Topic started by RV (@ 1cust124.max18.san-francisco2.ca.ms.uu.net) on Mon Feb 16 01:59:04 EST 1998.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.
Responses:
- From: RV (@ 1cust124.max18.san-francisco2.ca.ms.uu.net)
on: Mon Feb 16 02:13:08 EST 1998
Some directors are geniuses when it comes to music. Bhim Singh, Sridhar, APN, KB, Maniratnam are some of the people who would stand at the very top of that list.
Bhim Singh, along with MSV-TKR, Kannadasan, TMS, PS, and Sivaji created immortal songs. His golden period started with Pava Mannippu in 1961 and ended with Pazhani in 1965.
I would like to discuss the different facets of this director. What made him great when it came to music ? Is it that he assembled a great team and gave them full freedom ? Did he hv a great influence in the songs ? ( like MGR ). What was his secret ?
I would also like to discuss the songs. Obviously.
Of course, I would also like people to discuss his movies but that would not really fit into TFM. ;-)
I hv appended a list of movies here.
1961:
Pava Mannippu
Palum Pazhamum
Pasa Malar
1962:
Bale Pandiya ??
Paditthal Mattum Podhuma
Padha Kanikkai ??
Partthal Pasi Theerum
1963:
Paar Magale Paar
1964:
Pacchai Vilakku
1965:
Pazhani
I am not sure about Bale Pandiya and Padha Kanikkai. Of course, I hv listed only "Pa" series movies. I dont know whether he directed any other movies other than this. I am almost sure that he directed "Padikkadha Medhai" but I dont know the year.
- From: pg (@ gate02.merck-medco.com)
on: Mon Feb 16 09:12:32 EST 1998
bharathirAjA - vai vittuteengalE !
- From: RV (@ 1cust35.max2.santa-clara.ca.ms.uu.net)
on: Mon Feb 16 14:22:15 EST 1998
pg:
You are right, BRaja also belongs to the very top. Even his stupid movies had great songs.
- From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg)
on: Mon Feb 16 21:14:02 EST 1998
RV:
I think Bale Pandiya was by B.R.Banthulu. Paadha
Kanikkai was by K.Shankar (GN Velumani produced it).
Wasn't Kalathoor Knnammaa by BhimSingh? What about
Paadhai Theriyudhu Paar and Bhaga Pirivinai?
BhimSingh directed Sila Nerangalil Sila Manidhargal.
I think the main reasons for the success of B'Singh's
movies are: powerful storyline, fantastic songs
that blended exceptionally well with movie
situations, and excellent acting by those involved.
Because of the "Paa" series of movies he used to
be called as "Baamsingh".
- From: Ramki (@ nas01ppp206.apts.wmich.edu)
on: Mon Feb 16 23:20:47 EST 1998
Bimsingh was the director for shanthi too.
krishnan panju was the director for 'KK"
- From: Kanchana (@ ww-tf06.proxy.aol.com)
on: Tue Feb 17 10:11:04 EST 1998
Agree with Keerthi's evaluation of Bhimsingh in most movies.
I don't know if pachchai viLakku and pazhani were commercial successes.
- From: Amar (@ worf.qntm.com)
on: Tue Feb 17 11:32:48 EST 1998
G's:
Isn't "BanthaPaasam"( or is it PanthaPaasam or PanthaBaasam or BanthaBaasam ) in which Sivaji, Gemini, Savithri and Devika acted( good songs!!! ) also directed by BaamSingh?
- From: Kanchana (@ ww-tf06.proxy.aol.com)
on: Tue Feb 17 11:47:57 EST 1998
Amar:
Don't know if Bheemsingh directed Pandha Paasam (if not, sorry for this digression, RV!), but I'm trying to recall the songs from that movie.
I remember kavalaigaL kidakkattum marandhu vidu by TMS/PBS, oru muthai by PBS/PS, and pandhal irundhaal kodi padarum by SJ. What are the other songs?
- From: RV (@ nat-20.avanticorp.com)
on: Tue Feb 17 15:31:40 EST 1998
Bhim Singh also directed Saadhu Mirandaal with TKR as the MD. It was a different kind of movie for him; a thriller. Didnt come out well. I dont know whether it succeeded then. Balamurali sang a song for the first time in TFM in this movie.
Kanchana:
I beleive Pacchai Vilakku was successful; Pazhani definitely wasnt. I am told that Pazhani marked the end of his golden period of hits. Since PV came before that, it strengthens my beleif.
All:
Who did Paavai Vilakku ? Very good songs in that one.
- From: Bhaskar (@ ww-td09.proxy.aol.com)
on: Tue Feb 17 19:37:29 EST 1998
RV:
Ayyo!!, oru murai Kalathoor Kannamma vin paadalgalai pattri oru paperil ezhudhivaithu irundhaen post seiyya vaendum endru, enga vittaen endru thudiyaa thudithu kondu irukkaen :-(((
Kidaithavudan post seiyyaraen.
Ramki:
KK (Kalathoor Kannamma) is by Bhim Singh. Padam recent-aa paarthaen.
- From: RV (@ nat-20.avanticorp.com)
on: Tue Feb 17 20:23:55 EST 1998
Sathiya Keerthi:
Bale Pandiya was directed by Panthulu ? I thought that Panthulu only produced movies.
Digression: Panthulu acted as the "School Master" - hero role - in a Kannada movie. Sivaji guest stars in that one. He also acted in the old AVM movie "Naam Iruvar"
I am quite ceratin that he directed Bhagap Pirivinai. I am not sure about PTPaar. MB Srinivasan did the music for that one, so maybe not.
He did KK too ? Thats news to me. Bhaskar, we will wait. ;-)
Did he also do Oru Nadigai Naadagam Paarkkiraal ?
Kanchana, Sorry Bandha Paasam patru onnume theriyaadhu.
Panama Pasama KSG endru ninaikkiren. Can someone confirm ?
As Sathiya Keerthi mentioned, he was brilliant in ensuring that the songs fit into the movies very well. "Pon Ondru Kanden Pennanagu Illai" - great song, great situation, and the song actually takes the movie forward. It was visualized very well. The lyrics, the picturization, the melodius tune, the ambience, perfect!
- From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg)
on: Tue Feb 17 20:44:44 EST 1998
RV:
Balamurali's first song in TFM: thanga radham
vandhadhu veedhiyilE (Movie: Kalaikoyil; MDs: MSV/TKR;
MSV produced it.)
- From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg)
on: Tue Feb 17 21:54:51 EST 1998
Kanchana:
Other songs from Pandha Pasam:
idhazh mottu virindhida (PBS/PS) -- I think
this is the song you meant.
niththam niththam maaRugindradheththanaiyO (SG)
eppO vachchukkalaam (ChandraBabu)
en kadhaithaan un kadhaiyum (PS, SJ)
- From: Kanchana (@ ww-tb06.proxy.aol.com)
on: Tue Feb 17 22:26:18 EST 1998
RV:
Both Bhagap Pirivinai (Keerthi) and Pandha Paasam (Amar) were directed by Bheemsingh; MDs for both the movies: MSV-TKR. Just checked in my videos.
Keerthi:
Thank you. Yes, I meant idhazh mottu virindhida. RV has named one of his Bheemsingh favorites ponnondru kaNdEn. Which is/are your favorite(s)?
- From: Kanchana (@ ww-tb06.proxy.aol.com)
on: Tue Feb 17 23:09:24 EST 1998
RV--digressions & clarifications:
pAvai viLakku, with all those beautiful songs, was directed by K. Somu. Since my video has only part of the title ccredits, don't know who the MD is.
paNamA pAsamA was directed by KSG.
Re your question on PRPandhulu as a director--along with other movies, he was the director of the eternal classic karNan, with 13 beautiful songs penned by kaNNadhAsan and set to unforgettable music by MSV-TKR.
Back to Bhimsingh....
- From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg)
on: Wed Feb 18 00:01:55 EST 1998
Kanchana:
My favourites? Too many. You know how much I love
songs of Paalum Pazhamum. It's amazing that PP,
PasaMalar and PavaMannippu were all released in
the same year: 1961.
Paavai Vilakku was by KVM, I think.
- From: BAnes (@ bones.deneb.com)
on: Wed Feb 18 07:39:13 EST 1998
The first of PA series from BAmsing is
PATHI BAKTHI.
All (or most of) the songs were written by Pattukottai.
- veedu nOkki odivandha emmaiyE
(both fast and pathos versions - I like the
fast version - "chingu chiku"nu Hawain guitAr musicil
vEgamAga nadanthu magizchiyAga oor thirumbum soldiers mood)
- kokarakoarakO (not cock-a-doodle-do) kOziyE
(nice kOzi vidu thoothu for kAthal - PatukOtaiyArin
simple varigaLil Azntha karuthukkaL - kAthal pAtilum
samuthAya karuthu sonna orE kavinjan - not even kannadasan did that)
- one chandrababu pAttu
- sinnanj siRu kaNmalar sembavaLa vAi malar
(arumaiyAna thAlAttu - padikumpOthE thookam vandhirukanumE!!)
Basically BAMSING provided the best situations to bring the best out of MDs, like:
- kOzi vidu thoothu
- annan's first night - thangai singing from the neigbouring room
- annan + thangai pAsam
(appOthaiku athu unique)
- religious harmony
+ simple varigaL with Azntha karuthukkal
+ mellisail puthumai panna oru veRi
+ pAttai thooki sApida Asaipatta nadigan
ellAm oru friendly competitionil arumaiyAna
pAdlgaL piRanthathu.
other BAMSING movies:
nadigai nAdagam pArkirAl, yArukkAga azuthAn, + one Rajini movie
RV:
School Master - original is in Tamil with same name. Prduced/directed/acted by Bandhulu.
SPB song - poongodiyE poongodiyE poovirunthAl tharuvAyO.
Ramki:
Shanthi was directed by K.Shankar
Bhaskar:
unga veetuku pakathil vaNNAn yArAvathu irunthAl thEdurathai maRanthidunga.
- From: Amar (@ worf.qntm.com)
on: Wed Feb 18 10:11:29 EST 1998
Keerthi, thanks for giving the songs from "Pandha Paasam", great songs, especially the song "Kavalaighal kidakkattum Maranthuvidhu" where Sivaji( Annaathey ) sings to Gemini( Thambudu ) for a situation so beautifully crafted by Bhimsingh( is he a Sardhar? just curious ) and with great lyrics by the one and only Kannadasan and the melody by MSV-TKR, one of my alltime favorites. Of course, "Nitham Nitham Maarunginrathettanaiyo" by Sirgazhi( which I hated at that time but love to hear now ) is a great song appropriate for the situations of the movie.
Kanchana, thanks for confirming that Bhimsingh did indeed direct this movie( I also have the original cassette but edited by VGP to a 2 hour movie where many important scenes just vanish leaving the viewers jus wonder!!! ).
Bones, thanks for reminding me the songs from "Pathibakthi". I love that song "Veedu Noakki Oaduginra Nammaiyey, Naadhi Nikkuthu Aneha Nanmaiyey, Unnmaiyey". I love the whistle interludes in that song and the music( way ahead of its time, I guess ). Also, love the song "Chinnanjiru Kannmalar, Sempavazha Vaaimalar, Sirithidum Sirippey Aaraaro" - what a song!!!
Yeimpa, pazhaiya nenaippaiyellaam konduvareenga?!?
- From: Shyam (@ 192.147.35.56)
on: Wed Feb 18 15:16:34 EST 1998
"paagapirivinai"
1.pullayaru koviluku kudiyiruka vanthirukum pullaiyaaru intha pullayaaru
2. theeroodum enka seerana mathurayilE
3. thazaiyam poomutissu thadam paathu nadai
4. thangathilae oru kuraiyunthalum
5. otrumaiyai vazvathalE undu namaiyE
5 -- paadal ramayana mahabaratha kathaiyllirunthu aarambikkum. Mr. Radha thaan ella porutkaLaiyum paagam piripaar. irandu veetukum idayE suvar ezuppappadum. kathayin mukkiyamaana paadal ithu. Ramayana mahabaratha kathaigalai etuththukaataga sollumpoothu arumayaana Oviyangalai kaatuvargal.
1. Unamuttra sivajiyai gEli saiyum paadal. ankapppa ganesha andru andu paadum variai TMS paadum poothu nandraaga irukkum
2. saatharana thiruvizaa paadal.
3. arumayana tune. manathil endum nirkum humming. arumayaga kaathalai veli pathum vitham. "Kathiku thagunthaar pool ezuthu paadal".
4. muthatal iravu paadal -- than kuraiyai patri kavalai padaathE andur sollum paadal.
- From: Sathya (@ ppp-14.ts-1.hp.idt.net)
on: Wed Feb 18 17:48:14 EST 1998
"BA"msinghin innum sila padangaL:
Senthaamarai - I think this was his first movie as a director.
Sivaji,Padmini enRu njaabagam.
MD: V.R.
Paalaadai 1966
Sivaji, Padmini, K.R.Vijaya.
MD: K.V.Mahadevan.
Pattaththu rani
Direction supervision :Bhimsingh.
Direction :Somanathan.
MD:T.K.Ramamurthy
Saathu mirandaal
T.R.Ramachandran, Nagesh,Balaiah...
MD:T.K.R.
Paathapujai 1974
Sivakumar,Jayachithra
MD:KVM
1977
Sila nerangalil sila manithargal
1978
Oru nadikai naadakam paarkkiraal.
nalla thiraikkathai amaippu avarin strength. athaRku ERRapadi, paaththirangaLukku uyir kodukka oru periya natchaththirap pattaaLamE appOthu irunthathu. kudumbaththudan paarkkak koodiya padam enRu avarukku oru mariyaathai irunthathu. mukkaiyamaaka thaaykkulaththin maththiyil. kudumba uRavukaLai suRRiyE kathaiyum, sambavangaLum. inRu appadippattathiraikkathaikku romba kashtappadukiRaargaL. Bhimsingh eppadi ivvaLavu padangaLai, iththanai natchaththirak kumbalai vaiththu samaaLiththaar!
Buddha pictures avarathu sontha thayaarippu niRuvanam. athil mellisai mannarum oru baagastharaaga irunthaar. Buddha pictures padam Paavamannippu. athuvaraiyil Jeminikku A.M.Rajaathaan pinnaNi paadi vanthaar. MSV was co producer. athanaal, Jeminikku, P.B.Srinivasai pinnaNi paada vaiththaar.
"kaalangaLil avaL vasantham" aziyaap pukaz peRRathu. athan pinbu PBS muthal varisaip paadakaraanaar.
Bhimsingin paadalkaLil ethai solvathu ethai viduvathu?
Bones sonnathu muzukka sari.
paattai thookki saappida aasaippatta nadikan:
Paavamannippu:
"kaalam pala kadanthum annai mukam kaNdEnE......
silar sirippaar silar azhuvaar .... "
Pazani
"ithayam irukkinRathE thambi ithayam irukkinRathE"
"annan ennadaa thambi ennadaa avasaramaana ulakaththilE"
Paar makaLE paar
"paar makaLE paar paar makaLE paar
nee illaatha maaLikaiyai paar makaLE paar"
Santhi
"yaar antha nilavu "
Padiththaal mattum pOthumaa?
"naan kavinjanumillai nalla rasikanum illai
kaathalenum aasaiyillaa bommaiyum illai"
inthap paadalkaLil ellaam yaaraip paRRi solla? Sivajiyaa, TMS, Kannathaasan, Mellisai mannargaL allathu ithaRkellaam oru thiraikkathaiyai amaiththu thantha Bhimsingh?
religious harmonykku nalla padam "Paava mannippu". inRu Kovaiyil kuNdu vedippukaLai kEttu, amaithiyaana nam thamizakaththilaa ippadi enRu athirchchiyaaka irukkirathu!
Bhimsinghin padaththil Kannadasan evvaLavu eLimaiyaana varikaLil solli vittup pOyirukkiRaar!
"vantha naaL muthal intha naaL varai
vaanam maaRavillai
vaan mathiyum meenum kadal kaaRRum
malarum maNnum kodiyum sOlaiyum
nathiyum maaRavillai
manithan maaRi vittaan
mathathil ERi vittaan"
another immortal song from Bhimsingh:
Paarththaal pasi theerum
"kodi asainthathum kaaRRu vanthathaa".
mikavum iyalbaaka padamaakkappatta duet.
Sarojadevi pudavai munthaanaiyai pidiththuk koNdu thuLLip pOvathum, Sivajiyin vinthi, vinthi izukkum nadaiyum, vidai kaaNa mudiyaatha paadal varikaLum, Kodaikkanalin pani moottaththil kaathalarkal maRainthu pOvathum........ innum kaNNil niRkinRana. thirumbath thirumba kEtka mattumalla, paarkkavum thooNdum paadal.
Kavinjar kELvikaLaakath thokuththu vittu badhilai nam kaRpanaikku vittu vittaar. inRu varai badhil kidaikkavillai. ungaLukku therinthaal konjam sollungaL.
"kodi asainthathum kaaRRu vanthathaa?
kaaRRu vanthathum kodi asainthathaa?
nilavu vanthathum malar malarnthathaa?
malar malarnthathaal nilavu vanthathaa?
paadal vanthathum thaaLam vanthathaa?
thaaLam vanthathum paadal vanthathaa?
baavam vanthathum raakam vanthathaa?
raakam vanthathum baavam vanthathaa?
kaN thiRanthathum kaatchi vanthathaa?
kaatchi vanthathum kaN thiRanthathaa?
paruvam vanthathum aasai vanthathaa?
aasai vanthathum paruvam vanthathaa?
vaarththai vanthathum vaay thiRanthathaa?
vaay thiRanthathum vaarththai vanthathaa?
peNmai enbathaal naaNam vanthathaa?
naaNam vanthathaal peNmai aanathaa?
oodi vanthathum thEdi vanthathum
paadi vanthathum paarkka vanthathum
kaathal enbathaa paasam enbathaa
karuNai enbathaa urimai enbathaa?"
- From: Kanchana (@ ww-ti01.proxy.aol.com)
on: Wed Feb 18 18:45:49 EST 1998
Bones & Sathya:
Bhimsingh padangaLaip patri neengaL iruvarum viLakkiyadhu arumai. Sathya, kodi asaindhadhum pAdalin iRudhiyil uLLa iru varigaLin arththam inimai.
- From: Bhaskar (@ ww-tp06.proxy.aol.com)
on: Wed Feb 18 21:54:27 EST 1998
Bones:
Naalu quarter kuduthu inga oru vaNNan kitta thuni kuduthaen, avanOda udhaviyaalar (assistant) andha paper-aa sappittuvittadhaam :-))))
Kanchana:
Naan andha kadaisi varigalukku meaning, Kaadhal enbadhu dhaan unmai; paasam, karunai, urimai ellam dubakkoor :-))))))
- From: kathri (@ bones.deneb.com)
on: Thu Feb 19 09:20:44 EST 1998
Another best thing about Beamsing is Editing.
He himself does the editing for all his movies.
in Pava mannippu song "ellOrum kondAduvOm"
When Sivaji sings - "kadavuLil pEthamillai" line,
there is a three second shot - kothamangalam subbu
who is sitting in the veetu thiNNai and reading "Gita",
padipathai vittutu thalaiya thooki oru chinna
sirippOdu appreciate paNRa mAthiri NOD paNNuvAr.
A Hindu appreciating what a Muslim sings - in a
three second shot in the appropriate place.
THAT IS EDITING WITH GREAT VISUALIZATION AND
UNDERSTANDING OF THE LYRICS AND USING THE PROPER CLIP.
(what happened to me!!! nAnum IR Fans stylelil
CAPSls ezuthurEn ??)
Similarly, in Pachai viLakku song "kELvi piRanthathu andru" song,
another 3 second shot of Nagesh (a Christian co-worker) looking at SivAji with exclamation -
can you guess the line ???
- From: raja m (@ draco.eisi.com)
on: Thu Feb 19 09:21:18 EST 1998
Sathya:
I too remember watching Paava mannippu . . The songs and lyrics were outstanding. The scene where GK Venkatesh sings nilai maarilnaal gunam maaruvaan.. was really moving. The story propesing religious tolerance is so fitting even during present day.
- From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu)
on: Thu Feb 19 10:36:56 EST 1998
kAnchanA and bhAskar,
I think
Odi vandhadhum thEdi vandhadhum
pAdi vandhadhum pArkka vandhadhum
kAdhal yenbadhA pAsam yenbadhA
karuNai yenbadhA urimai yenbadhA
is a niral niRai aNi. The meaning is
Odi vandhadhu kAdhal yenbadhA
thEdi vandhadhu pAsam yenbadhA
pAdi vandhadhu karuNai yenbadhA
pArkka vandhadhu urimai yenbadhA.
(Two famous examples of niral niRai aNi are:
(1) mAyanai mannu vadamadhurai maindhanai - fifth pAsuram in
ANdAL's thiruppAvai.
(2) anbum aRanum udhaiththAyin ilvAikkai
panbum payanum adhu.)
- From: Bhaskar (@ 205.147.245.41)
on: Thu Feb 19 13:30:11 EST 1998
aruL:
This is really great! adutha rendu NNA examples kuduthu irukeengalae adhoda final version eppadi varum ?
Will it be something like this ?
mAyanai vadamadhurai mannu maindhanai
anbum panbum aRanum payanum udhaiththAyin adhu lvAikkai
Meaning konjam sollidunga aruL.
- From: Amar (@ worf.qntm.com)
on: Thu Feb 19 14:19:30 EST 1998
Arulvadivey, Param Porulvadivey, Aanandamey, ...
appadinnu oru paattu varum, keittirukkengala, Arul. Appdaiyey "pullarikka" vaithuvitteergal. Thanks for reminding "NNA"( Bhaskar, ithukkum acronymA? Athenna DNA, NNA, appadinnu neenga engheyo poareenga? )
- From: Ramki (@ nas01ppp209.apts.wmich.edu)
on: Thu Feb 19 15:32:43 EST 1998
Bones ,Shanthi is indeed by Bimsingh.He even directed the hindi version of shanthi('gowri'
in hindi-with Nutan in VKumaris role and dharmendar in Sivajis role(i can be wrong abt Dharmendara)
- From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu)
on: Thu Feb 19 16:32:58 EST 1998
amar,
en bhAgyam.
- From: Kanchana (@ ww-ti04.proxy.aol.com)
on: Thu Feb 19 17:24:03 EST 1998
Bones:
Re your pachchai viLakku question: I think it's ANdAn adimai mElOr kIzhOr enbadhum mArAdhO. Correct? That entire song is great in terms of its idealistic optimism.
thamizhchchelvar aruLarasan:
That was terrific! Thank you for re-educating us on the aNi. (The only aNi I vaguely seem to remember is uyarvu naviRchi aNi).
Though kaNNadhAsan wrote the verse the way he did for good sol nayam (edhugai-mOnai), it might have had an even better poruL nayam if he had reshuffled the words Odi, thEdi, pAdi, pArkka?!
Bhaskar:
A perspective: pAsamum, karuNaiyum, urimaiyum uLLadangi illAdha kAdhal oru "dubakkoor" kAdhal. No response necessary. :-)
Ramki:
Shanthi was directed by Bhimsingh.
- From: NOV (@ 202.184.134.10)
on: Thu Feb 19 19:59:15 EST 1998
Bhaskar/Kanchana - Appadippatta dubakkor kaathal yentha vagai? Netchayamaaga asaivamthaan! (God forbid!)
- From: Kanchana (@ ww-ti01.proxy.aol.com)
on: Thu Feb 19 22:20:14 EST 1998
Bones:
I am wrong in my previous answer to your pachchai viLakku question--look forward to your perspective.
To topic:
The movie Shanthi has great songs like yAr andha nilavu, nenjathilE nI nEtRu vandhAi, OhOho little flower, chendUr murugan kovililE.
A favorite of mine from this movie is a song sung by a bunch of young male college students out on a picnic, soon after their graduation.
vAzhndhu pArkka vENdum
aRivil manidhanAga vENdum
vAsal thEdi ulagam unnai
vAzhththip pAda vENdum
nAdu kAkka vENdum
mudindhAl nanmai seyya vENdum
kEdu seyyum manadhaik kaNdAl
kiLLi vIsa vENdum
thamizhum vAzha vENdum
manidhan tharamum vAzha vENdum
amaidhi endRum vENdum
Asai aLavu kANa vENdum
kAtRu vIsa vENdum
peNgaL kAdhal pEsa vENdum
kAdhal pEsum peNgaL vAzhvil
kavidhaiyAga vEndum
mAnam kAkka vENdum
peNNai madhiththu vAzha vENdum
uNmai naNbar vENdum
iruvar oruvarAga vENdum
The brand of idealism in this song which is simple and practical, and envelops all aspects of day-to-day life makes it extremely appealing to me to date.
Later, some of these ideals are put to the test under Bhimsingh's effective direction.
- From: Bhaskar (@ ww-tb01.proxy.aol.com)
on: Thu Feb 19 22:26:27 EST 1998
Kanchana:
Enna sonnalum eppadiyavadhu madakkividunveengalae :-))) Ennala endha reponseum kudukka mudiyala :-))
- From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg)
on: Thu Feb 19 23:30:08 EST 1998
Kanchana:
O little flower is from Neela Vaanam.
You missed oorengum maappiLLai oorvalam
from Shanthi.
- From: RV (@ 1cust3.max18.san-francisco2.ca.ms.uu.net)
on: Fri Feb 20 02:04:42 EST 1998
Kanchana:
Aha! Vaazhndu paarkka vendum Shanthi-ila ? Idhu enna padam endru romba naalaga yositthuk kondirundhen. ;-)
Thanks!
- From: raja m (@ draco.eisi.com)
on: Fri Feb 20 09:03:30 EST 1998
Sathya:
Your mentioning Neela Vaanam reminds me of Oodum Ennangale sung by PS . Was this movie directed by KB?
- From: Kanchana (@ 152.163.204.105)
on: Fri Feb 20 10:02:30 EST 1998
Keerthi:
Thank you for the addition & deletion.
RV:
Shanthi padam start AgaradhE vAzhndhu pArkka vENdum pAttodathaan. Sivaji(TMS), SSR (PBS) & other friends, riding in a convertible and having a good time.
Raja:
Neelavanam was directed by P.Madhavan. Story & Dialog were by KB.
- From: pg (@ gate02.merck-medco.com)
on: Fri Feb 20 11:16:45 EST 1998
Is BhimSingh a real Sardar/Punjabi ? Any news of his origins/how he started directing Tamil movies ?
- From: Ramki (@ nas01ppp202.apts.wmich.edu)
on: Fri Feb 20 21:49:31 EST 1998
oru chinna doubt...
'oru nadigai naadagam parkkiral'direct seidadhu
Bimsinghjiya???I think its by 'jaikanthan'himself.
Padathirkku thanae paadalgalum ezhudhi directum seidhaar. andha padam muzhukka dining halleye eduthu mudichirindhaar:))
Bimsingh-MGR combinationil aen padam aedhum varavillai?
Sivajiyai vaithe pala padangalai eduthavar Bimsingh.Aanal sivaji aen thaan sondhamaaga
produce panna padangalukku Bimsinghai directoraaga podavillai(kungumam,pudhiya paravai etc)???
Bimsingh - KVM combinationil padam vandhirkka?
- From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg)
on: Fri Feb 20 22:16:53 EST 1998
Ramki:
BhimSingh-KVM did Paalaadai. (Mentioned above.)
- From: Beaming_songs (@ bones.deneb.com)
on: Fri Feb 20 23:18:09 EST 1998
Ramki:
Sivaji's first as producer is Rajamani (amma) pictures: PASAMALAR
Kanchana:
pachai viLakku lines:
indru evanum pEtham sonnAl 2 varudam jail undu
Nagesh oru quick Acharyap pArvai.
- From: Ramki (@ nas01ppp218.apts.wmich.edu)
on: Sat Feb 21 14:59:44 EST 1998
Keerthi thanks for the info. Paaladai padathil
popular song aedhavadhu unda??
Bones im really surprised abt 'paasamalar'.I didnt knew it was produced by Sivaji...thanks for the info
- From: RV (@ 1cust22.max2.santa-clara.ca.ms.uu.net)
on: Sun Feb 22 23:34:11 EST 1998
Driven by this thread, I rented Pacchai Vilakku and saw the movie. What follows is a digression;
Why are all the characters in Bhim Singh movies caricatures ? I hv seen a bunch of them so far - Paalum Pazhamum, Paditthal Mattum Podhuma, Bagap Pirivinai, Padikkadha Medhai, Pacchai Vilakku, Paar Magale Paar, Paarthaal Pasi Theerum and so on. The "good" characters are saints; the "bad" characters are villains - all whites and blacks and no grays. Take Pacchai Vilakku for instance; Sivaji loves his "adopted" sister and is the repository of all goodness. SV Rangarao, Rly board member, sees Sivaji, an engine driver preventing an accident and likes him so much after that he treats him like his own son. SSR is unlettered - so he is the epitome of gullibility. MR Radha is all black and hates everybody else.
Similarly in Pava Mannippu, Sivaji is again a saint; MR Radha is all black. Paalum Pazhamum is similar. Padikkadha Medhai is the same.
This is true in almost all his movies with the possible exception of PM Podhuma. There Balaji is generally a good guy and makes a mistake.
Does anyone hv a theory about this ?
The songs in Pacchai Vilakku are;
1. Kelvi Pirandhadhu Andru
2. Oli Mayamaana Edhir Kaalam - 2 versions
3. Vaaradhiruppaano Vanna Malark Kannanavan
4. Aval Mellach Chiritthaal Ondru Solla Ninaitthaal
There are two more that I dont remember.
- From: Kanchana (@ ww-tf02.proxy.aol.com)
on: Mon Feb 23 09:02:45 EST 1998
RV:
More songs from pachchai viLakkau...
5. thoodhu solla oru thOzhi illai ena thuyar koNdAyO thalaivi (PS/LRE)
6. avan mella chirithAn ondRu solla ninaiththAn (PS)
Isn't there one more PBS song?
- From: kathir_sing (@ bones.deneb.com)
on: Mon Feb 23 09:13:40 EST 1998
RV:
Not only Beamsing - almost all Tamil films (may be except few KSG movies)
the characters are either white or black. Even I used to think, why not in some movie,
the villain before raping a girl - feels bad and
let her go. (He has to start and MGR has to come)
The padaipAligaL may be thinking that Tamil makkal is not smart enough to understand the Gray area!!!
In PadithAl mattum pOthumA - Balaji character is sort of Gray.
In Paar MagaLE Paar, Sivaji is gray.
In Palum Pazamum - MRRadha is just an informar - not a villain (actually there is no villain in the movie)
PadikkAtha mEthai is NOT by Beamsing.
in KSG movies the villains are portraied with their human sides - IMO.
Have you noiced that in Beamsing movies the story goes for atleast 25 years (with kAla chakram rotating) -
the concept intorduced by Beam!!!
And also he believed the sogam can be best expressed by Music (more than dialogue) with
some supportive acting.
Also he was good at deciding camera angle and different shots (Sridhar is the best) like:
vandha nAl muthal song - sivaji riding the bicycle on the kaNmAikarai with shadow on the
water with sunsetting at the background.
malarnthum malarAtha - sivaji paduththu - avan mEl
kuzanthai viLaiyAdum - kAl pakkathula camera - projecting
the hero image.
Also he uses lots of closeup shots for the faces of
heroines to express the subtle feeling of kathal, nAnam, vetkam, payirppu (!!)
My favorite is Devika (very subtle feminine expressions) watch "pAlirukkum pazamirukkum".
Also his heroines always have simple makeup
(for heroines, kondai hairdo is NOT at all there)
- From: Kanchana (@ ww-tf02.proxy.aol.com)
on: Mon Feb 23 09:51:23 EST 1998
Oops...I repeated the "mella chiriththAL" song. Sorry!
- From: RV (@ nat-20.avanticorp.com)
on: Mon Feb 23 14:44:03 EST 1998
Kanchana:
There is a PBS/LRE song picturised on AVM Rajan and Pushpalatha in Pacchai Vilakku. Do you remember that one ?
- From: Kanchana (@ ww-tc01.proxy.aol.com)
on: Mon Feb 23 18:40:18 EST 1998
RV:
Got it! The PBS/LRE song from pachai viLakku is kanni vENdumA kavidhai vENdumA. Remember it now?
Some more additions to Bones's thoughts on your questions:
In Bhimsingh's Pandha Pasam, Sivaji's character "dumps" his girlfriend (Devika) and marries a rich girl since he needs the money desperately for family reasons. Later, he is tells her the brutal truth he does not love her, and she commits suicide. In the very end, he happily marries his girlfriend with all his problems neatly "resolved". Left me with several ????!!!! about this characterization.
While there are key notable exceptions, in general, your question seems to be a legitimate one. I've always wondered too at this black-or-white characterizations in old movies, and also at some of the movies' attempts to paint any gray which naturally wanders in to be black or white (like meenda Sorgam). Possibly, the movies are trying hard to both entertain and carry social/"moral" messages, and find it simpler to do this by portraying simple good versus evil?!
(Digression: KB seems to have made a good career exploring the gray areas in his movies?)
- From: RV (@ nat-20.avanticorp.com)
on: Mon Feb 23 18:55:44 EST 1998
Kanchana:
Thats the one! I was trying to remember that but that really proved elusive.
With the help of hindsight, some more thoughts on Pacchai Vilakku songs.
Kelvi Pirandhadhu Andru is a very nice song. But doesnt really fit into the movie situation. SSR, an unlettered villager, decides to make Vijaya Kumari, who has dropped out of MBBS, continue her course. Sivaji, whose ambition is to make Vijayakumari a doctor is thrilled. So he comes up with this semi-thatthuvap paattu. The lyrics and the tune dont reflect the joy and delight that Sivajis character must hv felt at the decision - instead it sounds like Sivaji has at last achieved peace of mind. Which could hv been true, but the character depiction has been otherwise. Makes one feel that the song was picturised/made first and then tried to fit that into the movie.
Oli Mayamaana Edhir Kaalam - 2 versions. The "happy" one is appropriate. Reflects on the optimism that Sivaji has when he decided to let VKumari join MBBS despite financial difficulties. The "sad" one is also appropriate. Nice contrast when VKumari has to drop out.
Varadhiruppaano Vanna Malark Kannanavan is a very nice and quite appropriate. Vkumari is trying to remove the "shyness" of SSR caused by the fact that his wife is more educated than him. But I felt that somebody else should hv given voice to SSR, not TMS. It slighly jars that TMS gives voice to both Sivaji and SSR.
The other three are format songs; There used to be certain standard situations in every movie and the songs are made for those situations. The love interest between the "juveniles", ( Kanni Venduma ), the picnic song ( Thoodhu Sella Oru Thozhi ) and the birthday song ( Aval Mellach Chiritthaal ).
Overall, the music is very good but may not be as good as say "Paartthal Pasi Theerum" or "Paalum Pazhamum". But still excellent effort. You can give a B+.
- From: RV (@ nat-20.avanticorp.com)
on: Mon Feb 23 19:03:02 EST 1998
Doesnt Kanni Venduma Kavidhai Venduma remind one of Annan Ennada Thambi Ennada in Pazhani ?
- From: RV (@ nat-20.avanticorp.com)
on: Wed Feb 25 15:40:48 EST 1998
Sila Nerangalil Sila Manidhargal:
One of the last movies by Bhim SIngh.
There were only two songs.
1. Kandadhai Sollugiren - Ungal
Kadhaiyai Sollugiren
MSVs voice, though unsuitable for Nagesh, suits the song and lyrics very well. At the end of the song, many papers of Nagesh get scattered in the wind. Nagesh tries hard to get them back but couldnt do it. Most of them fly away. Then there is one last piece of paper just flying away and Nagesh can catch it if he wants to. Instead he gives it a deadpan look and waves "ta-ta".
2. Veru Idam Thedip Povaalo - Indha
Vedhanaiyil Irundhu Meelvaalo
Vani Jairam, I think. The end scene after Srikkanth leaves Lakhsmi forever.
Both songs blend into the movie very well.
- From: RV (@ nat-20.avanticorp.com)
on: Wed Feb 25 15:42:55 EST 1998
In my view, Kandadhai Sollugiren is probably the best song sung by MSV. Does anyone know the lyrics ? Can you pl. post it ?
- From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg)
on: Wed Feb 25 20:27:38 EST 1998
RV:
Yes, the first line of the two songs that you
mentioned (3 postings earlier) have GREAT similarity.
- From: RV (@ nat-20.avanticorp.com)
on: Wed Feb 25 22:06:28 EST 1998
Paartthaal Pasi Theerum:
Sumaarana padam. Aanal migavum arumaiyaana paattukkal.
ALRagavan endraal ellaarukkum ninaivu varuvadhu "Kaadhal yaatthiraikku" paattutthan. Aanaal "Andru oomai pennallo" innum sirandha paattu enbadhu en karutthu. Adhuvum andha "allo" sound-ai vaitthuk kondu PS than kuralil oru thullalai uruvaakkuvaar. Aahaa! AL Ragavan kural Geminikkum nandraaga suit aagiradhu.
Kodi Asaindhahum patri yerkaneve Sathiya Keerthi solli irukkiraar. Idhu MSV-TKRai poruttha varai oru milestone endru ninaikkiren. Arularasan kurippitta madiri idhu nirai nirai ani polirukkiradhu. Enakku migavum pidittha varigal
"Paruvam Vandhadhaal Aasai Vandhadhaa
Aasai vandhadhaal Paruvam Enbadha"
Kavignarukkum idhu oru milestone paattu.
Ullam enbadhu aamai inge niraya perukku piditthirukiradhu. Ennaip poruttha varai adhu oru standard Sivaji azhugaip paattu. ;-)
Paartthal Pasi Theerum innum oru nalla paattu.
Digressing again, everybody is "white" and there are no grays in this movie.
- From: Ramki (@ nas01ppp204.apts.wmich.edu)
on: Wed Feb 25 22:17:36 EST 1998
RV indha padathil innum irandu arumaiyaana paadalgal ullana
1)andru oomai pennalo-2nd version-PS
2)Ennoda fav-'pillaikku thandhai oruvan'-TMS
RV indha padathil geminiyoda character 'grey' dhan.avarukku sivaji melaiyum savithri melaiyum sandheham varum.Infact andha sandheham dhan padathin villaine.Indha padathil kaadhil poo-Sowkar janakiyin sudden death...climaxkkaagavae kathirundha madhiri chattendru poividuvaar:))
Regarding 'sila nerangalil sila manidhargal'
jaikanthanin novelil Nagesh character irundha madhiri enakku jnabagam illai.Am i rite or wrong?
- From: shyam (@ 192.147.35.56)
on: Thu Feb 26 14:01:12 EST 1998
Ramki:
‘Sila nerangalil sila manidhargal’ – nAval ezuthuvarku mubu jeyakAnthan our siru kathai ezuthinaar – ‘agni pravEsam’. Athu thaan SNSM iku karu. AP – thaarumaaraga pEsappatta siru katahi. Piraamana peNNaana thaai appedi saivaala andru palar keetargal.
JK – veeru vithamaaga sinthanai saithu, thaayaar than "peN karpizanthai" veLiyil sonnal eppati nadakkum endru SNSM ezuthinaar. SNSM yil AP kathai varum ( kathai ezuthubavar Nagesh, Enendral avar antha sambavathai paarkiraar, he is a Librarian in the school), lakshmi padipaal. UdanE antha aasiriyaruku kaditham ezuthi keduthavan vilaasam keetpaal…..
SNSM – thavaru endru theriyaamalE siyum Srikanth. Thavaru nadanthathai veLiyil sollum amma. Thavaru seythavanudanE annyonyamaga pazakum Lakshmi.
LOVE – very neatly explained in the novel "oru natikai naadagam paarkiral".
- From: Ramki (@ cs511.cs.wmich.edu)
on: Thu Feb 26 14:41:24 EST 1998
Shyam thanks for the explanation.But i dont accept the line'thavaru endru theriyamalae seiyum Srikanth'. Avar miga nandraaga therindhae dhaan thavarai seivaar. Bust standil nirkkum lakshmi arugae carai niruthi,lakshmi thayanguvadhu therindhum angirundhu pogamaal,pinbu lakshmiyudan yaarum illadha idathirkku chendru...Though the
crime was instantaneious still its a crime.
Thavaru seidhavanudan meendum lakshmi pazhaguvadhu meendum therindhae seiyum thavarudhan. avan seidha thavarukkaga ival thandikkapadum podhu eppidi marupadiyum avan meedhu anbu selutha mudiyum. Adhuvum srikanth kadhapathiram thaan seidha thavarukku mannippe ketkaadhu. Aedho avan urimai pole...
'veru idam thedi povalo'paadalil oru line varum(lyrics jaikanthan)
siru vayadhil seidha pizhai siluvai ene summakindraal
aval seidha thavaru oru strangerin caril aeriyadhu.
Meedhi thavarellaam seivadhu srikanth. So avan seidha thavarukku ival siluvai sumakka nerumpodhu
eppidi avanidam kaadhal/paasam/anbu kolla mudiyum??
Mmmm sorry for the digression guys:))
- From: RV (@ nat-20.avanticorp.com)
on: Thu Feb 26 15:18:32 EST 1998
Continuing the digression:
Srikanth character says both in the book and the movie that he thought that Lakshmi is a willing partner in sex. Of course the question is whether Lakshmi character is a mature enough to make such a decision. And later, when Lakshmi offers to hv sex with Srikkanth, Srikkanth will refuse and walk out of her life.
So the question whether Srikkanth is guilty or not is debatable.
- From: raja m (@ draco.eisi.com)
on: Thu Feb 26 15:29:29 EST 1998
Digression..
Ramki:
SNSM , I saw it when it was released in Madras. I found the movie very good, for one, a very sensitive theme was well handled. It made much more sense than most of the commercial movies. Srikanth's character was painted grey. Lakshmi acted very well . As the movie's title suggests, due to circumstances, normal people can act in ways which are not considered `correct' according to society.
- From: Ramki (@ cs517.cs.wmich.edu)
on: Thu Feb 26 16:16:48 EST 1998
Raja i never said the film was bad(if u had understood in that way ).I too liked this film(though i was less than 10 when i saw this film which was released in Ega theatre,Madras).
The charecterisation were good but not the characters:))
RV i dont think that Lakshmi offers to have sex with Srikanth(or probably i didnt understand this part well:)).She expects him to marry her but Srikanth kudumbamae perisu endru poividuvaar.
Btw does the movie or book mentions anything abt Srikanths marital startus when he molests Lakshmi??
- From: raja m (@ draco.eisi.com)
on: Thu Feb 26 17:29:44 EST 1998
Ramki:
I knew that :)) What I wanted to mention was, the characters were more realistic, rather than the steroptype , comedian, idealistic heroes, villian , evil mother in law found in most commercial films. At the same time, this movie could not be labelled as art film.
- From: shyam (@ 192.147.35.56)
on: Thu Feb 26 18:08:01 EST 1998
I read the novel first and then saw the movie. In the movie Srikanth character is defined like, rich man and wife is not keeping happy. He says those who are willing to have sex with me are 'Accpeting my request, they are coming. He won't rape Lakshmi. Because of the age she won't fight even.
When she talk to him over phone, he first say 'I don't remember you' because he is having sex with lots of girls, who all come for his money. He thought she is also one among those. When she says 'You have ruined my life'. He really feels the mistake and try to help her out.
They talk a lot when they go for daily walk. He tells all about his life. Atlast Srikanth will agree to marry her. But her relatives request him to say no. She will become mad.
Lot of objected this. They all wanted to join with Srikanth.
So, after a long time Jayakanthan wrote another story "Ganga angE pOgiral'. But it was not so good.
I used to discuss with the same topic with my professors those days.
- From: RV (@ nat-20.avanticorp.com)
on: Thu Feb 26 18:51:00 EST 1998
Shyam;
In the book, Ganga doesnt go mad; she tends towards alcoholism. In the movie, Ganga parts from Srikkanth and thats the end.
I liked Gangai Enge Pogiral too.
- From: Ramki (@ nas01ppp191.apts.wmich.edu)
on: Thu Feb 26 19:22:40 EST 1998
Shyam i did the reverse i saw the film first and read the novel which was arnd 5 yrs back.But in my opinion the film was much better than the novel..the treatment was great. There were few scenes which was in the film and not in the novel(if i remember properly)...ammavukkum(what an wonderful performance by Sundaribhai)gangavukkum sandai varum podhu Ganga asks her amma'appa poi ivvalavu naal aaradhu but nee innum color colora pudavai kattindrikke'..the very next morning Sundari bhai will turn into a
'mottai patti'.The way Lakshmi expresses her shock,surprise,embarassment was beautifully brought out by Bimsingh.Idhellaam kadhaiyile missing.
Im not sure whether YGPs character was in the novel.Can anyone confirm this
Ravi is going to yell at us for discussing non music vishayams here:))
- From: RV (@ nat-20.avanticorp.com)
on: Thu Feb 26 21:55:21 EST 1998
YGP character was in the novel too.
- From: Shyam (@ 192.147.35.56)
on: Fri Feb 27 10:21:00 EST 1998
Ramki:
In novel feeling will be written in pages to make us to feel in depth. 'vayitrukul pattampoochi parakirathu', 'mandayil marangkothi kothuvahtu poola unarvu Erpadugirathu' 'nenjju pada padakirathu' pOndravatrai thiraipadathil theLivaaga kaata mudiyaathu.
mElum novelai padikum pOthu, naam oru vithamaga karpanai saithukondu padipOm. athE murayil unarchigalai ethi pArpOm. That won't always match.
But Lakshmi was excellent. I remember she got National award for this.
Around 10 years back, to celeberate the 50th year of Tamil cinema. Chennai TV showed lots of clipping from different award winning movies. That time they showed SNSM, the same dialogue Ramki wrote.
- From: RV (@ nat-20.avanticorp.com)
on: Wed Mar 4 10:12:28 EST 1998
One good thing about this thread is that I am seeing a lot more movies than I used to. I saw Bandha Pasam yesternight. The movie is not bad.
Amar, what I saw was a VGP cassette too and I got the feeling several scenes hv been chopped off. I had a similar feeling at Karnan which was confirmed by Kanchana. Is this a common feature of films from VGP ?
I liked "Idhazh Mottu Virindhida" very much. Many of the songs are OK. But somehow I hv the feeling none of them would hv been big hits - in the ballpark of say, "Kodi Asaindhadhum". Can someone confirm this ?
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