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Musical Merits &Demerits of IR and ARR [Only for fans, not fanatics!]

Topic started by V (@ 147.129.99.180) on Thu Jul 17 16:26:37 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

To bring our healthy/unhealthy discussion on music merits and demeits of IRR and ARR out of the Thangar Bacchaan thread I starting this thread so that it would be more appropriate.

I expect people who post here to be fans and not typical fanatics. Expecially the young ARR fans and the "Theevira" Raja fans

Thanks!

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: MADDY (@ 203.94.234.15) on: Sat Jul 19 01:35:55 EDT 2003
  
  hey jag,
  praise IR as much u want to... but not by putting ARR down..that's my request.... dunt compare them unnecessarily.... but IR fans never listen to that bcos they are insecure abt. IR themselves..... wat was so gr8 abt. Hey ram,just bcos it had IR's name in title????//
  
  
• From: Mumbai Ramki (@ 203.193.152.201) on: Sat Jul 19 01:37:29 EDT 2003
  
  For ur refernce ,
  Rajnikanth hs got Padma Vibhushan ,while Kamal Has got only Padma Sree .
  
  MSV has got many awards and is not proerly recognised by Media .Nobody except TN peopel knwo himn .DOes that mean that he is inferior to IR or ARR ???
  
  
• From: Mumbai Ramki (@ 203.193.152.201) on: Sat Jul 19 01:39:24 EDT 2003
  
  Sorry typos error ,MSv has not got National awards as ARR
  
  
• From: Mumbai Ramki (@ 203.193.152.201) on: Sat Jul 19 01:42:03 EDT 2003
  
  At the same time i do not agree that ARR copies from west ..It is defintely difficult to compose without some influence .Probably ARR uses loops more than some music directors !!!
  
  
• From: MADDY (@ 203.94.234.15) on: Sat Jul 19 01:55:31 EDT 2003
  
  Mumbai ramki....
  y do u want comparison only on basis of WCM,Carnatic and raagas and y not on the basis of fusion types, punjabi/northie folk, and rock, metal stuff.... cos IR comes up with a blank in all these?...... here is a list of persons who have not only worked with ARR but also appreciated ARR
  http://newtfmpage.com/forum/19911.23517.22.39.10.html
  
  
• From: Mumbai Ramki (@ 203.193.152.201) on: Sat Jul 19 02:12:37 EDT 2003
  
  i saw that post ,but most of them have little knowledge in music except for Webber ..I don't know abt jackson ,i belive he is great in creating sounds .....
  
  If you have people like John Williams ,Goldsmith and some eminent conductors ,carnatic specialists like subudu ,Srinivasa Iyer etc who have praised ARR ,then do presnet that link !!!!Iam not saying ARR does not have music stuff ...
  
  FUsion- IR has done heavy fusion between Carmatic and wester.Just mere use of Carnatic and western instruments does not classify it to fusion.If u listen to How to Name it ,there is a them in which teh background is Bach' s style music and IR has rendered carnatic tune on the top of it !!!
  
  Punjabi/North Folk -What ARR delivered in Laagan was excellent .But i don't know if it is Northie folk !!!
  
  Rock,Metal Stuff-IR does not like that and hence doe snot use it ,simple .But he does not criticsce that too!!!
  
  
• From: Mumbai Ramki (@ 203.193.152.201) on: Sat Jul 19 02:13:36 EDT 2003
  
  Sorry i forgot Nasuret Fateh ALi khan in the last post !!!
  
  
• From: Teja (@ 12.240.72.64) on: Sat Jul 19 03:17:17 EDT 2003
  
  Mumbai Ramki, Jag and other IR fans,
  Why do you even respond to all these mad posts? They are so immature and sound pretty silly. They don't make any sense whatsoever. Those posts only show their ingorance and lack of musical insight.
  Some people can't distinguish between cacaphony and music. Leave them alone in their tiny little world, they won't change. Remember the saying in 'Koopastha mandookam'?
  
  
• From: Paran (@ 203.123.16.51) on: Sat Jul 19 03:57:19 EDT 2003
  
  Weel..I did said...u guys not gonna see my name again..
  but as My friend Maddy is still ard..and some mango-fools trying to point out something funny..
  i had to come back..
  
  Dear Mumbai Ramki,
  "It is good to see that ARR has got so many awards !!!!
  But how many great musicians all around the world ( except for webber) have apprciated his music or his music knowledge ???? "
  
  Have u heard of David Byrne, Sarah Brightman, Michael Jackson..BMG Recording, SONY FILMS?....have heard of them?...i believe u did...
  if u have never heard..then no point i am writing more than this...
  
  
• From: rajasaranam (@ 210.214.131.9) on: Sat Jul 19 05:09:23 EDT 2003
  
  V,
  first lemme clear one thing. i never wanted to defame ARR when we were talking. i started with erotic songs in the movies.i never stated they r vulgar except in one post wer i gav u a challenge on my rights.
  at a point of time i asked u whether u consider thee thee erotic or not.
  u said no, if the visuals r not there the song is not erotic.
  then i went on into explaining abt the lyrics.
  u came back replying that lyrics r not ARRs and still u wer not convinced the song is erotic.
  i went on with a question that when all others strived to make it an erotic song and ARR failed. but when i reread ur post i came upon that uve accepted the song passionate but u were keen on that it is not vulgar.
  immtly i posted asking "i said it is erotic.my interpretation of the slow tune and fast jaadhis made me understand that it conveys slow foreplay and a fast climax. did i say foreplay and climax r vulgar and that it sur interpretation that they r vulgar" and also abt the meaning of passion stating that my dictionary says it strong sexual desire and isnt that erotic?
  u didnt reply to that cleverly and posted this"ARR had won the test by making a passionate song that gelled with the rest of the erotic elements into making a whole package that was audio-visually erotic!
  ARR brought out the passion so wonderfully!"
  and ur next post i thought convinced me that uve accepted it to be erotic was this
  "my interpretation of the slow tune and fast jaadhis made me understand that it conveys slow foreplay and a fast climax"
  Great if it did!
  So you can clearly see that arr by just using the slow tune and fast Jadhis has done what had to be done to the song!
  Thats my Point! No Orgasms! No Vulgarity like "Haaan" "machaaann(in a orgasmic way)"
  Just a slow tune an jadhi!
  Man! How great and brilliant ARR has to be in conveying complex emotions with simple non-vulgar musical elements!
  this is where i thought the topic whether thee thee is erotic is over and ive got go towards proving that IRs songs r non-vulgar. and i attempted at that.
  here was an astonishing discovery i made after listening abt ur sarcasm in the other forum abt bengali songs
  i went and re read all ur posts everywere u were so clever in ur wordings that u didnt accept that song to be erotic.now if i go on towards proving u IRs songs r non-vulgar and if later u come up with a statement that u never accepted that thee thee was erotic and accpeted it as a passionate song only then my whole purpose wud ve been wasted and ive got to go back at proving u frm my dictionaries and the meager english knowledge ive got that passion and eroticism r almost similar. that when i said u r stubborn.and dont want to waste my knowledge over this. am i wrong?????
  
  
  
• From: rajasaranam (@ 210.214.131.9) on: Sat Jul 19 05:12:26 EDT 2003
  
  its true that i go very deep into my theories.
  for me music is not just music i look at music as a art form connected with very many aspects of study which iam interested in like
  1.history - a subject frm which we can trace back the forms of music and its evolution over time
  2.economics - how economy influence music/ a question like why IR is popular among poor/rural and why ARR is popular among rich/urban.
  3.geography - wats the influence of geographical location on music / a question like why does some geographical location gives rise to a specific kind of instrument or a style
  4. politics - its influence / wat r the politics behind IR being rejected by mass media while ARR is being Projected great
  5. sociology - wat kind of musics r liked by various social classes / why gaana songs r popular in slums in and around chennai
  6.literature - u know why
  7.philosophy - philosophical thougts and the various music forms /why does a communists music sound different frm a cpitalists
  8.psycology - psychological aspects of a whole society or an individual to determine how he choses betn different musical forms
  and many other subjects which i wud ve left here. hence my answers to ur queries r elaborate/deep, and i myself am trying to find some answers.may be its wrong. but i find this a pleasure but u mocked at me over this.
  so wat else will i do
  "STOP TALKING AND ENQUIRE WITHIN MYSELF".
  
  
• From: MADDY (@ 203.94.233.18) on: Sat Jul 19 06:35:34 EDT 2003
  
  Mumbai ramki,
  again u look at ARR in a very conventional way.. look at him in a diff. manner..... Subbudu and other carnatic geniuses do not want Carnatic music to progress.... always remember, taking gud things from other cultures and mixing it with our culture always helps.. that's y USA is No.1 country in the world..... so ARR is actually taking Tamil places..... have you ever noticed that TFM music is the best in whole India rite now... it is nuthin but efforts of IR and ARR too.....
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 67.85.193.232) on: Sat Jul 19 10:17:23 EDT 2003
  
  Maddy!!
  Gr8!!
  You are asking everybody to lose identity to see what you see.
  
  
  All,
  Sorry for the Digression
  Thanks Jag!! the Ninne... Telugu Movie Songs were a wonder
  End Digression
  
  I think the topic is Musical Merits of IR and ARR
  I surely cannot claim copying and other things, sometimes i do feel some of the songs are very much resembling the Music in US. For ex: Girlfriend song lyrics sounded very much like the Girlfriend song by Justin Timberlake or i felt it too much, probably it is me.
  
  ARR: Merits: he still has people guessing with whats next, that is a talent IR did not do, for ex: Thalapathy had me guessing what he could give, but Rakamma kaiyathattu with those violins made me surely feel something different.
  Demerits: After a long wait, the expectations grow too much, probably that is the reason, even a small change of melody or not that feel makes it worse
  
  For ex: Parthiban Kanavu by VS had amazing songs, this was not a big deal coz, the expectations were not that much..
  
  So i surely feel the disadvantage of ARR's movies getting released late, and he has too many diversions in other international ventures, and the total high expectations
  
  
  
• From: Karo (@ 128.148.68.110) on: Sat Jul 19 10:26:28 EDT 2003
  
  My simple answer is
  
  IR is a human being.
  
  ARR is a chameleon.
  
  

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