Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

Rahman Bashers

Topic started by Arun (@ internet1.ford.com) on Wed Jun 25 12:54:08 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

---

Responses:

• From: Arun (@ internet1.ford.com) on: Wed Jun 25 12:56:19 EDT 1997
  
  I am a big fan of Ilaiyaraja and I am really getting tired of the Rahman bashing that is going on here. I think both of them are immensely talented and TFM is lucky to have them. I practically grew up listening to Ilaiyaraja and I also like Rahman these days. But it really irritates me that a few of us are bashing Rahman unfairly to praise Ilaiyaraja. Let me tell the other side of the story.
  
  Accept it or not, Rahman HAS replaced Raja. If you are comparing achievements, it is totally unfair to compare one's 25 year career with other's five. But for the last five years, Rahman has done a better job than Raja even if you take Raja's first five years (IMO, ofcourse).
  
  If Raja stopped the trend of Tamilnadu listening to Hindi songs and Tamil MDs copying from Hindi Songs (even Raja has done it a few times), Rahman has REVERSED that trend. For the argument that Rahman copies, are you sure Raja hasn't done the same? We can start a new thread on that. In my opinion, music becomes less enjoyable if you dissect it piece by piece like that. For any MD who listens to other good music it is very hard not to get influenced by that and that will show up in their work. If it is unintentional I think that is okay and definitely Rahman stays within that limit. If you can take a little beat from Micheal Jackson's Jam and turn it into a megahit like 'Mukkala' which is one of the all-India all-time chartbuster, anybody is welcome to do that and try to convince me that anybody could do that. Also it doesn't count as copying if it 'reminds' you of some other song. For a lot of such accusations, I don't see the resemblance at all.
  
  (This is getting too long, I will continue in the next response.)
  
  
• From: Arun (@ internet1.ford.com) on: Wed Jun 25 12:57:30 EDT 1997
  
  (Continued..)
  
  Some of you are saying he repeats his own music. Practically half of Raja's songs have the same tabla beat. Rahman would have been crucified if he did the same. Another thing is consistancy. Sure, Mr. Romeo wasn't Rahman's best but it is way better than Raja's worst. And being prolific: who cares if Raja can do 2693.778 movies a year and if he can just write down the music on a piece of paper etc.
  What counts is the final product. Rahman takes his time and I really wish Raja does the same instead of churning out half-baked work like he has done too many times.
  
  Lot of Ilaiyaraja's were good tunes and good ideas but were not worked on properly. Take Rakkamma song from Thalapathi. The song starts with great musical piece but latter loses its direction and repeats that irritating 'Jangu chukku' piece as if they are 'midhichufying panchamrutham' in Pazhani. Compare this to the Arabikkadaloram in Bombay. You can smell Rahman's sweat in that song (figuratively speaking). Another example is 'Chinna Raasave' in Walter Vetrivel. The song starts great and the pallavi is very catchy but interludes and charanam are horribly bad. I can list many examples like that. The orchestration in ARR's songs are much better, the changes in rhythms are seamless and he shows more creativity in selecting the singers. Janaki's voice literally turns my stomach, and I blame Raja for that.
  
  (Continues..)
  
  
• From: Arun (@ internet1.ford.com) on: Wed Jun 25 12:58:58 EDT 1997
  
  (Continued..)
  
  Somebody was asking who listens to Roja anymore. Are you kidding? I, for one, am still not tired of it. I listen to it more often than Rajakumaran and Senthamizh Paattu which were hits around the same time. Go to any music store you will find Roja and Thiruda Thiruda CDs still selling. About still wanting to listen to Priya: it is not just the good music but also the nausea, oops.. the nostalgia, it generates makes us want to listen to it more. I have the same feeling when I listen to Nanaithaale Inikkum etc. (BTW, the Darling Darling song, well.. never mind.. ;-) ) Overall, for me I have to listen to ARR a few times before it gets into me and I don't get tired of it for a longtime. Anybody listened to Naattuppura Paattu and Pooncholai lately. It came with the CDs I bought lately and they not even worth listening to once.
  
  To be fair, I think Raja's BGM is better than Rahman's to date. Rahman has improved himself a little bit in Minsara Kanavu. Also Raja understands the emotions of the character better than Rahman (e.g. Mudhal Mariyathai et al.). Again Rahman did okay in Iruvar to note.
  
  Ironically, when I was in middle school I clearly remember the same kind of comparison going on between and MSV and Raja and the oldtimers were saying Raja would never last. We all know the history now and we have to wait and see for Rahman. He already covers a few pages in the TFM history if not a separate chapter like Raja.
  
  Other than music, everybody knows about Raja's overgrown ego. (I know, I know guys.. we are talking only about music here and we are not supposed attack personally but I am trying to say that this hurts the music also.) He would not get along with anyone who is even remotely talented and has self-respect of his own. The list continues beyond Bharathiraja, Bhagyaraj, Balachandar etc. Instead he would do good music for people who fall short of licking his feet (Rajkiran, and others). I am glad that those people had a chance to show Raja that they also have an alternative.
  
  If you are selling audio cassettes and CDs you will appreciate what Rahman has done to your business. Anyway if you don't like Rahman, too bad guys... that is who you are going to listen to for the coming years and it doesn't look like Raja is coming to save you unless you want listen to his old songs and grow beard.
  
  
  
• From: Padmanabhan Ganesan (@ igw2.merck.com) on: Wed Jun 25 13:33:38 EDT 1997
  
  Rahman did not reverse the trend, Ilaiyaraja did that. Anand-Milind had been copying almost every one of their songs from Ilaiyaraja much before Rahman came into films.
  
  Listen to Rahman's best, listen to Raja's best and come with answers.
  
  Listen to Ilaiyaraja's Nothing But Wind, How To Name It ?, India 24 Hours and if ARRahman can come up with 10% of that, I will agree ARRahman is good.
  
  
• From: Rajesh (@ dragon.eng.buffalo.edu) on: Wed Jun 25 13:55:50 EDT 1997
  
  Arun: If you say that u cant listen to Poonjolai and Naattupurapattu even once then u seriously are biased. People like you are now more concerned with ignoring him. Raajavin parvaiyile and chandralekha had great songs but most of my friends listened to it with a firm impression that Ilay produces only trash songs now. They were always waiting to prove that Ilay is not great. When Rahman came everyone started praising him left, right and centre. I do accept that Rahman does produce great songs and is going to stay for many years. But I feel sad when people just conclude Ilay is no good anymore without even listening to his songs. It is only the people who lose good music. Ilayaraja still has the golden touch. As you pointed out Raja was arrogant to an extent and so many people were just waiting for an alternative. How do you say Raja does not produce good songs anymore. 3 of his Devadhai songs are superb.
  
  
• From: Padmanabhan Ganesan (@ 171-170-129.ipt.aol.com) on: Wed Jun 25 18:05:02 EDT 1997
  
  I have to thank ARRahman for one thing :
  
  After ARRahman started churning out his 'inspired' pop junk, I explored other forms of Tamil Music - folk & Carnatic.
  
  I discovered Pushpavanam & Anita Kuppuswamy, Vijayalakshmi Navaneetahkrishnan (folk), Nithyasree, Sowmya singing Kavadi Chindu and other Tamil songs.
  
  There are much better alternatives to Kuchi Kuchi and Haiya Haiya 'music'.
  
  
  
• From: gokul (@ 204.76.129.252) on: Wed Jun 25 19:34:26 EDT 1997
  
  Raja 's orchestration is unparalleled.
  I am into western music heavily. The musical
  arrangement of Raja's songs are not just jangu chakku. They are quite intelligent and flow
  with the tune. The orchestration in
  Rakkamma is awesome.
  
  I infact feel Rahman's orchestration capabilities are limited to faint loop of drums and some guitar riffs. Look at the BGM in Thiruda/Thiruda's opening scene.
  The guitar riff and roll of drums is what he thinks
  BGM is made of.
  Ofcourse his sense of rthym is great. But I know what loop he is going to play in his song in the beginning itself. Because he always repeats.
  He does have some good songs to his credit but he has not replaced Raja. The point is even after composing music for 700+movies Raja
  comes up with tunes like Oru Naal (Devadai),
  Ganakuile (Pooncholai), thendral (avadaram),
  and all songs of chiraichaalai.
  
  Rahman is good at making commercial music
  and that's it. Raja's a cut above .
  And about Raja's Ego .. he is a genius and he can scoff at mediocrity. I dont have any problems with it.
  
  Infact there are rumors that Mani is pissed off
  with ARR. So?
  
  If you consider pooncholai worthless probably
  you are not listening to raja's music but to
  your own pre-conceived form of music.
  
  I know everybody is entitled to his own.
  
  
• From: Gopal Prasad (@ host-207-53-0-110.atl.bellsouth.net) on: Wed Jun 25 23:09:43 EDT 1997
  
  I apologize for going this big!!
  
  Reply to Arun:: part I
  
  Nice to see an Ilay fan talking on behalf of ARR!!
  
  If you think taking a bit from Jam or any western stuff and redoing it to make a big hit,is welcome sign for any music for that matter, I am sorry, people dont call that creativity! I would call it an unfortunate event in the evolution of music!
  
  ARR a trend setter? This needs a bit of reply! Do you know how this "trend setter" came into being? It was because of the eccentricities, ego,etc of Ilay that contributed to some changes in the TFM world and in general the music world! There was a total anti-Ilay wave, just not in the midst of TFM prods/directors! It was a national anti-wave I would say!! And thats the best tribute to his music!! Not a single guy of repute was ready to admit the hellacious stride of Ilay, all over the country! The most furious were the Hindi music/directors/producers for their requests
  were turned down by an ebullient Ilay! The national movie pandits were watching! The commoner was watching! How could on earth a guy from nowhere be allowed to reign supreme? Somewhere he had to be stopped!! ARR enters but with style!!
  Western beats, hits, lifts help him to "catch" the attention of TFM!! The otherwise "MD next door" guy catapults to fame in no time!! Its a great thing to happen to TFM, no doubt!! We got a good music director with lots of expertise in
  the mixing/ fusion department, thanks to technology!!! And the much beaten Tamil Deis/Prods
  had found an alternative not trend-breaker!!
  Thats it! No trend nothing! The anti-Ilay wave making everything! I love Ilay and his music because, its been no easy task for him to do so many changes in a short span of time!!
  A real rags to riches stuff!! And Boy! He cant have his way!! Thats too much for the asking!!
  continues.......
  
  
• From: Gopal Prasad (@ host-207-53-0-110.atl.bellsouth.net) on: Wed Jun 25 23:13:12 EDT 1997
  
  Reply to Arun :: Part II
  
  The real trend setting stuff began during Ilay's entry when MSV had the dicta! Ilay tried new voices! Tried new orchestration, but everything was within the rule of the game !! There was Abba, BoneyM to name a few contemporary western music
  churners! My man's music didnt seem to be influenced by the west a wee bit, if I am to go with your statement of contemporary music
  influencing the head of the MDs.That was a break!
  Thenil Aadum Roja from Avar Enakkke Sondham (1976) was different! Senthoorappoove from 16 vayathinile(1977) was a breaker! Senthazhampoovil from Mullum Malarum(1978) held everyone in a sway!
  Uravuhal Thodarkadhai from Aval Appadithan(1979) is great even now! Vaa ponmayile from Poonthalir(1980)kindled out passions with its violin and flute scores!! Trend?! Here is a guy setting trend and growing in strength!! And never turned back! There werent repetitions, lifts
  and mind, it was with all the limited sound technology that was available!! Do you think ARRs tunes will stand the test of time? Already the sobriquet is huge on the wall - "Always Repeating Rahman" Man! Westernization of TFM cannot mean "Trend" setting! Set aside the lifts by him! What about the repeats? Why should there be repeats when he adopts to whimsical ways of lifts? His music revolves around a set pattern of background scores! And that is perceptible even before you get into Charanams!! Again! He is a good MD with carnatic (and western music, of course!!) music knowledge base!!There ends the topic!!
  
  On to the commercial aspect! It was Ilay who set the concept of Royalty, share in profits etc., and made cassette/music selling a real business!! Again a trendsetting!!!
  On to ego and eccentricities!! Who is without ego? You, me? When it juxtaposes with eccentricity, it plays havoc, no doubt!! But, did not people bear the eccentricities and ego of Flute Maali just to listen to the way he capriciously played a charm with his flute?? Did not the art world subtly enjoy the ego/eccentricities of Salvador Dali?? I should say, these things just add more color and vigor in the lives of a man!!
  
  Again, you arent a Demi-God to manipulate things! You cannot stay numero uno forever, for its a very lonely place!! Ilay has accepted and we all have accepted that he is no more number one in strict commercial terms! But, that does not mean that his genius is down! Is creativity a quality that rises and wanes with a man's fortunes? I dont think so! As long he is here, we are for a treat of his musical prowess!! I am happy that I am co-existing with this musical genius of our times!! God bless him!!
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: skumar (@ 148.5.30.79) on: Thu Jun 26 02:08:35 EDT 1997
  
  Though I accept ARR is a very good MD,
  he's never a match for illayaraja. This is
  not because I am biased, I have every
  ARR's album with me, he is not so repeatative
  as people say, I agree. But how many of his
  song's touched your heart, You say
  "kannnalane ..", "venninalve ..",
  "mannil vizhunda mazhai.." etc.
  It makes you humm that the max. But just take
  a "Amma endru azhaikada .." from Mannan,
  Man its Great!. Have arr made such a song
  in his career. Just hear the title BGM
  in Dalapati. How it mixes with scene
  and mood of the film.
  He puts unwanted gloss to music
  and vocals and calls it Music quality.
  
  when you hear arr's music by ears, he
  stands before your eye's saying Iam
  the MD. But raja operates behind the
  scene. It took time for people who
  hear music just by ears, to know
  how great raja is. But ARR shot in to
  limelight by just by his glossy sound,
  then by his tunes. People who listens
  music just as it comes by air, obvious
  like ARR, like my parents, who spots
  oout his music and say "Is it rahman?".
  They never before spoted a raja's music,
  nor they have appreciated a raja's song.
  Also some people who couldn't differntiate
  raja with chandrabose,bappi lahari et al.
  
  But see who likes raja?,
  some body who takes music to heart,
  not just by ears. A good music lover
  can always appriciate raja's music
  from the rest. I can only say rahman is
  better than hindi pop music, and remixers
  like Bally Saggo.
  
  PS: never mind typo etc.
  
  
• From: Gopi Santhanam (@ neesgate.neesnet.com) on: Thu Jun 26 08:11:30 EDT 1997
  
  Guys ,
  for crying out loud . Comparing Rahman and
  Mottai is so ludicrous and the drollery sadly has been started by an Ilayaraja fan .
  It is imminent that Rahman is an international Deva and thats that.
  
  ARR's BMG is better ??? .
  I cannot help but 'vettiyai vazhithukkondu sirikkals' . Pardon my expression . But i guess its apt.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Padmanabhan Ganesan (@ igw2.merck.com) on: Thu Jun 26 09:32:33 EDT 1997
  
  Just one more thing guys :
  
  I have played Nothing But Wind in college common rooms in BITS Pilani, IIM Lucknow, in friends homes (who have no knowledge on Ilaiyaraja or Tamil Film Music) and there has just been one response :
  
  Junta who had been playing carrom or TT or cooking in the kitchen have come to me and asked : 'What's this music ? I need a copy. '
  
  This has been the response wherever I had played this.
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ eagle.vapower.com) on: Thu Jun 26 16:36:03 EDT 1997
  
  I'm very new to this Discussion Forum and my initial impression was that this is an IR fan club.
  This postng may not be very concise as I am trying to express my views with regards to different opinions experssed by multiple netters on IR and ARR.
  I am a IR fan and also enjoy ARR songs. But of
  late prefer ARR songs while driving to/from work. One needs a quite surrounding to enjoy IR
  melodies but ARR songs are good to hear despite the wind/road noise(hey! I drive a Honda not a BMW) thanks to rums,synthesisers etc (copy or not).
  I have not been following TFM very closely in the last 6 or 7 years. All the new songs that I have are recommended by friends/relatives. One thing is for sure IR songs have started bordering mediocrity in the last few years (barring a few exceptions) when compared to his Nizhalgal, Johnny, Nenjatthai Killadhae songs. Don't say you can't compare 2 or 3 years of output to 20 years of output. These movies came in the same year or within a 12 month period. Or how about this(moondram pirai, Kadhal oviyum, Payanangal Mudivadhillai & Ninaivellam Nitya)? If he is serious about making a comeback he better compose songs of that calibre. What was his last good movie that ALMOST all songs were good - Agni Nakshatram - I used almost here because I don't consider Raja Rajadhi raja a good song - You guys may have diff. opinion.
  Also I feel, melody has a longer shelf life be it is from IR or ARR. Arun do you enjoy Rukkumani
  as you do for Chinna Chinna or Oru Vellai Mazhai from Roja after 5 years. That way IR has more melodies to his credit (even after pro-rating). Also why can't ARR ask his singers to pronounce the Tamil words correctly. I'm not talking about KJ here but guys like Suresh Peters etc (nangal, ungal with no-stress on L). Perhaps ARR himself pronounces like that.
  
  Thanks - Looking foward to an healthy discussion
  
  Ravi
  
  
• From: Chandrasekaran (@ proxy10.cyberway.com.sg) on: Fri Jun 27 00:16:33 EDT 1997
  
  Dear IR & ARR fans,
  
  Are we comparing the music or personalities. In my opinion, music is beyond comparison whoever has composed. Music is something that should be felt inner, and not as a consumable commodity. Likes or disklikes of music depend on one's taste and mood. And in stricter terms there is nothing called "BEST" in the world.
  
  If you still want to carry on with your comparison do the following test.
  
  Tell each one the SAME situation. Ask them to come out with the tune for the situation. Then compare.
  If you cant do that better stop this discussion.
  
  
  
• From: Gopal Prasad (@ host-207-53-3-197.atl.bellsouth.net) on: Fri Jun 27 11:01:04 EDT 1997
  
  Dear Chandrasekar
  This discussion allowed me to know what guys are thinking about Ilay, ARR and other MDs in general! Thanks to TFM page, thanks to ebullient tamil music fans on the net.
  
  I could appreciate your para one as it is a fact that music is totally inner and the taste varies from person to person!! Your last para response doesnt seem to sound pragmatic! No one can start or discuss anything if one is expected to follow your excellent "guideline to assessing MDs"
  !!! How to go about your idea? Pls tell me!!
  Till we test and compare the mighty Ilays and "state-of-the-art" ARRs its better we stop discussing and comparing!!!
  
  
• From: Chandrasekaran (@ h129.n105.ausnet.net.au) on: Mon Jun 30 02:06:54 EDT 1997
  
  Gopal,
  Thanks for your appreciation. You guys, by opening up this topic drive me crazy to come out with such excellent ideas that are difficult to execute. Take identical song situations from the released IR and ARR moivies and compare their tunes. This may probably lead to some fruitful discussion.
  
  
• From: Guru (@ proxy.unicentre.edu.au) on: Tue Jul 1 00:06:43 EDT 1997
  
  To,
  Mr.Gopal Prasad,
  
  Nambal life-um oru copy thaan. Most of what we do in life is clearly a form of imitation, assimilations and modifications of living or static examples. Simply put, it's plain copying.
  Man saw the flight of the bird and built the first aeroplane. That was the basis of creation in context to man's ability to build flying machines that basically use the principles of a bird in flight. If you scrutinize each one of man's creations, you will see that it's a part of an endless cycle of recopying, remodifying and recreating a pre-existing idea. Who is original anyway...even you are to a certain extent a copy of your father and mother...the mixing of different genes to make(or compose) one new DNA structure. At least ARR had the guts to come up to the music and transform the taste of music on the whole. Lastly, those guys who copied and entertained (or in your case fooled) the mass public are today richer by millions after all. The only thing that non-progressive Indians are good for is sitting down like a bunch of 12 year old kids, taking different sides and making senseless criticism about others' achievements while they have no idea of how hard it is for someone to come up to a certain standard of performance.
  
  
  
• From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Tue Jul 1 11:18:40 EDT 1997
  
  Dear Mr.Guru,
  I think this forum is to discuss music and also the nuances in tamil film music. I do not see anything wrong in that. I do not know why you are passing unnecessary comments like "non progressive indians and bunch of 12 year old kids" etc. I am also an observer of TFM page and I feel that it is a good discussion forum and involves a variety of topics. If people do not discuss things and criticise, the good, better and the worse cannot be known. I do not think by your accusations to any person or topic(or Indians in general) you are writing any useful information in this page. Please make your comment more lively and interesting and please let it be on TFM only.
  
  cp.
  
  
• From: Guru (@ proxy.unicentre.edu.au) on: Wed Jul 2 01:25:22 EDT 1997
  
  To cp(@208.206.24.27)
  
  There is nothing wrong in discussing the good, the better or the worse.
  A good forum is where you put the 'good, better and worst' facts on the table and develop it in such a way that you develop a conclusive and credible agreement to the discussed matter. You don't go around saying " Hey that guy did that..it was great, never heard anything like it before and he's the best...Anyone who comes after him has no place in this 'world'". Ellamum neram-mA. My idea of a forum is not comparing between two people and making judgements on who is superior and who is inferior. This is the classic case of how humanity divided people into 'camps' who until today, argue over 'thin air'.
  
