja vu feeling. Yes I have heard this before when IR was in his prime. So, you can't blame me for feeling this way.
As far as Minsara Kanavugal is concerned, please follow my thread on it. As suggested earlier in this forum, maybe we should just limit our discussions to the decline of IR only.
From: Nammaooruvalen (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Thu Jul 24 04:44:51 EDT 1997

Let me say one more thing on IR vs. ARR (last one I promise!) Looking back, which first movie has better songs: IR's Annakili or ARR's Roja? I rest my case!
P/S: A reply is not neccessary.
From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Thu Jul 24 11:21:29 EDT 1997

To Nammooru:

Sorry, I could not resist replying. I promise this is my last reply and I do not want to waste my time arguing for IR. People know that he is the greatest MD that TN has seen in recent times. Even you know that and I know that this discussion was started to just ulllupify hardcore IR fans. So, I do not want to pull the discussion unnecessarily. Annakili made waves as like Roja did. And I don't think I have to say that to an ex-IR fan.
From: Nammaooruvalen (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Fri Jul 25 05:55:37 EDT 1997

To: Kumar, Sathya Keerthi, Gopal Prasad, Anand, Chandrasekar, and cp

I have a confession to make. I am a true-blue, down to the core IR fan!!!!
I am quite new to this TTP and when I first visited this site, I was shocked to see so many IR hardcore fans. Unbelievable, especially since I come from an environment that was anti-IR. As cp correctly guessed, I just wanted to ulllupify (whatever that means) hardcore IR fans and see their responses. This has been an exciting session for me.
I suppose the majority of those posting here must be in your late 20s and 30s. Congratulations on your firm stand. Ungal pohndra rasigargal irukkum varai, Ilayarajavukku thozhviyey illei. Vaazhga valamudan Ilayaraja!
From: ravi (@ eagle.vapower.com) on: Fri Jul 25 12:37:12 EDT 1997

Enna Nammaooru sir, ippadi andhar balti aditthu vitteergal? Even if someone is an IR fan there is nothing wrong in criticising when mediocre songs are dished out (even if they are from IR). After all this is a TFM page not IR home page. I resen when IR uses singers with lesser singing talents(including himself) for great tunes. The same goes true for ARR too.I know it is not fair to expect all the songs in a movie to be great but I wish IR came up with some nice tunes frequently as he did in the eighties.

BTW, I watched Siraichalai last night for the first time, the BGM in one particular scene - Tabu looks at Mohanlal from the other side of the train window after Mohanlal gets arressted - Shenoy with some other wind instruments - is still haunting me.
From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Fri Jul 25 12:50:18 EDT 1997

To Nammooru:
Yov! Neenga sariyana pachondhi! Indha topicil IRoda HC fan endru solreenga. "MK tops" topicil ARR pattu ellam nalla irukkunnu solreenge. Engeyo udhaiykkudhe! Neengal nejamagave IR fana? Illai ella pakkamum ezhuthu ambugal vandhu thakkiyathil pura mudhugai kattiviteera? Puriyadha pudhirai irukkireere? IMO, endha IR HC fanukkum ARR songsai completeaga ethukollave mudiyathu.

Anyway, IR fan endra varthaiyai neengal sonnadhal ungalukku Three Cheers!
From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Fri Jul 25 13:04:16 EDT 1997

To Ravi:
I disagree with your opinion about IR's singing talents. IR has rendered tough songs himself and his voice is very different and undecorated.

Have you listened to the song
"Mangai nee mangani madal vidum",
"Kannamma kadhal enum kavidhai solladi" - Vinodhini and Prasanth starrer(Balumahendra movie)
where IR sings. I do not remember the movies though. These two songs have a very different tune and are tough to sing. IR's rendering of these songs are excellent.

FYKI, please see the topic "IR's voice".

Recently, IR has indeed given many songs that are good . You will find all those in the topic "IR's recent movies"
From: N.O. Valen (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Sat Jul 26 01:01:00 EDT 1997

To cp and Ravi
I am a true-blue fan of IR - don't have any doubts about that. But as Ravi has said, we cannot just accept everything offered as aha, oho. As a human being IR makes mistakes too and he has been critised before. If we praise all IR's offering as greats then we cease to be a "fan" and will become a "fanatic" There is nothing wrong or disloyal in ejoying ARR's, Deva's or any other MD's songs as long as they are good. Credit should be given where due. Thinanthohrum thaan sohru saapidurohm. Aanah nallariku sonnathunaaleh, chapathi, naan-la try pandrathilleh - athu pohlehthaan. Chapathi, naan-lah rasikirohm, rusikirohm, athodu mudinjuthu, sohrei veina-nu solla mudiyuma?
Athey samayam we have to be sensitive to ARR & deva fans. We must NEVER forget that once we were in their shoes (when everybody was condemning IR's music)
As far as IR's voice is concerned, some songs have been mediocre whilst most are unparalleled. For instance I can say with conviction that IR did better justice to Ithayam oru Koyil than SPB! Thank God he doesn't sound irritating like MSV.
From: Shashi (@ 137.197.35.41) on: Sat Jul 26 01:09:35 EDT 1997

I completely agree with IR's voice. There is a certain rustic quality that somehow pampers your heart. (the tamil word to describe the effect his voice has, is 'nenjai nerudum vagai irukirathu'.

Yes cp@ 208.206.24.27, the song "adi kannamma, kaathal enum kavithai soladi, un pillaithamizhil, kannamma... is from the movie Vanna Vanna Pookal. The picturisation for this song is simply stunning. Of course, it is none else than BaluMahendra who is the only person who can make his camera talk. Like many of his songs, the hero and heroine are just walking through picturesque surroundings and the song is in the background. Overall, the movie was also quite enjoyable without much masala.
From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.8) on: Mon Jul 28 00:39:17 EDT 1997

I agree with NOV that IR sings better than SPB, once in a blue moon. Another sons which comes into my mind is 'naanaaga naanillai thaayE'. IR romba urukkamaagap paadivittaar.

But many of the songs sung by him would have sounded better with SPB or Malasyia. This does not mean that those songs were bad. With SPB, they would have sounded better. One classic example is 'sangkaththil paadaatha kavithai' from Auto Raja. That magnificient song was sort of spoiled by IR. (There was a song 'thumbivaa' from Balu Mahendra's 'OLangkaL' which was dubbed as 'kaNNE kalaimaanE' in Tamil. In Tamil the songs goes like 'nIrvIzhchi thImUttuthE' sung by SJ. This song was also tuned on the same tune.)

But for songs like 'then paaNdich chImayilE', 'nilaa adhu vaanaththu mElE', 'aaRu athu aazham illai' etc IR thaan best.

Coming to the other topic. Being an IR fan does not stop you from appreciating good music from others. It is always good to have a healthy competition between any two people which would result in better deleverables from both. I was waiting for somebody to give good songs which will induce better songs from IR.

Entered ARR with Roja and I was sort of sure that I can expect a healthy 'pOtti' like what MSV and IR had in the late 70s. But ARR immediately dived to abyssmal standards and so did the 'rasanai' of present dat Tamil listeners. The 'pOtti' is no more there.

With IR losing enthu in scoring music for similar stuff again and again (He accepts this in aanandha vikatan), junta are left with ARR, Deva, Vidyasaagar and Sirpi to recycle tunes mutually. But MK songs did have some class. We have to be unbiased to accept that. (Hats off to NOV's chappaaththi-rice analogy!!!)
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Mon Jul 28 00:53:48 EDT 1997

IR's version of "naanaaga naanillai thaaye"
better than SPB version?
Doesn't make sense to me. IMHO, except
a very few early songs, IR keduthufied many
songs.
From: NO Valen (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Mon Jul 28 04:52:17 EDT 1997

To: Rajaraman
I agree with Aravind totally that IR's Naanager naanillei thaayey is much better than the SPB version. It is about the only version played over the radio or anywhere else. In fact I won't be wrong to say it is among the top ten of IR songs, from the point of music, lyrics and rendition!
cp: response illeiyaa?
From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Mon Jul 28 10:53:16 EDT 1997

To Nammooru:

I read your chapathi-rice comparison to ARR vs IR. But you know finally, it is chapathi chapathi thaan arisi arisi thaan. Arisi illamal uyir vazhamudiyadhu endru neengale solliviteergal.
Appuram naan enna solla venum!

