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Creativity of ARR

Topic started by RAJAN (@ proxy-117.iap.bryant.webtv.net) on Sat Jan 10 15:20:00 EST 1998.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Pradeep Ananth (@ slip129-37-159-78.on.ca.ibm.net) on: Tue Nov 17 20:59:47 EST 1998
  
  Cool!! I am honored!!
  Thanks Sri. Here we go. Creativity of ARR?! Wow!
  Before I go ahead on this thread - You might want to look at the website I maintain for ARR(not updated to reflect the happenings of the past couple of months.) But I would love to have comments on it. It has an analysis of ARR's music
  from a person who would have listened to each of his albums(not a single one excluded as far as I know)at least 50 times.
  http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/valley/8839.
  I am now in the process of sprucing up this site,adding a lot more features getting a first-level domain name and have it endorsed by ARR himself as his official website.Will let u know when it happens.
  Anyway, that apart, I had a chance to read the transcript of ARR's "net"erview on rediff.com in August recently.
  There he has clearly stated that the usage of loops was an international trend in the industry when he came in. Loop-based music is something like Object-oriented programming where in u can use the same object in multiple places. Its a "quick and dirty" way to produce results( I mean roaring hits among the public.) ARR admits that under the pressure of the producers/directors for his films he had to use loop-based music for his albums. This music naturally seemed like copies of other tunes. But all through the tunes that lay over these loops were original 100% ARR brand. Now I guess that will help people in the thread on ARR's influence on IR and TFM perceive what I refer to as layered music. ARR has promised though that now he is steering away from that kind of music as he admits that in the long run that might be harmful to his musical creativity.
  ARR's abundant creativity shows up in the layers in which he doesnt use these loops. Unlike IR who just composes music as one single integral unit, where the voice, the percussions, the chords are all written in one sitting ARR doesn't do so. I can say this for sure as I have this coming from one of ARR's main sessions programmer. A song is not complete for ARR when just the tune is ready. Thats just the beginning. The polishing and refining that follow would give him weeks of sleepless nights thereafter. In fact he even tries a lot of singers for each song which is the voice layer!!! So further discussion in this thread should factor into account this layered approach and should be based on more intense scrutiny of ARR's music. Just because a song has some portions that faintly resemble some other song one should not conclude that ARR plagiarises. After all music is composed of just "seven" swaras.
  IMO ARR is a creative genius. When IRR repeated his "Porale Ponnuthayi" tune in Vande Mataram it sounded excellent, but then there was this hue and cry that he has run out of creativity. That was a very short-sighted observation according to me. Nobody can run out of creativity overnight even if one wanted to. The reason ARR cited for repeating that tune was that, he felt that the tune was so wonderful that he did not want to deny the listening pleasure of an international audience. These are all practical approaches to music which people simply fail to see.
  To cap my views I would like to quote three pieces of ARR which according to me are My "Top 3" creative masterpieces.
  1. The use of an instrument( the name I somehow forgot- dilruba or something) that is traditionally used in Death processions in a song like "Urvasi Urvasi" which is a celebration of youth and joy. I bet no one would have realised that it sounded like a sorrowful sound. (U guys remember that interlude that occurs in the middle of the song???)
  2. The Samurai-style opening for the song "Akkadannu Naanga" in Indian.
  3. The Malayalam chant in Dil Se.
  I welcome others additions as well.
  cheers
  
  
• From: SR Kaushik (@ ntws212.cs.wisc.edu) on: Tue Nov 17 21:49:51 EST 1998
  
  Pradeep : While talking about "layers" are you referring to a style of composition? If so, then I think any comparison must be based on output, not on style of composition. I like IR not becuase he can write notes without playing a single instrument but because he is IMO a great composer.
  
  
• From: balaji (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Tue Nov 17 22:07:19 EST 1998
  
  pradeep: please look at things from a broader perspective. usage of new sounds has been done by most MDs, right from MSV-TKR to IR. the samurai style and the malayalam lyrics type of things have been done before (probably the best example is a small interlude in "enakkul oruvan"). such comparisons are inevitable, otherwise we can make sweeping statements about the music of ARR.
  i accept that these things show the creativity of ARR, but are they special(to say that they are masterpieces)??? and i agree with kaushik that the comparison should be based on output and not on how one does the composition.
  
  
• From: Nithin (@ chf-il4-18.ix.netcom.com) on: Wed Nov 18 02:00:25 EST 1998
  
  The Samurai vocals noses are actually sounds of the Ming Dynasty. I mean to say that the sounds are from China and not Japan. There is a big difference here. Japanese traditional sounds are more hitachi or sony type, very electronic. Chinese customary vocal expressions are quite the opposite. They are not electronic. They are more electric, if you see the drift here.
  
  I hope this brings to rest this noise controversy!
  
  Friends, I am just kidding.
  
  
• From: raja (@ spider-ta022.proxy.aol.com) on: Wed Nov 18 08:08:35 EST 1998
  
  Pradeep:
  
  Expecting to read more about ARR's approach to film music from you. Your posts in the other thread about ARR setting new trends had good points - IMO.
  
