Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

The Five Greatest and Final Avatarams

Topic started by Nithin Sreedevan (@ nc.pr.mcs.net) on Tue Feb 24 19:49:55 EST 1998.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

---

Responses:

• From: Nithin Sreedevan (@ nc.pr.mcs.net) on: Tue Feb 24 20:24:51 EST 1998
  
  Vannakkam Nanbargale.
  
  In every field, there is always one man who simply by a gift of God which is known as genius, accompanied by the penchant for sheer hardwork, achieves unimaginable levels of perfection beyond which others cannot venture, simply because they have to tread the long and arduous path before they succumb to the limitlessness of their task, set by that one man who came by, conquered and stayed forever.
  
  I am posting this personal opinion, following a criticism by one of our thread friends, when I claimed that Raaja is the last avatar in music. Fortunately, Sathya has intervened and given a great explanation.
  
  Here, I am going to place from my deepest of my experiences, thoughts and judgements, who I think have become the greatest and final avatarams in modern popular culture.
  
  The surprising thing is, these Panchavadhiyars (just a play with the word, Panchavadiyam) all are from INDIA.
  
  The first of the five greatest avatars, who have crossed the imaginable limits of achievement in their professions, is of course, we all know
  
  1. Ilaiyaraja, who has no peer from the past, present or future in terms of prolificity, creativity, originality and sheer beauty of his over 3000 songs and many background scores. Closest compatriot in Hollywood films are Andrew Lloyd Webber, John Barry, John Williams, Henri Mancini, Michael Jarre. Closest compatriots in Indian films are: MSV. Salil Chowdhury, Ravindra Jain, RDB.
  
  2. MGR. I make this claim only recently, after seeing his movies for a change. A man whose simplicity, warmth and love for the masses, can bring such levels of endearment, respect and unbounded adoration. MGR has given immense happiness, confidence and respect for the poor and he did this in a very entertaining manner. A genuius who knew his medium to serve the people.
  
  His closest compatriot in Hollywood: Humphrey Bogart, maybe John Wayne.
  
  3. Sivaji Ganesan. What does acting mean? What do you do on the stage to keep the audience hold in great respect and also take your actions into your heart. Well, you should be Sivaji Ganesan. I have seen actors, stars, superstars, but none so ever complete in his talent as this great Legend. A man with a humble, simple personality yet who displayed such a magnitude of regality or kingliness, repertoire of expressions and vast array of dialogues delivery. This man, simply made me love speaking in Tamizh at all time. Well, there can be only one and one such a lovable Sivaji Raja.
  
  His closest Indian compatriot was: Sanjeev Kumar. Hollywood? I can't think of any. Maybe
  Laurence Olivier, well actually Hugh Griffith (Ben Hur and other movies.)
  
  4. Amitabh Bachchan. The ultimate personality a gift of God. Look at that man's personality. While Amitabh does not ooze out MGR's charisma, Sivaji's regality and talent, this man is a composite product, balancing himself in the various traits of his perfect personality. Sometimes, he makes us focus on the undulation of his voice, sometimes the pathos in his eyes, sometimes the simple underplayed flamboyance of his hair and looks! His greatest traits as with the other geniuses mentioned before, is his humility, simplicity and clearly downplaying the huge personality.
  
  His closest Hollywood compatriot: Mabe Gregory Peck and Arnold Swazhzhneger put together.
  
  5. Prem Nazir. My favorite human being. Not because, I consider him the most handsome face ever on the silver screen. I used to watch almost all his movies as a child. This Malayalam star's most peculiar hallmark is his absolute resolute to downplay his looks, his personality and therefore came off as being totally lacking in talent or acting prowess. Let me tell you, Prem Nazir did not need any talent. His mere face was enough to launch a 1000 movies. He nearly did, a man who acted in over 700 movies as a hero! Do see just a few of his protagonist roles in some of the most famous serious art malayalam films, then you will how this man alone inspired some of the great film works in South India. Prem Nazir, whom I did meet just before his death, is so humble and simple that you wish nothing else is important in this world. His greatest contribution to Malayalm films, would be the thousands of all time immortal movie melodies he has inspired in Malayalm films.
  
  His closest Hollywood compatriot is terms of looks: Stephen Boyd (Ben Hur) Cary Grant, maybe Gregory Peck.
  
  Please give me your comments on this observation.
  
  Thank you.
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ greed.cs.umass.edu) on: Tue Feb 24 20:49:06 EST 1998
  
  Except IR the other avatarams are irrelevant to this forum. I request you again to stick to TFM. :-).
  How about a forum to discuss Film related stuff in general... consider that idea.
  
  
• From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on: Tue Feb 24 20:51:30 EST 1998
  
  Nithin:
  
  You left out NTR, the avathaar who replaced even the
  original avathaars, Rama and Krishna. Then what
  about Rajkumar? (go to Karnataka and ask the
  people there)
  Nagesh, Manorama, Sendhil, GoundaMani... etc?
  Just kidding :-))
  
  
• From: Pratap (@ pima.cs.berkeley.edu) on: Tue Feb 24 21:02:43 EST 1998
  
  To Nithin Sreedevan:
  
  My friend, it was fun readind your OPINIONS, but it seems naive to leave S D Burman's name from your IR's closest compatriots list. First of all if your are only talking about film music, which seems to be the case, S D Burman was and is incomparable. Therefore, I think the crown belongs to S. D . Burman, and not IR, who(himself) grew up listening to S D Burman and Salil Chowdhary(another of your compatriots!!).
  
  Again, this is my OPINION :-)
  
  
• From: NOV (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Tue Feb 24 21:05:02 EST 1998
  
  Nithin - I think there is a serious flaw in your analysis. You should have begun with the words: "In my opinion." :-))))
  
  Personally, I couldn't care less about MGR or Prem Nasir, notwithstanding their contributions to the industry and society. So, what is the measure? Isn't Kamal a modern compatriot of Sivaji? What about Kannadhasan? Are his contributions negligible and not worth a mention? What about singers like TMS, SPB, SJ? The list could go on.
  
  You also say that "Ilaiyaraja, who has no peer from the past, present or future...." Are you into hosroscope as well? :-)))) (Sorry no offense meant, but I think you get my drift.)
  
  IR is a great MD. He is a music genius. His songs are enjoyed by millions around the world. He has set several trends in TFM. Why don't we leave it at that, instead of calling him an "avataram" and what-not?
  
  
• From: no_fear (@ bones.deneb.com) on: Wed Feb 25 07:51:26 EST 1998
  
  OOPS, I put my response in the thread "IR's Filmography!"
  
  
  
• From: pg (@ gate02.merck-medco.com) on: Wed Feb 25 09:14:29 EST 1998
  
  Oh my Gawd !
  
  
• From: T.Madhan (@ 202.41.117.3) on: Thu Feb 26 09:30:17 EST 1998
  
  Dear Nitin,
  
  I disagree with your opinion on Amitabh - what is his contribution to Indian cinema ? his rise in the industry was thanks to JAved Akthar's dialogues, taut screenplays and a trend that was created by an array of directors in Hindi cinema of the angry young man revoltinh against the establishment. In fact, Amitabh was the sole reason for the decline in the quality of Hindi cinema over the last 20 years or so. In terms of the methodology adopted, Amitabh is very much like Rajinikanth.
  
  To call Amitabh an Avatar is a bit too much - or even calling IR an avataar is a bit too much - let us not jump to metaphysical branding of names.
  
  Talking of sheer talent and intensity of performances, I would rate Kamal Hassan far ahead of the rest - I mean AMitabh,Sanjeev Kumar or Rajinikanth. Name any other artiste, well-versed in Bharatanatyam,Kathakali, Kathak , who can play the veena with aplomb, who can reduce his height, darken his complexion(Guna), without caring for his image , take risks and still succeed despite failing many times ? For sheer brilliance and versatility, Kamal stands on top. Even IR has agreed that he is a fan of Kamal and that KAmal's Isai Gyanam is the best among actors - listen to Kamal's rendition of one song in CHACHI 420 - his gamakas speak volumes of his talent. And in an interview two yeras back on DOORDARSHAN, IR commented that it is very difficult to score for Kamal's movies because Kamal is a tsk master and would not leave IR until he gets what he wants.
  
  I doubt whether Rajinikanth or Amitabh have put in so much effort in their careers, so intensely and passionately.
  
  Last year, in a STAR TV interview, James Ivory and ISmail Merchant, the duo who made memorable movies in Hollywood, and still continue making them, and whose movies keep grabbing Oscars, commented that " If there are two Indian actors with whom they would like to work with, they are Nasseerudhhin Shah and Kamal Hassan".
  
  Kamal is our very own Robert de Niro, Dustin Hoffman, Al Pacino.
  
  
  
  
  Madhan,Goa.
  
  
  
  
• From: Madhan (@ 202.41.117.3) on: Thu Feb 26 09:35:02 EST 1998
  
  About MGR - don't joke - we are only talking in terms of sheer contibution - MGR's contribution was that he made a fool of Tamil people - no doubt his movies had good messages, but this was all chocolate and candy stuff. So, MGR is out of question - Shivaji Ganesan, yes, agreed a collossus.
  
  
• From: MSK (@ dhcp-877019741.qualcomm.com) on: Fri Feb 27 17:33:32 EST 1998
  
  Madhan.,
  
  I agree kamal has great histrionics. But i like him when he was original and acted in good directors movies like KB , KVishwanath etc. But i cannot digest him lifting Hollywood movies and
  making a big hype out of it. I appreciate his talent. When it comes to acting versality no one even comes close. Salangai Oli , Micheal madhana kama raajan , and a lot more etc are examples.
  
  But when it comes to ethics, HE is no better than our copy cat Deva !! just my personal opinion.
  
  
• From: Madhan (@ 202.41.117.3) on: Sat Feb 28 11:03:28 EST 1998
  
  MSK,
  
  Kamal and Deva - what a comparison ?!!
  
  If Rajinikanth flicks the entire personality of Shatruguan Sinha, it is not wrong . If AMitabh ruins the Hindi cinema quality, it is not wrong - but if Kamal bases his movies on Hollywood movies, it is sacrilege - how about " Mahanadhi " ? what is important here is the final product. Yes, I do agree that as a person, he may not be infallible. Well, in fact, nobody is - but to heap criticism on him for the heck of it is unwarranted.
  
  For that matter, Amitabh raked in crores of ruppees through the Miss.World contest and did nothing for the city of Bangalore, which hosted the event - I was a Bangalore resident then. Amitabh's family members were involved with the most controversial BOFORS scandal case, which rocked the entire nation , but he preferred to keep quiet. Rajinikanth is now giving whatever comments comes to his mind about Tamil Nadu and its people and politics - I am referring to the Coimbatore blasts - for your kind information, Rajinikanth's fan clubs have been dissolved in the entire Coimbatore area and his fans are revolting against for his STUPID , OUTRAGEOUS REMARKS. He is in the very danger of losing his identity among his fans.
  
  So, on a relative scale,Kamal is far better.
  
  
  Madhan,Goa.
  
  
• From: Kamalfan (@ sb-fw1-ny.i11.advantis.net) on: Sat Feb 28 13:17:34 EST 1998
  
  I think Kamal is overrated. (For eg: Kamal was pathetic in Avvai Shanmugi while in contrast Robin Williams in the same role was outstanding and did it effortlessly). People from early in his career have tried to buid a halo around him. Infact, he was much better early in his creer before he started taking himself too seriously.
  
  Rajnikanth is popular because he brings so much grace when he is on the screen.
  
  Kamal should just loosen up and let go of all the hang ups he has.
  
  
• From: MSK (@ dhcp-877019741.qualcomm.com) on: Sat Feb 28 15:22:11 EST 1998
  
  Sorry if this is digression from the main topic.
  
  Hello Madhan.,
  
  I guess u got an impression that i am a Rajini fan just b'cos i said Kamal is no better than Deva when it comes to ethics. This is like: if I say I do not like Sambar then u come and say Chutney is also bad assuming that I am a chutney fan .
  
  What i meant was whether be a actor or a MD, or a engineer , u should have originality - Don't copy on others ideas. It's Plagiarism and not acceptable in a civilised world. In my view , I guess Kamal has a lot of Talent in histrionics, Dance , Vocal and other stuff related to movie making ( Screenplay etc..). But that does'nt mean that u can lift from other's ideas. Then what is the difference between deva using IR's and other's tunes and Kamal.?? No doubt I feel that no-one in Indian cinefield can compare with Kamal's talents.
  But still u need ethics in u'r profession .
  Personal life I don't care, b'cos i know him as an actor and used to like him only for his acting.
  
  So your reply referring to rajini and news abt him does'nt hold water here ., as I never mentioned rajini kanth or compared with Rajinikanth.
  
  Thanks
  
  MSK
  
  PS: BTW, i used to be a big Kamal favourite until Thevar Magan.I never missed any of his movies. maybe until then i was ignorant of his "tactics".
  I can talk abt his performance in Salangai Oli for hours- Gosh how many times i have seen that.
  
  But once i realised his "tactics", i never found any interest in his movies.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ ) on: Tue Aug 29 16:10:50 EDT 2000
  
  Was searching something using infoseek and got this thread..had a good laugh
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments