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Idhayathai `tholaiththa' kavidhai / paattu

Topic started by eden (@ 202.54.71.134) on Sat Aug 14 05:43:20 EDT 1999.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

One of my friends (not a DFer) has a peculiar problem! His non-Tamizh-yet-well-versed-in-Tamizh colleague has challenged him that before `ennavale'song, the idea of idhayathai tholaiththadhu has not occured in Tamizh litt at all, let alone in TFM! He is asking someone to help him to refute this claim!!(I'm not one & I promised to take up with Udhaya, SK, Arul & others in DF) Idhayathai thirudiyadhu, kiLLiyadhu ellam vEndam! Only `tholaiththadhu, means, missed or lost and found elsewhere!

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Responses:

• From: SK (@ azure.nus.edu.sg) on: Sat Aug 14 19:21:02 EDT 1999
  
  eden:
  
  I am glad you brought up this ennavaLE song. When I
  first heard this song,
  
  ennavaLE, adi ennavaLE, en idhayaththai tholaiththvittEn
  
  it immediately looked strange to me. It sounded illogical (still
  does). You can tell your lover things like.. ennai unnidam
  koduththuvittEn or nee en manadhai paRiththuk koNdaai
  etc. That sounds appropriate and the lover will be thrilled to hear
  such words! Kannadhasan has used such things nicely.. examples..
  
  sandhiththa vELaiyil sindhikkavE illai, thandhuvittEn ennai
  
  from 'Nenjirukkum Varai' for male and
  
  eedondrum kELaamal enai angu koduththEn
  
  from Karnan for female. Now idhayaththai tholaiththuvittEn
  obviously means kaadhalan doesn't know where his mind is. If he
  says this (a sensible) kaadhalai will only think that either he is
  roaming around with other girls (and hence he doesn't know to whom
  he has lost his mind) or he is plain stupid that he doen't know he
  has lost his mind to her! Hence the usage sounds very improper
  to me. I don't think Kannadhasan has ever used ennai tholaiththu
  vittEn kind of usage anywhere, as far as I know. If he has used
  such a thing I would only be disappointed! VM uses such things
  simply because he wants to say something different from what others
  have said before, I think.
  
  
• From: thathuvavaathi (@ 1cust53.tnt1.niagara-falls.ny.da.uu.net) on: Sat Aug 14 23:57:39 EDT 1999
  
  Not exactly the same wording... But here is one along those lines (from 'Thambikku endha ooru')...
  
  kaadhalin dheepam ondru
  etrinaale en nenjil !
  ...
  ennai naan thEdi thEdi
  unnidam kaNdu koNdEn !!!
  
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ pm535-37.dialip.mich.net) on: Sun Aug 15 12:16:41 EDT 1999
  
  thaths indha pattai ezhudhinadhu Panchu arunachalam and not Kannadasan
  
  
• From: thathuvavaathi (@ 1cust232.tnt2.niagara-falls.ny.da.uu.net) on: Sun Aug 15 23:24:25 EDT 1999
  
  Ramki ;-))))))
  
  I never said it was written by Kannadasan !
  
  My understanding is that, this DF thread is for bringing out any refrence to 'idhayaththai tholaiththal' in TFM or Non-TFM (could be even in Tamil lit) ;-)
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.156) on: Mon Aug 16 01:04:18 EDT 1999
  
  thathuvavaathi!
  You're right...any ref. in TF / NTF litt will do! Thanks!
  Guys!
  Please open up your memory banks, my friend rang me up from B'lore last night for any such ref.!!
  
  
• From: Amar (@ worf.qntm.com) on: Mon Aug 16 12:09:04 EDT 1999
  
  SK( How are you Keerthi? )
  My understanding of "Ennavaley, Adi Ennavaley" is this( here I am justifying what may or may not be VM's intended meaning ).
  
  "Ennavaley, Adi Ennavaley, Enthan Ithayathai Tholaithuvittein;
  Entha Idham Athu Tholaintha Idham, Antha Idathaiyum Maranthuvittein;
  Unthan Kaalkolusil Athu Tholainthathena, Unthan Kaaladi Thedi Vanthein;
  ....."
  
  Here, the Kaathalan says he had lost his heart somewhere in Kaathali( Kaathaliyin Udhalil Yethovoru Idathil Thannudaiya Idhayathai Tholaithuvittan ) and not somewhere in the world.
  Antha idham kaathaliyin udhalil entha idham( Munbellaam, antha idham kaathaliyin idhayamaagathaan irukkum, kaathalin thooimaiyai kurikkum vaghaiyil, but not anymore, I guess! ) yenru theriyaamal maranthiruntha nerathil, kaathaliyin kaal kolusu satham keithavudan, Aval kaaladiyilthaan thannudaiya ithayathai tholaithathai unarnthu, aval kaaladiyai thedi vanthathaaga Kaathalan paddugiraano?
  
  Eden, I vaguely remember a song that goes like this
  "Enn Idhayathai Tholaithuvittein, Athai Thiruppikkodu....."
  I cannot remember more about this song. Maybe, Ramki can help?
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Mon Aug 16 16:57:37 EDT 1999
  
  While VM brought on many revolutionary aspects to TFM lyrics he also made crass or jarring terms common practice in lyrics.
  
  "pidhungi, nasungi, kasangi" all these verbs were probably not used as much either owing to a more refined if not extensive vocabulary by poets of old.
  
  Kannadhaasan wrote "nalamdhaanaa udalum ullamum"
  Vaali wrote "sugamthaanaa sollu kannae"
  VM wrote "sowkkiyamaa kannae sowkkiyamaa", doesn't that show the trend in TFM vernacular?
  
  There are probably instances of "izhandhuvittaen" in TFM lyrics, but "tholaiththuvittaen", let VM carry the dubious honor of having used this ignoble word, along with his "viyarvai" and "echchil".
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ 98cd22c5.ipt.aol.com) on: Mon Aug 16 17:47:21 EDT 1999
  
  Amar i think you are referring to 'en idhayathai thirudivittai adhai thiruppi kudu'(Swarnalatha and Mano). Its a nice duet by Deva from a Sathyaraj(double role),suganya and soundharya *er(but i cant remember the title)
  
  
• From: Ms (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Mon Aug 16 18:16:04 EDT 1999
  
  udhaya, :-)
  
  
• From: SK (@ panorama2.nus.edu.sg) on: Tue Aug 17 15:31:41 EDT 1999
  
  Amar(EsA: nalam, nalamaRiya aaval):
  
  I read your explanation, but yet to grasp it very
  fully and make some clear logic it. Perhaps if I
  see the movie I'll get a better feel for the song.
  I have seen a video of the song several times.
  But it doesn't convey much except for some computer
  animation gimmicks! I also agree with what Udhaya
  has said about pidhungi, nasungi, kasangi etc.
  In order to prove that he is capable of churning
  out totally NEW ideas in TFM (or even in Thamizh
  lit(t)erature) VM goes to any length to bring in
  strange words and thoughts! Of course it is true
  that there is a mass appeal for this stuff :-(
  
  

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