  Your approach in ending your posts with `cheers' makes pleasant reading :)
  
  
• From: YGeetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Wed Nov 18 08:18:11 EST 1998
  
  Pradeep: Nice One.....I would love to see your web site, but can'r get into the URL you have published above.
  
  Very insightful thoughts, by the way. Please keep them coming. Thanks in advance.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-97.il.us.ibm.net) on: Wed Nov 18 09:21:47 EST 1998
  
  Hi,
  Arr basically lets the musicians to think for themselves. He gives them a free hand. There is no moody atmosphere when you work with him.
  entire India is singing the malayalam pharase after the Dil-se songs.
  The basic reason for ARr victory over other his he was able to create something new.
  
  
  Kaushik: Writing music! So you just love Raja bcos he writes score, there are many western musicians I know who do it here in the US.
  Do not drag Raja into Arr topic.,
  
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ envy.cs.umass.edu) on: Wed Nov 18 09:43:41 EST 1998
  
  Srikanth: Read Kaushik's posting again.. you missed a 'not'. :-).
  
  
• From: Pradeep (@ slip129-37-159-217.on.ca.ibm.net) on: Wed Nov 18 11:08:37 EST 1998
  
  Sorry! I goofed up the URL.
  Here it is: http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/venue/8839
  
  
• From: Srinivas (@ pup36.stanford.edu) on: Wed Nov 18 14:50:04 EST 1998
  
  I don't think the usage of Malalyalam lyrics in the Dil Se songs is much to rave about! (IMHO). If this can be considered a masterpiece, then every small interlude of IR also can be.
  BTW, it is definitely true that mr. ARR is running out of tunes/ stuff. IMHO Dil Se sold mainly due to media hype.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-149.il.us.ibm.net) on: Wed Nov 18 23:11:41 EST 1998
  
  Srinivas :
  When small piece of IR can impress you , ARR small malayalam bit has impressed many.
  Musically it is a master piece.Placing harmony vocals for Classical number is not easy. Arr has handled it very very very well. Vocal Harmony come handy only for western music based song, as the notes are flat. He there is good melody which has a beautyfull harmony, who ever hears it for will hum the pharse along
  
  Media hype and other things are just for talk sake.
  
  Come on! come out of Raja Myth, for the past year it is "nothing but Junk" from him.
  (I know you guys will sing the same pallavi KM...KM..AND KM ...you will add guru FYI:no one knows about guru, other than DF IR fans here
  Dharma, Ponthotam among the major junk. do not make this thread a war zone again)
  
  This thread is on arr's creativity, if you want bash him do it in the thread provided for that and do not spoil others sprit.
  
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: UV (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Thu Nov 19 10:06:09 EST 1998
  
  srikanth,
  What has ARR provided last year -musically????
  
  U can't blame Raja if people are "kiNathu thavaLais".They r the losers . As musician/composer do u really think GURU is not a great album just bcos people didn't know about it.
  
  This is an open challenge.....get one album of ARR which is comparable to GURU in terms of melody, orchestration and variety.And don't try to bewilder me with your 7'th major 18'th chord and all that stuff ;-)))(kiddin'!!!).
  Compare that album of ARR (if any) in a way which could be understood by gjyanasooniyams like me.
  
  Sorry guys ,for the digression.
  
  
• From: UV2 (@ moff351-18.lib.berkeley.edu) on: Thu Nov 19 15:59:02 EST 1998
  
  To UV:
  
  GURU is very mediocore. IR has composed some songs that are 10 times better than GURU. I think any ARR album is better than GURU:)
  
  
• From: Srinivas (@ pup33.stanford.edu) on: Thu Nov 19 16:02:24 EST 1998
  
  Srikanth :
  I appreciate the fact that many people may have found this particular type of chorus enjoyable, while I did not. Without belittling ARR or drawing any comparison, I can only say that Raja had done a harmony with Indian Classical humming in a lot of places. I don't know if you have heard the song "Keeravani- Chilakala" from a Telugu film called anveshana. The prelude to the song is just as u mentioned a vocal harmony with classical music. Having heard much sophisticated and wonderful pieces from IR, I get a feeling of "heard it all before", when I listen to these so-called innovations. :-)). The fact is that IR did everything before. He may not be repeating it however.
  
  Srinivas
  
  
• From: srikanth (@ inet35.us.oracle.com) on: Thu Nov 19 17:13:57 EST 1998
  
  Srinivas,
  
  Are you Vemuri Srinivas, from IITB?? My friend, Gopal Mulagund (friend of Sukesh Pai) talks about you at our home. I too am from IITB - did masters there...
  
  sorry guys for the digression....
  
  
• From: Srinivas (@ pup38.stanford.edu) on: Thu Nov 19 18:19:48 EST 1998
  
  Srikanth @inet35.us.oracle.com : Yup! I know Gopal Mulagund too. Nice to know th
  at you are
  from IITB too. We should meet sometime
  
  
• From: UV (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Fri Nov 20 06:18:07 EST 1998
  
  UV2,
  FYI, i was talking about malayalam movie GURU.If u say any arr album is better than that, well, I'm not gonna argue with you.
  
  

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