  As Kannadasan said.."Antha Naal Muthal..Intha Naal Varai.
  Manithan Maravilai.." I don't recall the following lines but..
  Engengeyo yaerivittu kadasiilai cinema isaiyil yaeri vittan....
  
  No matter how much we gather knowledge, humbleness must prevail. I agree that it's healthy to argue but when someone is conclusive about his/her ideas and cannot accept variables, what good is a discussion. It will go on and on and on and... Illayaraja may have made waves for the past twenty years, as MSV did before him and the other seniors before these two came.He will still go on but producing masterpieces at a slower pace and widely spread out in frequency. He can't hope to go back to his 'thakathimi thakajunu' unison tabla and dholak beats after the transition that Tamil cinema music has gone through with the emergence of ARR? Well it will...but it's a long way ahead.. everything goes through a repititive cycle. You guyus should have realised that by now. I believe that each one of us are attached to IR's compositions in a way as we grew up listening to it just as our parents were to Thiagaraja Bhag, Visva-Ramamoorthy, Ghantasala, MSV,etc... If you see the younger generation (I mean the ones who have just reached 21 years of age and lower) they don't even want to listen to what we think is 'super'. Why? Every piece of music is an artwork by itself. You cannot judge a piece of music just because it is not hype with your concept of what music should be. So flatten out the differences and fuse together for the betterment of a intelligent discussion.
  
  
  
• From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Wed Jul 2 15:20:23 EDT 1997
  
  By the way, what do you mean by an intellligent discussion? A discussion is where people come out with facts and ideas about their own. That is what happening to TFM discussion forum.
  
  There are people who come and go. But there are few geniuses who make their mark. Talking about a music genius who lived in our era is nothing wrong. We always talk about Thomas Alva Edison and Albert Einstein because of their genius. Their genius came out because of their creativity and originality. Art in any form can be appreciated only if it is original.
  
  It is not necessary that to appreciate music you should be also be a genius and know the internals of music.
  
  I am not saying that ARR's music is not good. I have listened to his songs and have indeed liked them. But, his music is not novel or new. It is more like Western music. The way ARR mixes different tracks in his songs does not seem to be synchronized and sometimes the songs seems to be in bits and pieces. When you listen to the song "Kuluvalile muthu vandhallo " in Muthu you will understand. The song splits up into two or three songs.
  
  You all guys admit that IR is great and he is a genius. Pls. take a look at the following quotations which suggests who is a genius.
  
  Genius is essentially creative;
  it bears the stamp of the individual who possesses it.
  Germaine De Stael
  
  Originality is simply a pair of fresh eyes.
  Thomas Higginson
  
  It is the great triumph of genius to make the common appear novel.
  Goethe
  
  Genius does what it must, talent does what it can.
  Bulwer Lytton
  
  Talent repeats, genius creates.
  Talent is a cistern; genius a fountain.
  Edwin Whipple
  
  Nature is the master of talents;
  genius is the master of nature.
  Josiah Holland
  
  Genius makes its observations in shorthand;
  talent writes them out at length.
  Bovee
  
  Genius is independent of situation
  Charles Churchill
  
  When a true genius appears in this world you may know him by the sign that the dunces are all in confederacy against him.
  Jonathan Swift
  
  
  I do not know why people hate to accept that Ilayaraaja is a Genius. He has given the fame to TN by becoming the first person from India to compose a symphony for Royal PhilHarmonic in London. And by the number of awards (National) in a time frame the knowledge of a person does not increase or decrease. IR's first song is as good as his recently composed song. Please read the last quote by Jonathan Swift once again. It holds good for a lot of people.
  
  Bi
  "Intelligent" People
  
  
• From: Guru (@ proxy.unicentre.edu.au) on: Wed Jul 2 23:02:05 EDT 1997
  
  To "Intelligent People"
  If I were to relate to Jonathan Swift's quote, this is what happened to ARR after Roja and is still happening to him today and in this forum.
  Symphony..but where is the recording. Is it all just a 'blown out of proportion' affair? The last time I heard, Raja did not like what he had recorded and wanted to do it all over again. Come on guys..this is the London Philharmonic you're talking about...not the Madras Chamber Orchestra..what could have gone wrong?
  
  To cp,
  
  A genius is only as good as how well the public accepts him/ her and their philosphy. It's the realisation that you're are different from other beings that you are segregatted and labelled a genius.
  If the public cannot accept your philosophy, you become known as 'madman' or as having lost your marbles.
  However, taking a genius as you claim, putting him on a pedestal and practically worshiping him is not what I would term as being a person who think rationally. In fact, I do not think that any of the true geniuses would want themselves to be
  put in such positions. They are merely born to do what they are destined to do.
  You can thank them for what they have given you and develop their ideas further.
  This is what Einstein gave to science.
  Can you relate my example above to any other instances in your life ?
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Thu Jul 3 12:07:11 EDT 1997
  
  What do you mean to say by "your life"? If I had been a genius, I wouldn't be discussing here. Pls. No personal attacks. This is a discussion forum and I have given my opinion of what a genius is.
  
  Did you not read the following quotation:
  Talent repeats, genius creates.
  Talent is a cistern; genius a fountain.
  Edwin Whipple
  
  And still you compare ARR with IR?
  
  Why should I keep IR in a pedestal when he is already sitting on a skyscraper?
  
  I dislike hero-worship and I am not doing that. I simply feel that the quality of music given by IR is good compared to ARR's. And why is there no comments about ARR's synchronization of music in his compositions?
  
  
• From: Guru (@ proxy.unicentre.edu.au) on: Sat Jul 5 01:12:06 EDT 1997
  
  To cp (@208.206.24.27)
  
  What I meant when I said 'your life' is, can you relate this concept to how you operate as an entity when you are doing things in life..nothing more.. nothing personal.
  I personally feel that ARR is no more than a passing cloud. Just let him do what he does best until he burns out. He's supplying the market's needs. That's all. He cannot go further than this because he is not a good conceptualizer like IR. Who could blame him...vayasum anubhavum illamal..who can. ARR is the hero of the masses. IR is the hero within the faculty of Tamil film music appreciators. It's his gift that makes him different from the rest...don't term it as being genius...he's just good at what he does and can do it many different ways. Read my entry in 'ARR Tunes' on 5th of July, 1997 and give me some feedback on this matter.
  
  Illayaraja said during a stage show " My work can be likened to a magician fooling the masses with the myriad of tricks up his sleeve. Today, the one who fools the masses the most with mind-boggling tricks is termed as being a great music director". Well with these words coming out directly from the horse's mouth, what do you say!.
  The skycraper that you mentioned is nothing more than you, me and thousands of other music appreciators. As long we, the masses hold up our hands to support him, and the work he does, he's safe up there. No worries!
  
  To your question on synchronization, these are my opinions
  
  1. Cinema music is basically commercial music. Today's masses want to sing along..not sit down and marvel at these songs. Hence you can see the entrance of 'non-standard' voice qualities and singing techniques that can be easily emulated by most people out there. That's the market.
  Compare it to when SPB,KJ and other classic vocalist were reigning. People just sat down and said "Oh! Look at that voice..I wish I could sing like him". Well now they can. With the influx of 'thagara dappa' voice quality singers who have emerged with ARR reigning, an average person with such general quality voices (like most of us) can emulate these songs. It's more psychological I think. Interaction rather than reaction. Do you think so?
  
  2. IR's music is so synchronized that sometimes it sounds too mechanical. He is too much of a perfectionist. Everything is so spick-and span, from the tabla dholak playing technique to his string arrangements.. everything in unison, all in time with the melody. If you were to see the older songs (40's to 60's) you can see that timing also offsets once in a while. It gaves a kind of naturalness to the recording and performance. Well, ARR is doing the same by giving his music a bit of intentional timing offsets to veer away from the 'mechanical' quality of the modern Tamil cinema songs which came before his emergence. That gives a new feel to his compositions(and seems fresh to listeners). This too is a psychological aspect of music and listening. With the advent of computer technology in music, musical arrangements lost the slight timing inconsistency that comes with recording 'live' performers. If you see the American pop songs from the 80's,and now with techno (Oh Gosh! I can never ever listen to these), you will notice this 'phenomenon'. In order to overcome this, they 'humanize' the computerized performances with slight 'calculated' timing offsets to give the rhythm a nice grooovvvy touch. Sometimes, if you're not good at it...Voila! you get ARR's type of music. It's also a habitual characteristic of the hearing mechanism. After hearing everything in time for so long, it suddenly rejects incongruence that occurs in the instrumentation timing of a song.(eg. IR -vs- ARR)
  
  Do you want to know more about this?
  
  
• From: cp (@ host-207-53-2-222.atl.bellsouth.net) on: Sat Jul 5 16:18:13 EDT 1997
  
  To Guru:
  That was a good explanation on music. I agree that ARR's has introduced a new kind of music to TFM. But you know after hearing so very perfect songs, it becomes very difficult to hear a totally different kind of unsychronized music. I think that synchronized music is nothing but melody. I can find good rhythm in ARR's music, but I liked KarthikRaja's music more than ARR because it had the freshness of ARR's music as well as melody(I mean the sync..):-)
  What do you feel about KR's music? I heard his two albums(Manickam,Ullasam). I almost liked all the songs in both albums.
  
  
  
• From: cp (@ host-207-53-2-222.atl.bellsouth.net) on: Sat Jul 5 16:31:13 EDT 1997
  
  To Guru:
  IR is a perfectionist. He has the film industry for 20 years. He has composed music for more than 700 films. And I heard he has composed new ragas(I can remember Panchamukhi..). And finally he is gifted and that is the reason why he is able to provide so many good songs which have made the people long for his music.
  Why was Salvador Dali considered a genius? All his paintings were not recognized when he lived because it was surrealistic. Galileo was beheaded because he invented the telescope.. All the men who were great are not recognized when they live. Only after they die people sing praises of them.
  I am sure that people will certainly realize that IR was a genius in future. Because, the great composers like Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Vivaldi are not forgotten and they are still immortal because of their greatness. So, I feel that IR will also have a everlasting name in Tamil music's history. God Bless him!!
  
