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IR and his domination in South

Topic started by Saravanan (@ coyote.labs.cis.pitt.edu) on Sat Feb 21 00:12:46 EST 1998.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• From: Saravanan (@ coyote.labs.cis.pitt.edu) on: Sat Feb 21 00:59:54 EST 1998
  
  As I was listening to many of IR's songs from TFM and my recent collections, I wanted to start this discussion as to how he kept the Hindi music world from influencing the Tamil and South India as a whole.
  
  I came to US when I was 17 and have been here for 10 years. Slightly, I've got out of touch with the Tamil Cine world. The last movie by IR I saw in India is "poonnagai Mannan" with which I think IR had reached pinnacle of his music career.
  
  As I am listening to his early eightees songs in my lab, I couldn't help to think but appreciate IR's influence in Tamil music that ultimately kept Hindi music out of Tamil songs up until now. With Deva and especially ARR, the authenticity IR maintained for Tamil music is tornished beyond recognization.
  I am not an expert in music, but thought some of you may have enough information to contribute to this topic.
  
  Moreover, I am not sure if this is the appropriate place to ask these questions.
  
  1. How the song is developed from lyricist writing?
  
  2. Do the song writer have to provide ragas. I mean does he have to hum it and MD decides what instrument and orchestration is appropriate?
  
  Please add any of your inputs... I am trying to get a sense of how the cine songs is being produced.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: N.GANESH (@ ece.iisc.ernet.in) on: Sat Feb 21 02:05:48 EST 1998
  
  hai saravanan
  ur topic is realee interesting.actually the lyricist used to pen the lyrics for the situation and MD sets the tune.but with IR the case is entirelee different.he writes every song in the form of notes(western style) and the lyricist sets the lyrics.as far as IR music goes he has tha innate talent to give fusion music
  
  
• From: Bhaskar (@ ww-tp01.proxy.aol.com) on: Sat Feb 21 23:31:09 EST 1998
  
  Saravanan:
  
  As you have rightly said in the end, Cine songs these days are being produced rather than being composed :-))
  
  I know for sure how Deva produces :-)))
  
  Load the song on to the computer, cut & paste the bits and pieces of the music part, remove the voice frequency from the load and hand over the tune to our lyricist to write a fresh lyric in Tamizh :-)))))
  
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.214) on: Sun Feb 22 01:08:51 EST 1998
  
  saravanan,
  i did'nt understand your second question.why should the lyricist give the raaga or hum the tune?
  
  vijay
  
  
  
• From: pg (@ client-116-136.bellatlantic.net) on: Sun Feb 22 08:04:38 EST 1998
  
  vijay :
  If you refer to bhAratiyAr songs or thyAgarAjar songs, the lyricist (!) also mentions/sings the song in a specified rAga. bhAratiyAr mentions raga/taLa/varNam/mettu for a lot of his songs. I think saravaNaN is under that impression !
  
  
• From: survur_sundaram (@ bones.deneb.com) on: Mon Feb 23 10:30:26 EST 1998
  
  Bhaskar:
  payangara moodla irukeenga. thAkunga!!
  
  Saravanan:
  
  NO the lyricist don't give any raga suggestion.
  No lyricist had the idea of how Ragas work (including Kannadasan, vaali)
  It is all with the MD.
  
  There are two types in making cine songs. Let us
  NOT go into Saivam and Asaivam - will stick to only Saivam.
  
  mettukku pAttu (M2P) first tune - the fill the words
  pAttuku mettu (P2M) words first then tune
  
  M2P is like giving IDLI which can be served best with thEnkAich chatney.
  If the words are NOT good - it is like "touching touching" Idli with melApodi (slang for Milakai podi). EthO Idli sApitta feeling irunthAlum, chatney illAma pOchEnnu irukkum.
  (IMO most of IR songs are like that - but he satisfied makkaL with "hot-n-fresh' Idlis)
  
  The other P2M is like Chatney is ready - but not sure
  what is coing to come for "touching touching".
  Most of the old kannadasan, VR/KVM songs are like this - but the MDs didn't disappoint makkaL and
  served them with "poo Pondra soft" Idlis.
  
  In this TFM-DF OTTAL (athAnga hotel) some people like ONLY
  HOT idlis and others like ONLY SOFT idlis and the
  third kind enjoys both Soft-n-hot idlis.
  (neenga entha vagai???)
  
  I hope you got the point (kooda pasikka Arambichu irukkanumE!! kanna moodi ungaLukku pidicha Idli
  patri konjam yOsichu pArunga)
  
  If not clear, I will explain later with Biriyani.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: raja m (@ draco.eisi.com) on: Mon Feb 23 10:50:19 EST 1998
  
  
  Survur:
  
  Bhayangara Pasipaa, fried idly irukka?
  
  
  
  
• From: survur_sundaram (@ bones.deneb.com) on: Tue Feb 24 10:33:28 EST 1998
  
  I forgot to mention about another two MDs Deva and ARR in my
  IDLI analogy...here it comes.
  
  Deva - The Prudent Housewife!!
  
  When the Idlis become old (after a day or two)
  the chikkana/puthisAli wife - dosn't want to waste it.
  So athai uthithu pOttu (break it), salt + konjam masalA
  sErththu, avanga stylelil - oru puthu "IDLI UPPUMA"nu
  differentA koduppAnga. That is Deva style.
  
  (I love Idli uppumA!!! and also loved what comment
  Deva made in last week's Kungumam - I didn't fall
  from the clouds as a MD. I am a husband and a
  kudumbasthan first then only a MD. What a practical
  and a true statement, when compared to somebody who says...)
  
  ARR - the SaravanA Bahavan Idli
  
  In Madras SaravanA Bahavan - they have this new
  thing called "NavaRathna Idli" - a bussiness idea.
  It comes with 9 Idlis - so small - made of one-or-two
  table spoons of mAvu and a variety of 6 diiferent
  "touching touching" items in different colors, like:
  
  ManjaL - kAra miLakAi chatney
  Pachai - kothamalli chutney
  sivappu - molakApodi
  white - thEngAi chatney
  + few more - ellAm oru table spoon.
  
  (Now I know where VM got the inspiration for the song:
  Manja coloru chingichA,
  pachai coloru chingichA,
  sivappu coloru chingichA,...)
  
  That "navarathna idli" is different, has the variety,
  has the appeal, very interesting and has "konjam konjam"
  touches of different things - and is A GREAT ADVERTISEMENT
  GIMMICK. But after eating that - sApitta fullfilment
  irukkAthu. That is ARR style.
  (also for using little dough(mAvu) he gets lots of DOUGH(paisa))
  
  
  
  Raja Mahadevan:
  Fried Idli means "sutta" Idli - need more to say whose
  style is that!!!
  
  More Idli analogy vEnumA ???
  
  
• From: raja m (@ draco.eisi.com) on: Tue Feb 24 11:35:25 EST 1998
  
  Survur:
  
  Fried idly explanation accepted. Waiting for your biriyani thesis !
  
  
  
• From: Bhaskar (@ 205.147.245.41) on: Tue Feb 24 12:44:54 EST 1998
  
  Bones:
  
  Enna ippadi kalakkureenga :-)))))) Yaen ippadi ellarukku IDLI (not alWa) kudukureenga :-))))))
  
  Unga Idli Uppuma analogy sooper! Navarathna kaettkavae vaendaam :-))))))
  
  
• From: mannAru (@ ns.arraycomm.com) on: Wed Feb 25 00:01:27 EST 1998
  
  Bones:
  
  Ungal sevai thodarattum. orE kalakkals. :)
  
  adiyEnukku oru sandhEham:
  
  indha dOsai mAvukkum, idli mAvukkum yEdhAvadhu
  vithyAsam irukkA? dOsai, idli rendum onnu thAnA?
  chutney thAn tastukku mukkiyandreenga?
  
  mannAru
  
  
• From: AtoZ_of_Idli_making (@ bones.deneb.com) on: Wed Feb 25 09:06:54 EST 1998
  
  mannAru:
  After the mavu is "POOOF"nu pongify, the next day
  - it is in an IDEAL state to make IDLI
  (so athuvum "POOOF"nu varum).
  After the fresh POOOFness is gone - it is FLAT (like
  un-corbonated Pepsi/Coke) - so it can be used to
  make FLAT DosAs.
  
  IMO: "Without chutney - eating Idli is alomost incomplete"
  
  Bhaskar:
  "kalakureenga" endru neenga sonnathum, I got the FLASH
  for the following:
  
  The main ingredients/steps which goes into making
  Songs (also Idlis) are:
  
  - involvement
  (making the mavu with "sirathiyudan" - if Mavu
  is bad, nothing can fix it)
  
  - correct proportion of melody & orchestration
  ( correctAna aLavu Rice & uLunthu - 1.45 : 1:25 ratio OR
  2:1 ratio - it varies from Mami to Mami. Next time when you
  goto a get-together, instead of sitting with Mamas and
  drinking bear, mingle with Mami's - you would notice the
  conversations like:
  "Endy Gomathy, antha Idlikku enna aLavu pOtta
  reNdraikku-ondraiyA ??"
  "enakku theriyAthu mAmi, en veetukArthAn athellAm paNNAr")
  
  - Then the MD, thinks and visualizes/submerges into
  what he has decided todo
  (this is mAvai UrapOduvathu (soaking). uLunthu romba
  nEram oorinAl "pisu-pisu"nu pOirum)
  
  - The MD then does the proper mix of sounds from instruments
  ( ithu mAvu araipathu - some may use "Ultra Grinder" others
  use the regular "mixie/blender" - is like using electronic
  Keyboard Vs Harmonium)
  
  - MD then does the communicating process to Singers & orchestrators
  (is sort of like, leave the mixed Rice + uLunthu dough todo the
  fermentation (tamil vArthai ???) - here the mAvu should be kept
  in a warm place. During winter, either leave it under fridge or
  near the oven where the pilot lamp warmth is available.)
  
  
  - Then the whole team rehersal - MD moonji magizchi-il POOOFnu irukkum
  (ungaLukkum thAn, if you see the POOOFUnu vandha mAvAip pArthAl)
  
  - Then the final step recording
  (The only thing which can spoil a good song at this stage is
  recording - similarly, if you don't pay attention to "number of
  visils" from the cooker or proper level of water to make Avi -
  your Idli will have the "BLACK-FRIED" karikippOna color.
  - It has happened only thrice for me)
  
  
  VOV! MDs & Mami's vElai evLO kastamnu ippathAn theriyuthu.
  
  With ALL this efforts, the director/producer may reject
  the song - is like "kotifying the mAvu in the sink" :((
  
  
  
  
• From: Shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Sun Dec 13 06:02:22 EST 1998
  
  Bones,
  engE pOitteenga neenga ?????
  
  
• From: JR (@ rigel-38.cableol.net) on: Sun Dec 13 11:19:54 EST 1998
  
  Bones:
  "Endy Gomathy, antha Idlikku enna aLavu pOtta
  reNdraikku-ondraiyA ??"
  "enakku theriyAthu mAmi, en veetukArthAn athellAm paNNAr"
  
  Level kamichuteenga.
  
  
• From: PS (@ horus.erlm.siemens.de) on: Sun Dec 13 23:36:38 EST 1998
  
  Bones!
  
  kalakkaax-dx!
  norukkaax-dx!
  pichchukkaax-dx!
  
  konnuteenga pOnga!
  
  
• From: vj (@ turbot.chemengr.ucsb.edu) on: Mon Dec 14 15:19:09 EST 1998
  
  i thought this thread was to discuss ilaiyaraja's
  domination in the south....
  etho pathu palakkad cooksoda veetukku vantha mari oru feeling....
  and i have started to love idlis:-)
  
  
  

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