P.S: palaiya chapathi kasakkum ;-)
From: ravi (@ eagle.vapower.com) on: Mon Jul 28 16:41:51 EDT 1997

There is something fundamentally wrong in the comparison;

Arisi - uncooked rice;
Chappathi - cooked wheat flour

cooked arisi is called either sadham or soru
So hardcore IR fans need not go overboard. I'm a IR fan myself but logic is first.
From: ravi (@ eagle.vapower.com) on: Mon Jul 28 16:45:51 EDT 1997

Oops,

I saw only the last posting by CP and shot my reply. But N O valen has mentioned sohru in his original posting. Peace!
From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Mon Jul 28 16:54:04 EDT 1997

Ravi,

soru endru enakku solluvadhu enu pidakkavillai. Adhanal arisi endren. En thappai maniththu arula vendum! Sari, naan solla vandadhu sadham vs chapathi. Okvaa!

Saga IR hardcore fans romba paduthal jasthi pa!
From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.8) on: Mon Jul 28 22:01:44 EDT 1997

Rajaraman - SPB's version of 'naa. naa. thaayE' is like Tendulkar scoring 40 and IR's version is like Venkatesh Prasad scoring 25. Though 40 is greater than 25 won't you say that Prasad batted better than Tendulkar, in that innings?
From: Nithin Sreedevan (@ 147.126.90.46) on: Fri Oct 3 17:26:14 EDT 1997

Is Annakkili or Roja the greatest? Was that one of the questions? Annakkilli will easily stand out one of the most amazing and unforgettable albums of all time in Indian film music. I am still humming those songs. And, Roja. These flowers wilt away so soon.

Regs Raja versus other music directors. To me, this man will always be a hero. Someone' creativity, hardwork, dedication and spontaneity that can never ever be paralleled.

Remember, he composed for nearly 100 movies in about 3 to 4 years, that means nearly 400 songs in his first 4 years. His next 100 came in only 2 years.

Rahman takes about 6 months to produce his noisy confused orchestration for 3 or say 5 songs, I am given to understand. That is about a movie or two (considering the same songs maybe played backwards or sidewards for the other movie).

Now, who is doing what and how and when on this great universe, mighty Rama?

Tamil movies are not what it used to be and for how long can someone go on producing for the same medium ceaselessly? Let us say Raja has got other work to do.
From: Kannan (@ 202.54.34.105) on: Thu Jan 15 05:39:15 EST 1998

To All,
Enna 'Kadaluku Mariyadhi' - Now Talk of the town.- What is u guys opinion?
From: Kannan (@ 202.54.34.105) on: Thu Jan 15 06:22:15 EST 1998

IRku declinena tututu..
IR fan Nammorava ne iappadi oru query start pannalama?
Kadal Alaiku ooyvu Undaa?
Isaiku Ooyvu Undaa?
Isai Intha ulagil Irrukum varai
I(sai gyani)R's Isai Irrukum...
Any Doubt about it..
There is no decline for IR & his master pieces.
'Kadalaku Mariyadhi' is a small sample.
Enna 'Kadalaku Mariyadhi', Guru - Malayalam movie,
kelungapa.
Kannan
From: JP (@ usr30-dialup41.mix2.atlanta.mci.net) on: Thu Jan 22 20:14:01 EST 1998

The one reason why IRs songs in the recent past
went unnoticed was because of the low level movies
which has some second level directors and actors.
Some songs would have become super hit had it been directed, and or acted by big stars. The situation
and the story line in the movie is a key factor in
bringing out the best songs form MD. IR had these opportunity when he had Balachandar, Barathiraja
, Maniratnam, Kamalhasan etc..in the earlier days.
Now they all left him for some reasons which we dont know. One classical example is "sriranga nathanin patham" from Mahanathi was a super hit
in the recent past. I hope IR can give the same quality songs if he works with good artists. The recent hit "kadhalakku Mariyadhai" would well
explain well what i said above
From: S.Thirupathy (@ 202.54.36.153) on: Sat Jan 31 06:54:22 EST 1998

Dear Guys!

I am Hc IR fan...

Ilayaraja didnot get good director to expalin and get good stuff from him. Fazil is always getting good numbers b'se his way of story telling and explaining the situatiion of the scene is better and that makes a man to give good number that too for a man who is in the field for more than 20 years.

In kannada there is one film director sunilkumar Desai, He is a award winning Director and praised by Maniratnam as Sunilkumar Desai as Director of Directors. His film Nammoora mandara Hoove( Enga ooru mandara poove) is SUPER HIT, alla the songs scored by IR is so fresh and sweet, and other kannada filn "BOOMI GEETHA" is excellent, for that matter actors and others are not so famous.

If you listen these two musiccassetes you won't talk about IR's decline. OK.

He is the GOD himself, He sings in NILALGAL as " pudhu ragam padaippathale nanum iraivane".

His music is gift of GOd to human beings.
see you guys !
From: S. Bhavanishankar (@ m_33_65.pppmad.vsnl.net.in) on: Wed Feb 4 02:50:13 EST 1998

Raja is certainly over the hill. I think ARR's success has done it to him. The very feeling of having lost the top spot has sapped his creativity. I think, music also has generation gaps and a new generation has born after Raja. I don't think that he will ever be able to give another earth-shaking sone.
From: S. Bhavanishankar (@ m_33_65.pppmad.vsnl.net.in) on: Wed Feb 4 02:54:48 EST 1998

I have done a lot of research on the Ragas used by Raja in his songs (and, in general, ragas used in film songs) . Any one interested .....?
From: Anand Subramanian (@ 147.78.4.225) on: Sat Feb 7 13:03:06 EST 1998

Raja will be cherished in hearts of all
music lovers for his best number

'Janani Janani...'

Nobody can match him with a song like this.

Do listen to his COMPOSITIONS (Nothing but wind, How to name it) and DEVOTIONAL music (Geetanjali) , u will feel that he is really a class apart.

He is the best re-recordist of all the MDs the
Film Industry has seen so far.
From: maha (@ 207.41.225.69) on: Mon Feb 9 02:31:44 EST 1998

enda ellraum raja,raja nu uyira uduringe. avan poota case. Oru album ketta I cannot recognise
whether it was composed by ARR or KRAJA. I think
there ends the debate. KRAJA saya that his father
is the greatest musician, but why the hell does
he sound like ARR!!! hypocrisy. Naanum parkaren
No one appreciates Rehman's TRUE GENIUS. He is the
GREATEST MUSICAL MAESTRO I have come across. Have you listened to the piece "Title Melody (sax by kadri gopalnath) " in Duet?? (Bombay theme, rakshagan theme etc etc etc)
Enna electifying Piece da athu. Raja 800 films panninalum athula pathi (sorry 3/4) KUPPAI
thaan.
From: k.r.ravi (@ 219.middletown-52.va.dial-access.att.net) on: Sun Mar 22 03:16:26 EST 1998

maha :

Aiyo paavam !! No other words to describe.
From: Nagarajan (@ freeway.proxy.lucent.com) on: Mon Mar 30 17:35:52 EST 1998

Maha

I have been surfing thro all these IR and ARR's threads and I am tired of reading all these comparisons on these two...

ARR and IR are great in their own ways. Nobody can
deny that. But I am so surprised when you said that3/4th of IR songs are kuppai. Out of his 4000+ songs, just name 50 songs that you consider as kuppai.... I BET YOU CAN'T.

I've got most of the ARR's CDs and more than 100 cassettes of IR songs (no kidding). You know what? I just couldn't listen to Rashagan, Bombay anymore. Their life is just one year or maximum two years. But I can still listen to IR's Katriniley varum geetham, Johny, Nizhalgal, Moondram Pirai, Aval Appadithan etc...

If you think these songs are kuppai... then.. I am
sorry... there is something terebly wrong with your ears...

One more think... songs are not the only job for an MD. BGM is also equally important. And there is not even one movie you can name for ARR (except minsara kanavu)

I don't mind you compare IR and ARR.. But don't say that IR's songs are kuppai. If that was true, he couldn't have scored 800+ movies.

By the way have you heard IR's latest movie Kadhalukku Mariadai?

Nagarajan
From: aruvi (@ ww-te05.proxy.aol.com) on: Mon Mar 30 22:40:42 EST 1998

Just because he is having a low profille does not mean that the man is incapable of producing good music. He has been in the industry for 20 years or so. We should respect someone as profound as he is.
From: Ganesh (@ klg-57-170.tm.net.my) on: Thu Apr 30 17:29:54 EDT 1998

Well .. well .. well .. Looks like you guys are not matured yet !! Why compare ARR & IR ... they are great in their own ways. IR is doing Melody & Harmony while ARR is doing Rythm & Beat ... that's all.

I'm a IR fan myself ... but i do listen to ARR's songs. In my opinion ARR's latest songs (Ratchakan & Jeans) are not good compared to older ones like Bombay, Duet & Uzhavan. Does that means ARR lost touch ? {pls give some thoughts}. Well, I don't think so. And the same thing goes to IR.

I was a fan of IR since 1976 (my birth year). In my opinion IR is still capable in offering the best. For example :-

1) Rythm & blues : Nil..Nil..Nil (Pattu Padava)
2) Alternatives : Suttum Sudar Vili (Sirai Salai)
3) Upbeat & Uptempo : Ennai Thaladha (Kaathalukku Mariyathai)
4) Pop Rock : Paapa Roopa (Pooncholai)
5) Home Mix (Rock) : Neengga Paartha (Kanmani Oru Kavithai)
6) Melody : Alli Sunthara Valli (Kangalin Varthaigal)
7) Jazz Rock : Yengge Yen Kaathali (Devathai)
8) Harmony : Arumbu Thalireh (Chandralekha)
9) the creativity to compose Vayasu Ponnu Manasu (Kilakkum Mearkum) for a village girls dance.
From: Ganesh (@ klj-18-180.tm.net.my) on: Fri May 1 16:56:49 EDT 1998

Music director in India can be classified into 3 catagories :
1) Deva, Vidyasagar, Sirpi & S.A. Rajkumar etc.
2) ARR, Karthik Raja & Yuvan Shankar Raja
3) Illayaraja & M.S. Visvanathan

Group no. 1 : 100 % lifts from western hits/music

Group no. 2 : 50 % lifts from western hits/music with 50 % of personal creativity ... but, has a long way to go.

Group no. 3 : Once in a while lifts from western hits/music ... creativity extends from western classics to eastern classics.

... now let's talk about IR & ARR ... ... both of them have done kuppai songs, melody & etc
Kucchi Kucchi Rakamma was ARR's Kuppai & Pudhu Ponnu Maappillai was IR's Kuppai !!!
They also did a few stale music in Ratchakan (ARR) & Kaadhal Rojave (IR) ... so does this means that both of them deserved to be kick out of the music industry ??

hah ... the fact is that ... each songs in a movie is supposed to be requested by the Producer/Director/etc., therefore both ARR & IR has to comply with these request. Hence sometimes their songs are stale !!!

Just because SONY accepted ARR's Vandhe Matram does not means he is great ... SONY is much more interested in making money through ARR's music because he is new, young & popular. But, it was different in IR's case. SONY rejected IR's symphony because he did not concentrate in his filmy music, furthermore he had some misunderstanding with Rajni (everyone knows about this) and not denying the misunderstanding with the popular movie directors. Subsequently, lost his popularity. And he had this caste problem. OK.

Now, the problem with IR fans is that they don't appriciate his latest contributions, but they'd rather prefer to stick with Annakili & 16 Vayathinile !!! If IR can adopt with the late 20th Century, why can't you guys do the same thing ?
On the other hand, ARR's fans appriciate ARR even if he does stale music !!! (they don't argue)

Note : It's really awkwards to compare ARR with Deva as some people do !!! Never do this !!!

For your information, ARR did a few mistakes :

1) didn't give good songs for MUTHU (consequence : IR is the music director for rajni's next movie)

2) mediocre performance in Ratchagan & Iruvar (consequence : both Maniratnam & KT kunjumon is not booking ARR for their next movie)

3) ROJA's 100 % lift from YANNI's musical album & the copy of OO LALALA (minsara kanavu) from a American Pop song (consequence : fans realize that ARR copies !!!)

... hhmm ... for IR's fan ... congratulations ...
IR might be releasing his Symphony No. 1 this year 'cause he is regaining his popularity and position. Maybe now SONY might be looking at $$$$$$ through his Symphony !!!
From: Ganesh (@ klj-60-83.tm.net.my) on: Sat May 2 14:22:25 EDT 1998

Some guys don't understand what the word "maestro" means. They think anyone can be a maestro !!!
The title maestro is only given to those who are capable of producing orchestra music. Someone who can produce multiple layer of music ... not a single layer & accompanied by drum beats !!! You can't address a person as maestro just because u like his beats !!! The europeans will definately kick you if you tell this fairy tale to them !!!
Only a person who understands & performs classical music (western & eastern) can be a maestro.
From: k.r.ravi (@ ww-wc05.proxy.aol.com) on: Wed May 6 19:32:45 EDT 1998

Well said ganesh.
From: R.Satish (@ 153.36.97.29) on: Mon May 25 09:37:43 EDT 1998

IR is a genius who is capable of understanding that it is better for him to phase out in a dignified mannner than to be removed by others. The variety in his music clearly phased out the melody of MSV and ARR in a short period has more repeat tunes and in a matter of months, i will not be surprised if his tunes from roja and others will do a second round. The last word in this debate is IR has given tamil music all that can be given and anyone else can either emulate him or blatantly copy.
From: Edward Prabhakar (@ pearl.ge.com) on: Wed Jun 24 15:09:47 EDT 1998

Please don't compare anyone of the MD's with
IR. IR's greatest contribution to the TFW is well
known to everybody. I am sorry it is not only TFW
it is the whole universe which has accepted him as
the Maestro,Isaignani,Ragadevan and what not.
I like IR not only for his musical contribution
but his unparalleled love for his "Mother". This
is very evident in some of his songs like
"Nananaga Nanillai Thaye", "Ammavendru azhaikatha
uyir illaye"(heard IR,Jesudoss and Rajni) wept
bitterly after this recording), "En thayennum koilla kakka marinthatta paavi adi killiye" being
sung so emotionally well by the maestro himself.
It was his devotion for his mother that has seen him thru. He has not only contributed towards
classical music but also to great extent to the
western music. His numbers in Agni Natchatiram, Anjali etc prove the same. And it was a history that he was the first asian to be called for the
philharmonic orchestrisation in UK. He himself
is an ace guitarist which fetched him a gold medal
in the trinity college, London. "Ilaya nila
pozhigirathe" was one of his best guitar compositions which I am sure cannot be even dreamt of by AR. Deva is nowhere to be compared.
IR's are no doubt the best in the industry.
Some of them being, "Enna satham intha neram,
Kathalin Deepam ondru etrinnene", "Thendral
vanthu ennai thodum", "ilamai ennum poongatru".
His songs are ever green unlike others'.
His re-recordings are the best. Some of the finest
are in "Thalpathi", "Nayagan","Siraichalai".
As per my view his priorities may be like
this
1)His "amma" (which quality of his I like the most)
2)Music and Kadavul (probably Thai Moogambigai)
3) Then comes his family and others.
He has been an uncrowned king for the last 22 years and will remain to be.

His dedication,perseverance and his hardwork
has really put him atop.

What I want to stress is that he is beyond
comparison.

I found this site to be very interesting.
I never knew there would be so many
"Ilayaraja Veriyargal" as I am.

Long live Our great Raja.

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