  
  
• From: Guru (@ proxy.unicentre.edu.au) on: Mon Jul 7 03:11:13 EDT 1997
  
  To cp,
  
  Bach, Beethoven, Mozart or Vivaldi were not recognised as geniuses when they lived. Today, they are hailed as being just that. That is the same thing which you are experiencing now when you listen to IR and ARR -- rejection to matters which are against your norms or beyond your understanding. Even an individual's music preference is like that. After all, we are just humans. The psychological aspect of music preference is a vast topic. If you would like to discusss this matter further, you can do so by e-mailing me at the address above.
  IR is lucky in the sense that he is being honoured with such recognition while he's still alive.
  KR is an extension of IR. IR cannot submit to composing ARR's genre of music because then, we as his 'thondargal' would say that the battle has been lost...IR has bowed down to a standard set by someone else. He has already established his music and himself for the past 20 years. It's just that, the market is wider now because you have the masses multi-faceted preferences and MD's who give a variety of genres. People like Deva and others can follow ARR's suit because they are just coming up to the markets need. As long as they can emulate what the market trend is well and get the money, thy're happy. I have listened to 'Manickam' songs on the radio but have yet to listen to 'Ullasam'. Although I see a big chunk of IR's influence in KR, I understand that this is normal because KR had been composing behind the scenes for his father long before he was put in the front as a new MD. Unfortunately for KR, ARR has already set the new standards (I don't know how long it will last before someone else changes it). So, KR has to follow suit because this is the current market. Firstly, this is a commercial market and there are millions of dollars at stake. Unless you know surely that a 'new wave' song will hit gold, you do what the producer's say they want. They are the one's investing in an MD's credibility for giving marketable songs. There's always a glass ceiling to what extent an MD can experiment with someone else's money at stake.
  That's why when I heard that a few of his songs in 'Ullasam' were ARRish, I was not surprised.
  
  
  
  
• From: MSK (@ dhcp-868664293.qualcomm.com) on: Mon Jul 21 22:09:51 EDT 1997
  
  ARR's biggest acheivement is that he has been compared with the greatest musician of our times.
  --that will stand to be his only acheivement.
  it sounds soooooo silly to compare arr with IR .
  
  BTW, i like this discussion very much. keep up guys.
  
  
• From: Neekesh (@ 206.29.238.253) on: Wed Jul 23 15:00:31 EDT 1997
  
  Dear Everybody on this Page,
  I would like you to know that I am a Gujarati and had never thought anything of Tamil before ARR. Because of his music I have become interested in Tamil Films and learning Tamil. In my case, ARR has opened up a new Tamil world to me. I am so crazy about his Tamil work even though I do not understand anything yet. My brother also likes listening to Tamil music now.
  ARR has pushed me to listen to Tamil music and attempt to understand it.
  I now am a follower of ARR and in most of your opinions that must make me stupid. I live in America and I notice that his tunes sound westernized, but that is why I love them and why I really want to learn Tamil. If his music has done nothing, it has interested at least one more person in the culture of you home state, Tamil Nadu.
  
  
• From: Vadi Velu (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Wed Jul 23 21:33:06 EDT 1997
  
  Vaazhga Thamizh!
  
  
• From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.8) on: Thu Jul 24 01:59:59 EDT 1997
  
  ARR and 'Tamil' songs. Examples
  
  1) Come on Come on Oh Kaamaatchi
  2) Hello Doctor heartukku torture
  3) Mustafa Mustafa don't worry Mustafa
  4) Samba samba Oh Samba Oh Rey
  5) Oorvasi Oorvasi take it easy Oorvasi
  6) Mukkaalaa Mukkaabala Lailaa
  
  Sorry, Neekesh. If you want to learn Tamil and appreciate it, don't liten to ARR and even IR. Go to MSV's times. Tamil was in it's full glory at that time.
  
  
• From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ liberty.nus.edu.sg) on: Thu Jul 24 03:08:40 EDT 1997
  
  Arvind:
  
  Indha English-Thamizh paadalgalukku neengal ARR-ai
  pOi kurai sollalaamO? Start bashing Vairamuththu!
  To get you started,
  idho Vairamuththu-basher oruvar recent-aaga
  Dhinamani Kathir-il ezhuthiya kaditham:
  
  http://drona.csa.iisc.ernet.in/~ssk/vaira.html
  
  (you need Murasu Anjal to view it.)
  
  
• From: Nammaooruvalen (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Thu Jul 24 06:15:21 EDT 1997
  
  This is unfairness to the extreme. Why blame the music composer for the fault of the lyric-writer? Even during MSV days and before that, there has been a lot of English aagikiyam in Tamil songs. Do you remember the following silly songs:
  Aney haattu sameru morrning (On a hot summer morning!) by SPB
  O little flower, see your lover by TMS
  A lady's voice better choice! (Nan oru Medei Padagan - TMS/SPB)
  Hello Miss - TMS
  Hello my dear wrong number? - LRE
  Love is fine darling, when you're mine (TMS & ??)
  Yet another in Pattikada Pattanama (words fail me!)
  Don't you know the easiest way to learn a language is through its common use and not through Sanga Thamizh? If ARR's music helps one to learn Tamil, you should be encouraging it....
  
  
• From: PG (@ igw2.merck.com) on: Thu Jul 24 09:24:24 EDT 1997
  
  It is true that the MD cannot be blamed for writing Thaminglish songs. It is not even fair to blame the lyricist. The sole blame should go to the director of the film.
  
  But is is also true that the percentage of Thaminglish songs is the highest in ARR's music. The style of his music plus the type of movies he scores music contribute to this.
  
  
• From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Thu Jul 24 12:40:01 EDT 1997
  
  Vairamuthu did give some very good songs on his advent into TFM:
  Like
  "idhu oru pon malai pozhudhu" - Nizhalgal
  "ilaiya nila pozhigiradhu" - Payanangal Mudivadhillai
  and so many others.
  
  His lyrics touched the low only after he composed songs for ARR . I agree with PG that in ARR's music only had a lot of English words used for uvamai unlike old songs where english words where used as spoken words.
  
  In the film Kaadhalan why is that song "ennavale ennavale" with an excellent music has lyrics like "Kokilame oral kural koduthal unnai kumbittu kannadipen"?
  
  "Kuchhi Kucchi Rakkama ponnu venum, Koodasali Rakkama Ponnu venum"?
  in Bombay - What is Koodasali by the way?
  
  I can also recollect some IR's songs which have some words without meaning:
  
  Like
  "pandiyan rajiyathil uyyalala" - pandian
  "inji iduppazhalaga" - I still wonder Why inji was compared with a hero? - Devar Magan
  "ada jimpa jayapadithindha pandiane"- pandian
  
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ eagle.vapower.com) on: Thu Jul 24 12:51:10 EDT 1997
  
  I read an explanation(justification) about the Inji comparison in a magazine. It seems that if you consume Inji everyday it reduces the fat in your body. In this case Kamal's waist is without any fat on it. (A clear case of exaggeration)
  
  
• From: Visiri (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Thu Jul 24 21:03:14 EDT 1997
  
  Or was "inji" a mispronunciation of the English word "inch", which would also mean a slim tummy!
  
  
• From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.8) on: Thu Jul 24 23:37:12 EDT 1997
  
  To Sathyakeerthi:
  
  naan ARRaik kuRai kURavillaiyE!! Did I mention anything bad about ARR in that reply?? I just wanted to say that there isn't anything great in his music, as far as Tamil is concerned. avvaLavuthaan. In fact, I like songs like 'Urvasi' , 'mukkaabala' and 'mustafa' for their music.
  
  To Nammaoorvalen:
  
  Boss, please see the above lines. I DID NOT BLAME ARR. But one thing. True that even oldies had some English words in them. But the percentage of those would be less than 5. The remaining 95 were like ' nadhiyil viLaiyaadi kodiyil thalaiseevi', 'vandhavar ellaam thangkivittaal intha maNNil namakkE idam Edhu' etc. What is the percentage now?
  
  I am not blaming ARR or Vairamuthu for that. idhu kaalaththin kattaayam. All I wanted to say was, "ONE CANNOT APPRECIATE TAMIL FROM TODAY's SONGS. GO TO MSV's PERIOD OR BEFORE".
  
  Again, Neekesh never said that he is trying to appreciate the Tamil IN ARR's songs. He is doing it BECAUSE of ARR's songs. It is perferctly acceptable and I defenitely encourage Neekesh. I just pointed out the irony.
  
  
• From: Himanshu (@ 206.217.81.242) on: Mon Aug 4 18:14:02 EDT 1997
  
  Although I have listened to a lot of IR and liked it very much, I think when it comes to versatility, ARR reigns supreme. ARR has incorporated so many different kinds of music from different cultures, that it is almost amazing. Good examples would be songs from Pudhiya Mugam and Iruvar.
  
  I think ARR deserves a lot of credit atleast for his outstanding versatality.
  
  
• From: Gopal (@ host-207-53-2-89.atl.bellsouth.net) on: Tue Aug 5 10:06:18 EDT 1997
  
  ARR?? Versatality???Something is wrong somewhere!!!
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ ww-tj42.proxy.aol.com) on: Tue Aug 5 12:12:57 EDT 1997
  
  I posted a response re ARR under ARR's tunes, but I'll repeat it here:
  
  Is ARR completely original? Not!! But he's able to blend carnatic,Indian folk, western classical, western pop and world music, use multi-track digital recordings, and is able to come up with something new! Are all his pieces good? Not, again!! He is not a composer in the true sense of the term like a Thiagaraja or Mozart but is one of the guys who gives impactful music sometimes. His longevity in the industry will be naturally determined by his knowledge and industry politics.
  Even though I am a fan of the songs under the monopolistic reign of Viawanathan-Ramamurthy and then MSV (thanks to my parents), I was glad when that monopoly was broken by Ilayaraja. Now again, I'm glad that that Ilayaraja does not have a monopoly, in the same spirit!!
  
  
• From: R.balaji (@ 129.130.140.54) on: Wed Oct 22 21:44:33 EDT 1997
  
  To Kanchana,
  I would rather prefer to consider ARR as a Quack
  in tamil film industry.He is just taking bits from
  all the western cassettes he can grab upon and blending
  into a another tasty SAMBHAR.He can never create a music of his own
  I don't hear much of these stuffs like Bad,Jam,Deep forest etc
  after hearing that too after coming to US I felt very sad about
  our ignorance of tamilians.Nobody can ever match Ilayaraja's talent.
  hear to his Symphony which was released 3rd week of oct97 and tell me.
  
  
  
• From: shankarr@bigfoot.com (@ webgate4.mot.com) on: Thu Oct 23 07:34:56 EDT 1997
  
  To Mr.balaji,
  Please tell me,has the symphony been released in india?If u have listened to it please pass on the comments on it to
  shankarr@bifoot.com
  
  
• From: MPR (@ dyn07.iacc-t23.ndsu.nodak.edu) on: Thu Oct 23 19:02:51 EDT 1997
  
  To Balaji:
  
  If you have any comments about Raaja's
  Symphony , please share them here with us.
  
  
  Thanks
  
  
• From: sathya (@ client-151-200-127-209.bellatlantic.net) on: Thu Jan 1 22:14:04 EST 1998
  
  To all,
  
  Whether you are a Ilayaraja fan or ARR fan or MSV fan or whoever it is, if you want to argue that your favourite music director is better than the others give hardcore evidence to support your arguement. Do not just like that say that ARR has set the Trend, So he is better Or Ilayaraja has composed this song and he is better. You may like your favourite. It does not mean that your favourite music director is better than others. Your wishes are different from the facts. To be an active participator and to participate in a healthy discussion always support your arguments with solid evidence.
  
  I will start with my arguments that Ilayaraja is the alltime best for music of any kind.
  
  First I will answer to the following words by Mr ARUN who started the discussion.
  
  "Accept it or not, Rahman HAS replaced Raja. If you are comparing achievements, it is totally unfair to compare one's 25 year career with other's five. But for the last five years, Rahman has done a better job than Raja even if you take Raja's first five years (IMO, ofcourse)"
  
  Rahman has replaced Raja. In what sense Rahman replaced Raja? Being the No 1 music director in Tamilnadu?
  
  Vivian Richrds and Clive Lloyd were the captains of West Indies Cricket Team. Now Courtney Walsh is the captain. Since being the captain of west indies team. do you put him on par with Richards or Lloyd? Mahatma Gandhi was the leader of Congress 50 years back. Now Seetharam Kesari!!
  Can Kesari claim that he is as good a leader as Gandhi only because he is the leader of congress?
  The reason for Ilayaraja's decline in the field has been discussed by me in the following link and the it itself is a big topic to debate with.
  
  http://www-anw.cs.umass.edu/~ravi/tfm/test/24703.15:38:06.html
  
  Anybody can become No. 1 some time or other. Being the no. 1 what are your achievements and what is your contribution? Ilayaraja has nothing to achieve anymore. Can any one of you give me a department in Music where any music director has achieved something better than Ilayaraja? I will discuss in detail his achievement in all departments of music to my knowledge. If I am wrong or If you know something I missed I welcome a healthy argument supoported by solid arguments.
  
  In the statement I quoted, he has said ARR has done a better job in his first five years. In his First 5 years Raja has done more than 200 films and more than 1000 mega hit songs. He was not promoted by any producer or Director or Press or satellite TVs. How do you put these 200 films and 1000 songs against 25 films and 30 songs? Are you crazy?
  
  You yourself had said that Raja has 20 years exp. while ARR has 5 years exp. In 20 years Raja has scored more than 800 films and 4000 songs. He has atleast 150 films where all the songs in the film were super hits. He has more than 2000 hit songs and his average films per year is 40. If you project ARR's career, he has done only 30 films so far and around 15 hit movies and 50 hit songs. Assuming consistency he can atmost do 125 films and around 200 hit songs. Has he ever done music for a low budget film or a new director or an actor like Ramarajan, Rajkiran, Murali etc? In what sense you claim that he has done a better job? In the amt he is paid? I will give you an information. Ilayaraja was paid Rs.40 lacks for Thalabathi in 1991, which was the best ever salary in India till that time. He has earned more than 300 crores in 20 years.
  
  In another place he mentioned that Ilayaraja has copied Hindi and western? Do you have evidence? I have evidence for Rahman's copying. The flute music that starts "Ennavale" in Kadalan was taken from a famous western composer who generously declared that anybody can use his composings as a library. Rahman has agreed this in an interview with Anantha Vigatan.
  
  Now I will start with How Ilayaraja is uncomparable.
  
  I claim Ilayaraja to be uncomparable in the following concerns.
  
  1. Songs
  2. Background Music
  3. Trend Setter
  4. Consistency
  5. Carnatic Music
  6. Albums
  7. Multi Lingual Perfomance
  8. Customizing Songs for directors/actors
  9. Technology in music
  10. His magnanimity
  11. His responsibity in making the film A super hit
  12. His Productivity - Quickness & Excellence
  13. His professional Composing style
  14. Promoting the cine industry / consumer electronics
  
  I will discuss the above topics one by one.
  ---------------------------------------------------------
  
  
  1. Songs
  ---------
  
  I like to classify songs as follows. ( I will give an example in the brackets - even though obvious - The songs may not be the best of that kind )
  
  1. Duets ( Kanmaniye Kaadhal Enbathu)
  2. Solo songs ( male - Senthaazhm Poovil, female - Maaliyil Yaaro (sathrian) )
  3. Sensational songs Duo - Not duets ( Aayiram malargale malarungal)
  4. Sensational songs solo - ( Male - Kanavu Kanum Vazhkkai, Female - Raasave Unnai Nan - Thanikkatu Raja)
  5. Songs sung in happy mood - converted to pathos later - (Povomaa Oorgolam)
  6. Pure pathos in nature ( Female - Sonthamillai Banthamillai - Annakili, Male Unna ninaicen - Aboorva sagothargal, Duo - Kudagumalai - Karagaattakkaaran)
  7. Songs designed exclusively for Background music ( Then pandi seemaiyile - Nayagan)
  8. Songs designed for sensation later used for Background Music ( Poongatru - Mudal Mariathai)
  9. Songs designed for duets later used for background music ( Thalaatuthe vaanam - kadal meengal)
  10. Bit songs - (Ae Kuruvi - mudhal mariathai , Sollaal aditha - sinna goundar)
  12. Romantic songs - ( Duo - Nila Kaayudhu, Female- Sivarathiri - Michael Madana..)
  13. Sexual grievance - Azhagu malar aada - Vaideki Kaththirunthaal
  14. Dispute in Marriage - Mandram Vantha Thndralukku - Mounaragam
  15. Songs for ceromonies - occations
  New year - Sagalakalavallavan - tiil the best and immortal
  Puberty - Araicha Sandhanam - Sinna thambi
  Kalyanam - oru nalum unai - ejaman
  First night - Thalaiyai Kuniyum Thamarai - Or odai nathiyagirathu - sridhar
  Birthday - Thenmadhurai - Dharmathin Thalaivan
  Thaalattu - Thooliyile , tene thenpaandi meene, mannava mannava - Walter
  Blessing - Nooru varusham, Adi kaana karunguyile - poonthota kavalkaran
  Appreciation - Potri Paadadi ponne, Kannu pada poguthu
  Engagement - Vanthathe Kungumam - Kilakku Vaasal
  Thoonga Vaikkum Paattu - Pachchai malai thenu - kilakku vaasal
  Happiness for getting things done - Madai thirandhu -nizhzlgal
  Pregnancy - Sindhiya venmani - Poonthotta kavallkaran
  vazhai kappu - rakku muthu rakku -ejaman
  Pongal- Thai pongalu vanthathu - mahanathi
  Dheepavali - Pattasu suthi suthi - Poove poochoodava
  Bogi - kattukuyilu, margalithan - Thalabathi
  Mother's death - En thayenum koyilai - Aranmanai kili
  Athletic environment - Sickendra aadaiyil - iniya uravu pooththathu, Paruvame Pudhiya paadal - nenjaththai killathe)
  Wive's Loss - Sola Pasungiliye - En rasavin Manasula
  16. Brother -sister Relation - Oru thanga Radhaththil - Dharma Uththam
  17. Amma Songs - Amma endralaikkatha
  18. Hamming Oriented songs - Poonthalirada - Panner Pushbangal
  19. Dappanguthu songs ( Vadi en kappa kilangu, Podhuvaga en manasu)
  20. Karnatic pure in nature - Sinna kannan azhaikiran - kavikuyil
  21. Karnatic - Mixed Ragas - Punjai Undu - unnal mudiyum thambi
  22. Conversion of existing raga into new one - Mari Mari ninne - Sindhu Bairavi
  23. Starting in Folk Bridging to Complex karnatic raga - Paadariyen - Sindhu Bairavi
  24. Gaanaa songs - Machchi Mannaaru - Ennuyir tholan
  25. Pure English song in a Tamil Film - One two three - Punnagai Mannan
  26. Quasi English - All The Time - Nadodi Thndral
  I like to highlight this. Ilayaraja is the first person who designed songs which starts
  with a rithm and the rithm occupies the entire film. If you hear the rithm alone itself, you can identify the song. 27. Rithm Oriented songs
  There are a number of songs and I list a few.
  
  Aasaiya Kaththula - Johny
  Aattama - Captain Prabhakaran
  Kadoram Lolakku
  Nila adhu vaanaththu
  Malai koil vasalil - Veera
  AAsai adhigam
  Mottai madi
  Kattukuyilu
  MASI MAASAM
  Santhaikku vantha kili.
  
  28. Instrument Oriented Song.
  
  Ilaya nila - Guitar
  Kalakaalmaga Vazhum - Violin
  Raja Rajathi Rajanendra Raja - Drums ( Only Drums)
  Thenmadurai - Piano
  Manamagale - Devar Magan - Nathaswaram
  Potri Paadadi - Devat Magan - Gadam
  Nilavu Thoongum - Mouth Organ
  
  29. Kindal Paattu - O party nalla party
  30. Old song like songs - Paarijatha poove, Naan sirithal deepavali
  31. He used Train sound as rithm in Goods Vandiyile - Kunguma chimizh
  32. Exceptional songs even for Trivilial situations - Karumbu vil - meenkodi Theril
  33. DEVOTIONAL ( JANANI JANANI)
  
  I am tired of thinking any more. Somebody can help me for further list of songs.
  
  I am sure no other music director can imagine doing this. Has any other music director before him or after him has achieved such a feet. I will challenge!
  
  
  2. Background Music(BGM)
  -------------------------------------
  
  Many of us when thinking and speaking about Ilayaraja, we give our emphasis to his songs. But his potential in Background music is amazing. We hardly talk about it because the involvment that is created by virtue of his BGM eliminates the feeling that music added separately after taking the film. Only in the absence of a quality BGM we feel that something is missing and talk about that.
  I will give you an evidence for his talents in BGM. Mr. Piriyadharsan a Malayala Director ( Rated as one top 5 Indian Directors today) produced a monumental film "KALABANI" or "SIRAICHALAI". When the project was started he gave an interview that he was selecting the technitians for the film from the Top 5 of the respective field. He told that he has only one choice for Music and it was Ilayaraja.
  Raja's professionalism in BGM can be best seen in "Mudal Mariathai and Devar Magan". Raja has been accepted by almost all music directors in India as the Best BGM composer all time.
  
  
  3. Trend Setting
  ---------------------
  
  Many people are talking that trend has changed, This MD has changed the Trend and so on. They are using the word "Trend" as a filler without really specifying what they mean by trend.
  
  Ilayaraja changed the following trends.
  
  1. He proved that a Music director can take the entire credit for a song. Before Ilayaraja all songs were either MGR songs or SIVAJI songs or SSR songs or GEMINI songs. And the music directors did not get any credit for their songs. It includes MSV, V.KUMAR, KVM etc.
  Ask anybody whose song is ANNAKILI? It is ILAYARAJA'S song. Whose song is "NALLAVARKKELLAM CHATCHIGAL RENDU" ? Is it a SIVAJI song? No!! It is Ilayaraja's song. He is the person who brought the Music Director from behind the screen to front of the people. People started clapping the hands with enthu seeing the Title " Isai - Ilayaraja". No other MD has got such an appreciation from the public in India before that. People started asking "Isai Yaaru? Ilayarajava? Kandippa Polam!!".
  THIS IS THE TREND SET BY ILAYARAJA.
  
  2. Ilayaraja proved that only his name is sufficient for the film advertisement. People did not bother who is the actor, actress , director, producer. Seeing Ilayaraja they went into the Theatre.
  Kovaithambi advertised "Payanagal Mudivathillai" with Ilayaraja's cut out. Songs made the film running for 250 days.
  .THIS IS THE TREND SET BY ILAYARAJA
  
  
  3. People claim that nowadays musical trend has been shifted to WESTERN. In 1991 ANJALI was released. The songs were declared by Press to be 21st CENTURY MUSIC. At that time only Manirathnam was there to Use Raja's talents in WESTERN MUSIC. Only because of lack of quality customers, many of ilayaraja's talents went unutilised.
  WESTERN MUSIC IS THE TREND SET BY ILAYARAJA.
  
  4. People claim that some of the today's MD's songs are copied by Hindi people. When Ilayaraja was copied by Hindi people for 15 yrs nobody wrote about that. Hindi Music Director "Anand Milind" openly stated that Ilayaraja is as good as the God and he does not feel ashamed to copy Raja as he is taking music from the Musical Guru. All songs in "CHINNATHAMBI" were copied. The song "THUTHTHUTHOO THUTHTHUTHARA" was copied from " Raakamma Kaiya Thattu". When you did not give popularities to these things that time.
  Letting People to copy from Tamil
  THIS IS THE TREND SET BY ILAYARAJA.
  
  5. Some people say that Some of our Music Directors are very popular in Hindi too. Ilayaraja has already done music for Hindi - SADMA. In 80s When he enters into the studio, both sides of the road people from Telugu, Kannadam, Hindi were standing and beggging Ilayaraja to score music for them. But He spent all his time for Tamil Tamil Tamil. He paid the price for dedicating his time only for Tamil films. Today the same Tamil people dare to say that Raja avvalavuthaan.
  He was the first Music Director to perform Music for Many Languages. He gave hit movies in Malayalam, Telugu, Kannadam, Hindi that also frequently except(Hindi).
  THIS IS THE TREND SET BY ILAYARAJA.
  
  6. I like to highlight this. Ilayaraja is the first person who designed songs which starts with a rythm and the rythm occupies the entire film. If you hear the rythm alone itself, you can identify the song.
  I have already given a number of examples.
  THIS IS THE TREND SET BY ILAYARAJA
  
  7. Ilayaraja is the man who has done Miracle with carnatic music in cine songs. The Raga that was used in "Chinna Kannan Azhaikkiran" from kavikuyil is never indented for a happy song. Ilayaraja said that it can be used for happy songs and composed "Chinna Kannan Azhaikkiran" . (Those who know carnatic can explain better)
  Also the song "Mari Mari Ninne" from sindhu Bairavi was sung in a different raga that is beyond the reach of lay people who do not know carnatic music. Ilayaraja with the same Lyrics, changed the Raga and made the song whispered by lay people.
  For the first time in cine songs Ilayaraja started from a flok song that is written in the same Raga as "Mari Mari Ninne" in sindhubairavi, and bridged this folk song to the song "Mari Mari Ninne" itself. It was a miracle declared by carnatic people.
  He mixed two ragas that are complicated and produced the song "Punjai Undu Nanjai Undu" from Unnal Mudium Thambi.
  In 1994 december musical season Ilayarja was honoured bu the music academy for his invention of a new Raga " Panjamugi " and Ilayaraja was requested to start the season by singing. Famous violinist V.V.Subramaniyan explained Ilayaraja's gimmics in cartnatic music.
  In "Sindhu Bairavi" the last song was composed only with "Aarogam", i.e. only increasing swaras. Exactlyb speaking the pitch will never come down. Mathematically it is like a Sawtooth wave.
  THIS IS THE TREND SET BY ILAYARAJA
  
  8. Ilayaraja was paid Rs 40 lacks for Thalabathi in 1991, the highest till then. He was the man who made the music directors to be paid on par with or ahead of actors.
  THIS IS THE TREND SET BY ILAYARAJA
  
  9. Many actors and directors insisted Producers to get the Callsheet from Ilayaraja and then only made commitments. The dependancy was such that if for some reason Ilayaraja stops scoring music the entire Tamil film industry will come to a Halt.
  THIS IS THE TREND SET BY ILAYARAJA
  
  10. After 1976 a lot of recording centres were started bearing Ilayaraja's name and the boards drawn with Raja's photo. They worshipped Raja like a God for promoting their career. This is very evident if you enquire a Recording centre owner.
  THIS IS THE TREND SET BY ILAYARAJA
  
  
  4. CONSISTENCY
  ------------------------
  
  The average number of films Ilayaraja was scoring per year was 40 and in one year he had scored 55 films. The success percentage was more than 75 %. Even the songs which have failed were overshadowed by his other exceptional songs. Many of them were good if you see them alone. Also every hit song will immediately be followed by another one and he kept the people busy. He never gave excuse that for this reason this song failed. Also he never dissappointed the trust we and the customers had on him. Such a success in the industry has no parallel in any industry. There were days when people cursed Raja while coming out of theatre that one song out of 6 was not good. Such was his consistency and productivity.
  
  
  5. CARNATIC MUSIC
  ------------------------------
  
  I have discussed enough about his contributions to Carnatic Music in Para 3. He was appreciated by most of the Carnatic Specialists that his talent in Carnatic Music is in no way inferior to the best in the Carnatic Field.
  
  6. ALBUMS
  ----------------
  
  His famous albums are
  
  1. How To Name it.
  2. Nothing but wind.
  
  Nothing but wind created a record sales in Europe while How to name it is a lesson in the violin Unversities for western Music. Raja has been awarded Honourary Doctor by ARIZONA UNVERSITY (USA) for his services.
  
  His latest touch is obviously "SYMPHONY". I am sure I need not tell the story about this as it is very obvious.
  
  
  7. MULTY LINGUAL PERFOMANCE
  --------------------------------------------------
  
  To get an award for music in Malayalam is more difficult than getting at the national level. Ilayaraja has won the Best Music Director Award in Malayalam too. He gave mega hit songs in all south indian languages. Also he gave hit songs in Hindi Direcrly or Indirectly.
  
  8. CUSTOMIZING SONGS
  -----------------------------------
  
  Ilayaraja decided how the song should be for every actor and director. I will give a list of actors, directors and producers who might have gone null and void in Ilayaraja's absence. I feel Rajinikanth is an exception. He was enhanced by Raja. But in the absence of Raja's music he would have come in a different mould but not necessarily to this extent.
  
  ACTORS
  -------------
  
  Rajinikanth
  ---------------
  
  Right from Murattukkalai you can see the songs enhancing his image. He was built by Raja film by Film. He came out of Raja for Manithan. But at that time he was well estblished. It is debatable whether he dared to use a differnt Music director during his initial stage. Anyhow it is very evident that Ilayaraja has played a vital role in Rajini's success. Even now VEERA was recovered by Ilayaraja which was openly accepted by Super star himself and the public. A failure at that time would have been a big set back to Rajini careerwise and politically.
  
  
  Kamalahasan
  -----------------
  
  He was called "KAADAL ILAVARASAN". For what? Only because of songs in his films. Every Kamal Film had good songs. Particularly Kamal became an aggressive hero only after SAGALAKALAVALLAVAN. Without Raja's songs he is nothing nothing nothing. Kamal Rasigargal forgive me. If you wish we can have a separate debate on this.
  
  
  Vijaykanth
  --------------
  
  After the failure of almost all films finally Vijaykanth got a confirmed berth in the industry when "VAIDEKI KATHTHIRUNTHAAL" was released. I remember the time it was released. The song "RASATHTHI ONNA" was sung like National Anthem. It was followed by "Amman Koil Kizhakkale", "Ninaive Oru Sangeetham", "Poonthotta Kavalkaaran". Then only he settled.
  
  SATHYARAJ, KARTHIK, PRABHU
  -----------------------------------
  
  These guys are also benefited from a number of films like
  
  Walter Vetrivel
  Thirumathi Palanichami
  Kadalora kavithaigal
  Varusham 16
  Kilakku Vaasal
  Agni Natchaththiram
  Chinna Thambi
  Senthamizh Paattu
  
  and a lot more which needs the help of a statistician.
  
  
  OTHER ACTORS
  -----------------------
  
  This is a list of actors who do not have any specialities and survived only because of Ilayaraja.
  
  MOHAN : Payanangal Mudivathillai, Udhaya Geetham, Nan Paadum Paadal, Paadu Nilave, Ilamaikalangal.
  
  RAMARAJAN : Probably the funniest actor
  Enga ooru Pattukaaran, Karagaattakaaran, and many medium hit movies
  
  RAJKIRAN : En Raasaavin Manasula, Aranmanaikili, Ellaame En Raasaathan, Enna Petha Raasa(Producer)
  
  MURALI : Poovilangu, Pagalnilavu, Namma Ooru Poovaaththaa, Poomani
  
  
  DIRECTORS
  -----------------
  
  1. BHARATHIRAJA
  ----------------------------
  
  Can you think of Barathiraja without Ilayaraja's music? Did he get the success he got with Raja after leaving him? I am sure Barathiraja is the person who is benefited most from Raja. He is indebted to Raja like anything. But "Varattu Gouravam" prevents Barathiraja from joining with Raja. It is a quiet natural and very human. Because they were friends in boyhood. While Raja went to the height of controlling the entire cine field, Barathiraja even with the help of magnificent song struggled to secure a win in more than half of his career. He could become only the best director in the field whereas Raja went on to become the King of the Industry. Had Raja not been his childhood friend, he would have digested Raja's success.
  As far as I am concerned, Barathiraja can be accepted as a completely independent director only if he can give a film like "16 vayathinile", "manvaasanai", "alaigal oyvathillai", "Mudal Mariaathai" in the absence of Raaja. Till then he can be considered to have gone null and void in the absence of Ilayaraja.
  
  2. BALACHANDAR
  ----------------------------
  
  You know Balachandar in "Ninaithale Inikkum". You know Balachandar in "Sindhu Bairavi". Where was Balachandar between these two? Take a quick lok at the following films
  SINDHU BAIRAVI
  PUNNAGAI MANNAN
  MANATHIL URUTHI VENDUM
  UNNAL MUDIYUM THAMBI
  PUDHU PUDHU ARTHTHANGAL
  
  What does flash in your mind ? The stories? The actors? The actress? The Awards?
  
  No !!! Songs Songs Songs . These songs went into Record books.
  
  After the success of "Pudhu Pudhu Arththangal" many journals emphasised that the songs played the key roll in the success. Our Balachandar did not accept it . He told in the press that his story only was the vital reason for the success and he was not happy to give the Lion's share to Raja. He also declared that he is not going to use Raja's services anymore. Did he get that quality songs thereafter? No? Don't say Duet! Only two songs that too did not help the film anyway!!
  
  So it is very obvious that Ilayaraja is the Only person responsible for Balachandar's success in the last decade.
  
  3. BALUMAHENDRA
  ------------------------------
  
  Balu himself accepted that He will stay with Raja as long as he does music as Raja played a major roll behind his success.
  To accept the talent one person is good for another talented person. I don't know why Barathiraja and Balachandar in spite of themselves being Giants in their field could not digest Raja's Talents.
  
  
  4. MAHENDRAN
  -----------------------
  
  A completed film before background music is called Double Positive technically. After finishing "Mullum Malarum", Mahendran has shown the Double positive to Distributors. They refused to buy saying it is like documentary. But after Raja completed Rerecording there was a heavy demand among the Distributors. Mahendran also says Ilayaraja made a lot of difference in his Movies.
  
  5. MANIRATHNAM
  ----------------------------
  
  Mani's first two films were to be failed. But Raja salveged his pride.
  
  They are Pagal Nilavu and Idhayakoil
  
  Next is Mounaragam. obviously songs played the key roll.
  
  Next one is Nayagan. Songs and BGM definitely made a difference.
  
  Next one is Agni Natchaththiram. Only reason for success is Songs.
  
  Next one is Idhayaththai Thirudathe. Only songs.
  
  Next one is Anjali. Songs and BGM rescued from a disaster.
  
  Next is Thalabathi. Songs were biggest hits.
  
  Whenever Mani was in crisis, songs helped him a lot. Is that right today?
  
  6.OTHERS
  --------------
  
  The only strength of the following directors is Ilayaraja. In the absence of Raja's music they would not have been noticed at all. ( Selvamani might have survived)
  
  P.Vasu - Chinna Thambi, Walter Vetrivel, Senthamil Pattu
  
  R.V.Udayakumar - Kilakku vaasal, Chinna Gounder, Ponnumani, Ejaman
  
  R.K.Selvamani - Captain Prabhakaran, Chembaruththi, Pulan Visaaranai ( He was benefited by a very good BGM also)
  
  R.Sundarrajan - Vaideki Kaththirunthal, Amman Koil Kilakkale, Payanangal Mudivathillai, Nan Padum Paadal, Rajathi Raja
  
  K.Natraj - Udayageetham, Unnai Nan Sanththen, Ninaive oru sangeetham
  
  Others like Rajkiran, Kalangiam, Kasthuriraja
  
  
  PRODUCERS
  ------------------
  
  1. Sangili Murugan
  2. Kovaithambi
  3. Sathya movies
  4. Sathyajyothi Films
  5. Rajkiran
  6. Amma creations Siva
  7. G.V.Films
  
  If you see the history of these people You see the role of Raja with them.
  
  
  To conclude this topic 8 , if you consolidate you can see that the above people only constituted the entire Tamil Cine Field and Raja being the heart and backbone of each one's success, it is very evident that Raja was the man who survived the entire field between 1976 and 1990. My prevoius argument that had Ilayaraja stopped scoring musivc in that period for some reason, the entire field would have collapsed and come to a halt, makes a little sense.
  
  
  9. TECHNOLOGY IN MUSIC
  ---------------------------------------
  
  Ilayaraja was the first person to indroduce STEREO effect in songs. The film was Priya.
  
  Ilayaraja was the first person to use computers for composing music. The film was VIKRAM.
  
  
  
  10. RAJA'S RESPONSIBILTY IN MAKING THE FILM HIT
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
  If you see Mudal Mariathai and Devar Magan, you can see the dedication and commitment shown by Ilayaraja. In the course of BGM he suggests bit songs and some change in scrrenplay which worked out many times. Infact the name Devar Magan was suggested by Raja, Also in Chinna Goundar, the song "Sollal Adiththa sundari" was suggested by Raja and got a big calp. Also when s
  
  
• From: sathya (@ client-151-200-127-209.bellatlantic.net) on: Thu Jan 1 22:20:57 EST 1998
  
  10. RAJA'S RESPONSIBILTY IN MAKING THE FILM HIT
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
  If you see Mudal Mariathai and Devar Magan, you can see the dedication and commitment shown by Ilayaraja. In the course of BGM he suggests bit songs and some change in scrrenplay which worked out many times. Infact the name Devar Magan was suggested by Raja, Also in Chinna Goundar, the song "Sollal Adiththa sundari" was suggested by Raja and got a big calp. Also when situation requires, he does not hesitate to write Lyrics and Sing himself.
  
  11. HIS PRODUCTIVITY
  ---------------------------------
  
  You might have known this. The six tunes of "Chinna Thambi" were produced in 45 minutes by Ilayaraja. He has completed entire recording of 3 songs right from Tuning in a single day. As I already said He has produced 40 films on an average. i.e. atleast 200 songs an year in addition to rerecording in which raja is the quickest and best (in quality). He finishes BGM in 3 days normally. Apart from all these he spends time in learning carnatic, producing albums, symphony etc. He has completed 10 degrees in Piano in a London University which is the top Piano Univ in the world. He can play every instrument on par with a full time professional and he was one among the top 4 Guitarists in the 80s. His favourite instrument is Guitar.
  
  12.HIS MAGNANIMITY
  ---------------------------------
  
  Many a times Raja has done music at low costs and sometimes at no cost for poor producers to uplift them. In 1993 when Parthiban was struggling for money to complete "Ulle Veliye", Raja told him he may give money for the music if only the film becomes a successful one.
  
  13. PROFESSIONAL COMPOSING
  -----------------------------------------------
  
  His composing style is something unique, extraordinary and stunning. He never asks the technitians to play the song and hear it. He completely writes the song as notes and ask them to play directly. He never changes the music during the course of regersal. It means he completely run the song in mind and exactly produces in the paper.
  Whenever he goes to Bombay for recording, almost all Music Directors crowd at the stuio to view hi professionalism. Famous composer Naushad, the Music Director for Rajkaboor stated that Raja has achieved more tha 100 times other can think about and he has a lot to learn from the Genius Ilayaraja.
  
  14. PROMOTING THE CINE INDUSTRY AND CONSUMER ELECTRONICS
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
  Until 1976 hardly few houses had radios and Taperecorders were rare. Till then even though people liked other songs, they were not ready to spend money over them. But once Raja was in, the whole industry was busy and people were crazy about songs. They started recording songs and all members of the house were keen at assembling whenever Vividbharathi or Neyar Viruppam was scheduled. Statistics reveal that the sale of Radios and taperecorders increased exponentially at that time.
  
  
  
  I like to conclude here. I make a humble request to People cursing Raja. He is our guy who upheld out pride and represented us. You need not appreciate him. Atleast do not wound him. Do not compare Raja with any other Person. He is Beyond comparison. He has nothing more to achieve. Also he need not prove that he is a genius. We have enough evdence. One can atmost aim at equalling his talents.
  I do not argue that other music directors are inferior to Ilayaraja. My arguement is that Ilayaraja is superior to other people.
  
  I am sorry for such a big discussion and I appreciate your patience to read this article and I thank you. If you feel I missed something or I am wrong somewhere do not fail to notify.
  
  Sathya - (vagees@hotmail.com) -(703-709-9589) - virginia
  
  
• From: NOV (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Fri Jan 2 02:24:39 EST 1998
  
  Sathya - Thanks for your personal e-mail, refering me to this site.
  
  Ladies and Gentlemen.
  
  Please stop everything you are doing! Orey moochaaga, yelloarum sollungal paarpoam:
  
  Om namo Ilayaraajayey namaha!
  
  Chant this mantra three times in the morning when you get up, five times before you brush your teeth, seven times before you rinse, nine times before you consume a morsel of food, eleven times before you leave the house, 21 times before midday, 49 times before the sun goes down, 101 times before you sleep. Additionally, recite the mantra 3 times, every time you take a breath.
  
  Om namo Ilayaraajayey namaha!
  
  I bow down thine feet, oh spiritual guru, Satyaji avargaley, for enlightening the ignorant among us....
  
  
• From: vp (@ pluto.nationwide.com) on: Fri Jan 2 09:48:11 EST 1998
  
  As Mr. NOV rightly said, all you guys better wind
  up your discussion (atleast end the comparision of
  Arr , with IR). May be you can discuss how good ARR's music is in a particular song.it would be
  nice of you guys, if you hear the latest hit of the industry, ''kaadalukku mariyaadai's '' songs.
  (by Ilayaraja). then you may change your opinion about ARR himself.
  you guys have very very happy,good & prosperous
  NEW YEAR
  
  
• From: RV (@ 1cust17.max14.san-francisco.ca.ms.uu.net) on: Sat Jan 3 00:38:24 EST 1998
  
  I am sure about one thing:
  
  GR along with SMS, AMR replaced the MKT, PUC generation. Lots of people must hv cribbed about how GR has brought down the purity of carnatic music!
  
  MSV-TKR replace GR. People would hv cribbed about this mellisai being no match to GRs carnatic tunes.
  
  IR replaces MSV. What is this guy doing with songs like "Oram Po!" or "Enna Paatu Paada". This guy calls this dissonace music! I am sure it must sound similar to people who crib today about "Petta Rap".
  
  ARR replaces IR. We have this whole thread! ;-)
  
  Each of them was a giant who brought in several innovations. As time goes on, we lose track of the fact that what we take for granted today was an innovation in that day. Sure, I still dont rate ARR as a giant. but he has the potential to become next giant. Only time can tell though. Would anyone call Saurabh Ganguly a giant today ? He has the potential though.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: r.ravi (@ m32.pppmad.vsnl.net.in) on: Sat Jan 3 13:17:31 EST 1998
  
  Hai RV :
  According to your theory, everybody was a giant in their period of time. Then how do you explain the concept of legends, like mozart, beethoven etc. I 'm sorry Ilayaraaja is not a musician of that sort . He is a legend, probably not even a time machine can beat that. People may come and go, but some people leave their marks. It is said that Isaac Newton was the first and the last intellectual to have been born in this planet. This was quoted by the Nobel prize winner S.Chandrashekar himself. So, going by that Ilayaraaja is Timeless.
  
  
• From: sathya (@ client-151-200-125-155.bellatlantic.net) on: Sun Jan 4 01:01:33 EST 1998
  
  To RV,
  Nobody is immortal. Becoming No 1 does not mean he became superior to Raja. If ir were the case, the student who defeated Kamarajar in the election 1967 should be superior than Kamarajar. I have explained enough why Ilayaraja is beyond comparison. Still you are saying Pettai Rap is equivalent to Orambo and ARR replaced Raja.
  
  It is easy to answer a "Vaatham". It is difficult to answer against a "VITHANDAAVAATHAM". It is difficult to convince you through discussion as your points are prejudiced. You are enforcing your wishes. In my entire discussion nowhere I have given any assumbtion or my wishes. I have written only the facts subtantiated by solid and realistic evidences. Once you defend your arguements with evidences and facts, we shall discuss further. Ganguly has the potential. I agree. But projecting his career assuming same consistency, it is obvious that neither he can score 29 centuries like bradman and an average of 99.94 like him. Say that he is one of the good player. That will be ok. I also projected Rahman's career in my discussion. It also reveals the same.
  
  Sathya
  
  
• From: suresh rajagopalan (@ client-151-200-81-2.nreca.org) on: Fri Jan 9 15:23:05 EST 1998
  
  Hi guys
  
  Whoever has written about illaiyaraja above(the big article) machan un address enakku annuppu - lalla vanthu vizharen. Iguess this article can be published in magazines in india so that the currnt generation will know about ilaiyaraja and stop comparing him with bachus!
  
  
  
  
• From: Vimal (@ 206.103.12.229) on: Sat Jan 10 01:53:18 EST 1998
  
  Dear guys,thank you for your useful discussion.Let it carry on. Illayaraja is the best,no doubt about that.But then,why can't he select some few good movies and give good music,instead of taking Hajjar movies and coming good in only 1 or 2 of them? onething.Don't say that Illayaraja has not copied.Have you listened to Darling....I love you from PRIYA?Its a copy of SUNNY by BONEY M.What I mean is there are only 7 notes and music is nothing but the permutations and combinations of all these notes.But anyway,no one can give music like Raja.In Idhayakoil,in the song Pattuthalaivan padinal pattuthan.... if you observe the Birkha(Gamakkam)in the saranam,Boy,only raja can think of such a music.IIIly, the song Kodaikkala katre from Panneer pushpangal,is simply class,that to if you listen to it in a dull climate or ambience.Raja is wonderful.You can listen to songs of Mouna ragam or Agni nakshathiram even now But Roja or Duet?you'll get feel saturated and dizzy.Even in Devadhi,the song Oru naal is really a phenom,the music is really mind blowing.You can watch the movie VEEDU,a lousy movie 100 tomes,for the BGM.Remember,it has no songs in it.Nalam vazha from Marubadium is a masterpiece.can ARR ever give such a kind of Music ? Touch your heart and tell me guys,can you really enjoy the title song from VANDE MATARAM?its really awful,trash.Please save your sense of music by not listening to such kinds of music.Deva? oh!puleez!
  
  
• From: jayaraj (@ wwwproxy.otis.com) on: Tue Jan 13 23:40:58 EST 1998
  
  you guys are wasting your time
  
  
• From: bala (@ lrclab5.me.utexas.edu) on: Mon Jan 19 20:18:46 EST 1998
  
  hi
  i just happened to be surfing by looking for some good sites for tamil film music when i chanced upon this discussion board.
  should say guys that u people are really turning the HEAT ON.
  i have been an ardent fan of rahman for a long time--ever since roja and have listened to all of his cassettes.
  in a place like bombay(where i was studying at the time that roja was released) where hindi film music essentially holds sway and none of the non-tamilians(i am speaking about the general public here) would know anything about tamil film music, it was astonishing to have all of my friends ask me about what the lyrics in chinna chinna aasai and the songs from thiruda thiruda meant! what do you think was the reason for this sudden interest? i thought it was the music.TFM was "IN THE AIR" so to say and i was pleased as punch needless to add! i never was, before roja, a real music enthusiast--just used to listen to them on and off. but following roja and the other arr films, i was obsessed! and i am very happy for that.
  a disclaimer i suppose would be in order here:
  
  i have no formal training etc in music of any sort and i havent heard most of illaiyaraja's songs--especially the older ones.
  so i wouldn't be in a position to comment on who is better etc which anyway is a very dicey and xtremely subjective issue. so lets put that to rest,ok!
  
  ENJOYMENT and APPRECIATION
  
  i ENJOY arr's music GREATLY. As far as being able to APPRECIATE it goes,there is an intuitive aspect to appreciating music and people can do this whether or not they have a formal training or not.
  You know good music when you hear one--there have been many many arr songs that have conjured up grand and blissful imagery in me with their rhythm and soulful stirrings of the flute or the saxophone--songs which can invigorate and enliven me when i am feeling down.
  for all you know, maybe the xperience would have been better still, had it been illairaja at the helm or someone else for that matter but then everyone's experience with a composition is unique and i couldn't possibly go scouting for all the compositions of all the MD's of the world before i begin to like one, can i?
  
  ARR makes me happy and as of now:
  that is all that matters to me
  
  i am some sort of an ARR fan and can be very biased as such but i realise that the best i can say is that he is far far better than any of his contemporaries--those assembly line MD's that we have now. regarding comparisons to IR, i cannot say and frankly, i don't care!
  
  some of us seem to be comparing him to anand-milind, bally sagoo and calling him a "baccha" etc---PLEASE! GIVE ME A BREAK! who is bally sagoo today and where is he?!!! a one-album(i even forget what that was!) wonder. would u really put rehman in the same class?! come on!
  all fans of IR-i respect your choice of favorite because i sincerely believe you have your own reasons for the choice BUT
  DOWNPLAYING RAHMAN TO PROVE THE SAME IS JUST NOT FAIR.
  
  LET US NOT BE SO PURITANICAL AND CALL ANYTHING THAT IS DIFFERENT AS "GIMMICKS". ARR'S MUSIC IS NOT JUST "GIMMICKS" AND YOU VERY WELL KNOW THAT.
  times have changed, needless to say. In today's world where people are on the fastlane, nothing speaks like success and you have but very few chances to show your mettle. I am sure there are other music directors and maestros who are brilliant(maybe--just maybe even more gifted than the subjects under discussion here) but never made it to this discussion board! WHY? BECAUSE IN TODAY'S WORLD WITH THE SHORTEST OF ATTENTION SPANS AND THE WIDEST OF CHOICES, EVERYTHING HAS TO BE MARKETED--EVERYTHING HAS TO BE DIFFERENT AND RADICAL AND ADAPTIVE TO THE TIMES.
  some of you have sited number of films,hit songs etc as means of showing who is better---but have you stopped to think that there is crass commercialism at work here--IR dared to be "different" at his time and so was popular(lets face it--the whole question here is ultimately of commercial popularity --the voice of the masses.)let us give him credit for that and in the very same breath acknowledge that he is no longer in the same demand now-why? Once a genius--always a genius, right? so, what happened? nothing!
  critical acclaim doesn't count nowadays.if you have nothing different n catchy, you don't have any offers--no exposure--you are not in the public eye--that is it!. no discussion board discusses you! TALENT NEEDS EXPOSURE AND THIS IS ALL THE MORE TRUE IN THE PRESENT TIMES WHEN " THE BEST" CAN END UP BEING NOT RECOGNISED AND FADE INTO OBLIVION. some, like rehman in the present time are clever and adapt i would give them all the credit for it. they needed an opening and they got it.
  the taste of the masses has changed and from the glut of mediocrity and conformity that prevailed, ARR dared to come forth with something different. the technology and the resources are there for the asking--he utilises it and is the toast of the masses--so what is wrong?! It is all just a cycle.
  DONT YOU TELL ME THAT HE IS NOT TALENTED, OK! GIVE HIM CREDIT FOR WHAT HE IS WORTH AND STOP MAKING SILLY COMPARISONS AND DEMEANING THE EFFORTS OF THESE GREAT ACCOMPLISHERS.
  
  regards copying i would say that i envy the artists of all kinds of the past--they could get inspired or copy blatantly and still get away with it--it would be sometime before anyone foundout if at all they did! In today's information age,that is very difficult. so i would say that plagiarism at the worst or inspiration at the least has always been there--it is just that such incidents are more obvious nowadays. let us not forget how times have changed if at all we do need to go ahead and compare any of today's artists to people of yore. that perspective is very essential because for all that we might say, we in the "discussion board" are mere observers passing comments from an ivory tower --without being anywhere in the vicinity of whatever we claim to know so much about.
  
  by the way,please give me a few sites with good ready to download and play -tamil film songs. i would appreciate the same very much.i can just go ahead and enjoy the music without going into the intricacies of form and purity of music and aesthetics etc--of which i know little anyway.
  
  
• From: sathya (@ client-151-200-126-183.bellatlantic.net) on: Mon Jan 19 21:09:49 EST 1998
  
  The topic would not have come at all if people just say that Rahman is a talented MD. i have all CDs of rahman. I like his songs. But i have to answer when people say that Rahaman is better than Raja. This topic and discussions are answers to Rahman fans who deliberately lash at Raja and not to Rahman himself. I discussed why Raja is uncomparable. I did not say in anywhere that Rahman is not talented.
  
  
• From: Madhan, Goa. (@ 202.41.117.3) on: Tue Jan 20 12:43:57 EST 1998
  
  Dear Mr.Balu,
  
  You have been blissfully unaware of IR's songs before the entry of ARR - without taking away the credit from ARR, let me tell you this - on any day, any TFM fan who has been listening to IR since the last 20 years would find it RIDICULOUS when somebody compares IR with ARR - that is the reason why we are trying to defend ourselves - not to offend ARR or his music .
  
  You have also mentioned about ARR's entry bringing a freshness into a music scene characterised by staleness - YOU ARE REFERRING TO HINDI FILM MUSIC - WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TFM - TFM was never stale under IR - you note this without a mistake - it was IR's decision not to compose in Hindi - if he had decided to do that a long time back, with his adaptive genius he would have swayed millions throughout the country as well - maybe, if he had done so, he would have become the target of some Dawood's gang as well !!
  
  So just listening to ARR 's music and cold shouldering IR is stupid to say the least.
  
  
• From: ramachandran (@ m21.pppmad.vsnl.net.in) on: Fri Feb 6 12:59:52 EST 1998
  
  From the above discussions I conclude Ilayaraja is
  a genius.No chota person can be compared with him.
  (say ARR, Deva, etc.,)
  
  
• From: Nanda (@ keane.com) on: Mon Jul 13 14:17:03 EDT 1998
  
  Hi guys,
  Enjoy the music and have fun. You don't have to fight for Raja or Rahman & waste your time. They have their own originalities.
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments