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Kannadhaasan Vs. Vairamuthu TFM Symposium Topic 10: Poetic Milestones

Topic started by Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on Mon Dec 7 17:59:15 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

A long time ago, prompted by a debate over Sivaji's comments about VM being better than Kannadhaasan, a few of us wanted to objectively conduct a comparison of the two TFM poets based on their actual works. Despite the obvious bias of most contributors, we managed to justify each poet's contribution in the ten given symposium categories:
1)Iyarkai Varnanai
2)Kaadhal Paadalgal
3)Thaththuva Paadalgal
4)Vaarthai Prayoagam
5)Nagaichchuvai Paadalgal
6)Samudhaaya Seerthirutha / Puratchi Paadalgal
7)Vingyaana/Naveena Karuthoottum Paadalgal
8)Ilakkiya Moolam Ulla Paadalgal
9)Kadhaikku Porundhiya Paadalgal (situational songs)
10)Kavidhai Milekarkal (Poetic Milestones that the poets will be remembered by!)

We managed to get as far as Topic 9. I would like to conclude the symposium with topic 10 so this symposium can vie for a permanent thread status in TFM page. There is plenty of research within these topics to be of interest to many TFM fans.

When you nominate a song as a poetic milestone please give a brief explanation as to why you feel the song merits this distinction.

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Responses:

• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Mon Dec 7 18:02:48 EST 1998
  
  This is what went in the symposium thus far:
  
  Kannadhaasan Vs. Vairamuthu TFM Symposium
  
  Topic 1: Iyarkai Varnanai -- http://newtfmpage.com/forum/5253.13.36.50.html
  Topic 2: Kaadhal Paadalgal -- http://newtfmpage.com/forum/26616.16.00.26.html
  Topic 3: Thaththuva Paadalgal -- http://newtfmpage.com/forum/2629.19.13.39.html
  Topic 4: Vaarthai Prayoagam -- http://newtfmpage.com/forum/900.21.34.25.html
  Topic 5: Nagaichchuvai Paadalgal -- http://newtfmpage.com/forum/7455.20.53.03.html
  Topic 6: Samudhaaya Seerthirutha / Puratchi Paadalgal -- http://newtfmpage.com/forum/24861.27953.19.17.02.html
  Topic 7: Vingyaana/Naveena Karuthoottum Paadalgal -- http://newtfmpage.com/forum/18198.21.25.09.html
  Topic 8: Ilakkiya Moolam Ulla Paadalgal -- http://newtfmpage.com/forum/25126.15.35.28.html
  Topic 9: Kadhaikku Porundhiya Paadalgal (situational songs) -- http://newtfmpage.com/forum/16112.14.25.22.html
  
  If you weren't part of the symposium, please check it out to get a feel for it. With a whole new wave of DFers, I thought this a good time to renew this incomplete project. Help me wrap it up, guys.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Mon Dec 7 18:07:45 EST 1998
  
  I meant: This is what went on in the symposium thus far
  
  
• From: vj (@ opah.chemengr.ucsb.edu) on: Mon Dec 7 19:16:19 EST 1998
  
  I recommend you all have a look at(if you already havent):
  
  http://www.aunet.org/ramesh/ramesh.html
  
  at : Algorithmic approach to Tamil verse.....
  to have a laugh and realise something about VM
  
  
  
• From: Shanmugam Murugappan (@ 208.236.83.16) on: Mon Dec 7 20:29:04 EST 1998
  
  Udhaya,
  
  I feel there is no need for this comparison at all. Kannadasan is a legend. VM is a good poet. But, IMO, definitely Kannadasan has reached more poetic milestones than VM.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Mon Dec 7 20:58:29 EST 1998
  
  Kannadhaasan
  Kaalangalil aval vasandham--Divine inspiration by Geethai lead Kannadhaasan to etch this classic which stands tall as the best song of parables.
  Athikkaai Kaai kaai-- With a single word taking the form of noun, verb, adjective and performing every writer's trick in the language--pun, wordplay, rhyme, and marvelous syntax, Kannadhaasan's lyrics are a towering timeless achievement.
  
  Vairamuthu
  Pon Maalaip Pozhuthu--At a time when TFM had sunk to hero worshipping tunes and stale old cliches, VM debuted with this hypnotic ode to dusk. Nature poetry wearing a dashing pudhukkavithai robe arrived thunderously on the scene. Hate the man all you want, but this song is an undeniable classic in TFM, anyone who appreciates the language will appreciate this piece.
  
  Pani Vizhum Malar Vanam--In one of the most limiting sandhams ever comes one of the most vibrantly romantic songs of our time. Top to bottom a classic. A VM milestone.
  
  more to come...
  
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Fri Dec 11 10:35:47 EST 1998
  
  IMHO,
  one of Kannadhasan's milestones is "sippi irukkudhu muththumirukkudhu" from varumaiyin niram sivappu. the beauty of the song is its spontaneity. in an extremely limiting sandham, kannadhasan has incorporated unrequited love, helplessness and sheer romance. i think the song is testimony to his genius as no other song is.
  
  on VM,
  poraale ponnuthayi (the duet) must rank as one of his milestones, especially given the fact that the song is a musical milestone as well, marking ARR's full-fledged foray into pastoral music.
  
  the tune poses great challenge by itself, and the theme is even more. a rustic woman's unsaid love for a city-bred doctor, in the backdrop of the rural social set-up. amazing achievement.
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Fri Dec 11 10:58:39 EST 1998
  
  another song that kannadhasan's genius will definitely be remembered and cherished for is "junior" from avargaL. the situation demanded the expression of suppressed feelings, with the protagonist conveying them through the voice of a ventriloquists's doll, and kannadhasan rose to the occasion to scale new heights.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Fri Dec 11 17:10:25 EST 1998
  
  Thanks for your contributions, cram. I concur with all your worthy selections, sentiments.
  
  
• From: hari (@ gatekeeper.wipsys.soft.net) on: Mon Dec 14 09:04:00 EST 1998
  
  All, Should we not discuss about the virasa paadalgal of both as topic.no.10. (I mean direct meaning
  as well as double meaning songs bu both) This should complete the picture and show the real class
  of KD and real crass of VM. VM: Maasathula muunu naalu padukkanum thaniyaaga (antha nilaavath
  thaan en kaiyilap pudichchen -mudal mariyadai) More to come
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Mon Dec 14 15:20:18 EST 1998
  
  hari,
  I would like this symposium to be a positive one. You are certainly welcome to start a new thread about the vulgar lyrics of TFM poets. In fact, there may be a few threads about this in the Archives already. You can revive one of those. I do agree both have penned subpar to vulgar songs, but I would rather not focus on that in this symposium. Thanks.
  
  
• From: Reva (@ 202.54.37.18) on: Fri Dec 18 23:08:06 EST 1998
  
  Stay
  
  
• From: Reva (@ 202.54.37.18) on: Sun Dec 20 00:12:53 EST 1998
  
  In this forum I have seen a number of comments made about the Lyrics first
  or Tune first issue. It is widely believed that until the late 70s TFM
  was dominated by the Lyrics first approach and that it was Ilayaraja
  who seriously started the thaththagaara (i.e., Tune first) approach in
  TFM! But the truth of the matter is that the thaththagaara approach
  was THE prevalent method in early TFM. It was Kannadhasan who was chiefly
  responsible for bringing the Lyrics first, Tunes next as the dominating
  approach to be used in TFM! He did this remarkable turn around sometime
  in the late 50's. This continued nicely till the middle 70's. Then Ilayaraja
  came in and revived the thaththagaara approach as the dominating method
  in TFM, and this has continued till today... perhaps will continue for ever!
  That is why, as we can all very clearly notice, the lyrics of the songs in
  the period, Late 50's till Middle 70's are the best -- a class superior to
  those till late 50's and the ones after middle 50's!! Those 15 to 20 years
  of golden age for TFM lyrics were mainly due to the efforts of Kannadhasan.
  Let us see this in Kannadhasan's own words...
  
  aaramba kaalangaLil, namadhu isai amaippaaLargaLidam oru pazhakkam uNdu:
  isaiyai mun koottiyE amaiththu, "thaththagaaram"-aaga ezhudhi koduththu
  viduvaargaL. vaarththaigaLaik karuththOdu adhaRkkuLLE thiNiththaaga vENdum.
  andha siramam irundha varai en paadalgaL makkaLidaiyE selvaakku peRa mudiyavillai.
  1957 varai idhE nilaidhaan. idaiyidaiyE ondrireNdu paadalgaL, en manOdharmaththukku
  ezhudhap pattu, mettamaikkap pattirukkindrana.
  
  "nammudaiya thiRamaiyaik kaatuvadhaRkku sondhaththil padam eduppadhudhaan
  vazhi" endru mudivu katti, "Malaiyitta Mangai" endra padaththai eduththEn.
  aasai theera, andha padaththukku 17 paadalgaL ezhudhinEn. piRagu "Sivagangai
  Seemai" vandhadhu. naan ninaiththapadi ellaam ezhudhuvadhaRkku vaayppugaL
  kuvindhana. Cinema paadalgaLin amaippu muRaiyaiyE naan maatrinEn
  endru adakkaththOdu sollikkoLLa virumbugiREn.
  
  Kannadhasan further adds...
  
  naaRseer, aRuseer, eNseer ivai prabalamaanavai. ivatrOdu isai thuRaiyil
  sila pudhiya seeramaippugaLaiyum naan muyandru paarththEn. oru seeril sila
  paadalgaL. udhaaraNaththiRkku: "varavaa" endru kaadhali paadinaal "tharavaa"
  endru kaadhalan paaduvadhu. iru seer paadalgaLukku udhaaraNam: "Sumaithaangi"yil
  varum "maapazhaththu vaNdu", "Paadha KaaNikkai"yil varum "veedu varai uRavu"
  paadalgaL. moondru seer paadalgaLukku "KarNan" padaththil varum "pOi vaa
  magaLE pOi vaa", "Paasa MalargaL" padaththil varum "vaaraai en thOzhi vaaraayO"
  paadalgaL. ivai mattumindri, vanjip paattu, vaNNangaL, sindhu muRaigaL anaiththaiyum
  naan kaiyaaNdu paarththirukkiREn. vaLamaana thamizh thuNaiyaaga irundhadhaal
  pala nErangaLil soRchilambamum payidrirukkiREn. eLiya rasanaikkaaga
  "dappaankuththugaLum" ezhudhiyirukkiREn; siththar gnaanaththilum iRangi
  irukkiREn; bakthi thuRaikkum padaiththirukkiREn. ivaiyanaiththukkum enakku
  kai koduththa thamizhukku mudhalil naan nadri solliyaaga vENdum...
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ ip211.sjc.primenet.com) on: Sun Dec 20 14:51:45 EST 1998
  
  Reva,
  Thanks a lot for bringing a historical perspective to this symposium. It makes one appreciate Kannadhaasan even more.
  
  
• From: Murali Sankar (@ 129.252.23.234) on: Tue Dec 22 02:11:30 EST 1998
  
  An interesting info:
  
  Though KD was responsible for for what such a revolution, he had written songs for tunes for MSV himself. the best eg I can think of is "Vaan nila nila alla". the tune was first composed by MSV and Kaviyarasu had no spark. It seems MSV teased him saying "ennaiyaa kavignar neer ? ONNUmey tho
  Nalainna nilaavai vaithu paattu ezhutha vEndiyadhu thaaney" Of course they were so close to share such statements. Then followed the spate of Nilas in the song.
  
  

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