Same raga used for different situations

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Topic started by swarapriyan/Murali Sankar (@ 129.252.23.231) on Fri Oct 23 23:39:22 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hope this shall prove a feast to IR fans. IR has invariably used the same raga for conveying different situations eg:

Raga Mohanam:

(1)Vandhadhey kungumam - love
(2)Nilavu thoongum neram - lullaby
(3)Ninnukori varnam - feet tapper
(4)Idhayam oru kovil - meloncholy
(5)Paruvamey - freshness of the dawn

There may be use of anya swaras. but that must not matter to a great extent. This thread may also discuss the works of other MDs. But the appreciation shall be better if different songs in the same raga of an MD is discussed. this may help us get a good look into the versatility of MD.

Responses:

Old responses
From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Sat Jun 17 11:52:41 EDT 2000

hi sridharan,
is naan oru kuzhandai, nee oru kuzhandai set in the same raga?
From: V. Sridharan (@ 193.188.124.140) on: Sat Jun 17 15:13:57 EDT 2000

Hi cram!

Yes indeed. It is one of the best ways Thillang raga has been handled. See the variety of handling the same raga. By the by, Kuththaalakkuyile Kuththaalakkuyile of IR is a copy of Naan oru kuzhandhai.
From: Kamesh (@ 203.106.108.151) on: Sun Jun 18 00:39:43 EDT 2000

V. Sridharan
Thanks for the info. It was so enlightening.
From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Sun Jun 18 03:13:55 EDT 2000

Sridharan,
Kuthalakuile from thirumathi pazhanichaami? i dont see any resemblance with naan oru kuzhandhai atleast for the pallavi. The sandhams are completely different and the notes are different too. Maybe the raaga/scale is the same but that alone does'nt make this song a copy.

If u say it is a copy pl. point out the relevant lines.
From: V. Sridharan (@ 193.188.124.130) on: Sun Jun 18 15:26:18 EDT 2000

Hi Vijay!

Listen to the following lines in Naanoru kuzhandhai -

Oor ariyaamal uravariyaamal yaar varachhonnaal kaattukkulle

and that of the following in kuththaalakkuyile-

Eraatha palliyarai ethotho pogumvarai naane seytha ponnovium

You will see the resemblance.

After that line IR switched to Bhagyeshwari in the latter lines of the stanza.

I like this song of IR. very well tuned. All I have tried to point out is the resemblance.
From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Sun Jun 18 16:19:52 EDT 2000

Sridharan,
Still that does'nt make IR's song a copy;))
From: fan (@ sttl6400gw3poolc117.sttl.uswest.net) on: Sun Jun 18 17:04:42 EDT 2000

Sridharan; many here are big raja fans, so copying is a big term, unless or until a line to line is repeated.... it is not a copy,
can be called as "inspiration"...

msv has done some of the greatest things for tfm, only people who had listened to him in 60-70's knows very well what he is all about, ilayaraja also must have listend to him during that period he might have got inspired.:)

Talking of bagayeshwari; who can forget,
"nee enna enna sonalum kavithai"...

msv's another favorite raga is "kalyanavasantham"...
imho: no one has matched him till date in this raga.

there was confusion for a raga here , for the song "iravum nilayum" from karnan

some say it is saranga, but i feel it is
"hameer kalyani"....
whats is your opinion on this ?
From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Sun Jun 18 17:39:20 EDT 2000

iravum nilavum is neither hameer kalyani nor Saranga. It sounds like Hamsanaadham to me.
From: SL (@ snfca020-0162.splitrock.net) on: Mon Jun 19 01:11:33 EDT 2000

Considering the notes covered in Iravum nilavum one could consider it to be Hamir Kalyani , but the character brought out is that of Saranga pretty much like "Konja NEram ennai maranthEn" from "Siriththu vaazha vENdum". You can compare this with the 'Krishna tharangala...' stanza from the 'Raagam thaanam pallavi' song in 'Shankarabharanam'.
NaaLaam NaaLaam, Lilly malarukku koNdaattam and Radha kaathal varaatha are set to a rare raaga called Ragaesri ,according to a TV program. In the same program Gangai Amaran confessed to have been inspired by the above songs when he composed 'Devi Sridevi un thiruvai...' from 'vaazhvE maayam'.

You can notice contrasting usage of Maand in 'Nenjam Marappathillai' (Nenjam marappathillai), major part of 'AzhagE vaa..' (AaNdavan KattaLai) and 'kalyaana NaaL paarka sollalaama' (parakkum paavai), 'KanjiyilE naan pornthEn nEthu' (nEtru indu naaLai).

'Nila kaayuthu nEram nalla nEram' is a very different composition by IR in Sriragam. Including the mukkals and munagals by SJ ?:)))
From: RAJEEV (@ ) on: Wed Nov 28 23:07:05 EST 2001

Is the song `Athisayaraagam, aanandaraagam` of MSV sung by KJ in Valachi or Mahathi?
From: peeps (@ 203.199.207.198) on: Tue Dec 4 07:13:00 EST 2001

No.Its in "Apoorva Ragangal"..:-)))..NOM
From: Sri (@ ) on: Sun May 2 09:37:52 EDT 2004

Iravum Nilavaum is set in the raga Shudh Saarang

similar to Hamsanadam but has both madhayamams...
From: Guru (@ 202.54.153.21) on: Mon May 3 05:19:31 EDT 2004

Does the Song isayil mayangudhamma also something like sudha saarang . I feel it is somewhat not pure hamsanadham .BTW can you explain the araohanams and avarohanams of Sudha Saarang .

do reply to this
From: Guru (@ 202.54.153.21) on: Mon May 3 05:21:31 EDT 2004

Does the Song isayil mayangudhamma (Hey RAM)also something like sudha saarang . I feel it is somewhat not pure hamsanadham .BTW can you explain the araohanams and avarohanams of Sudha Saarang
From: Suraj (@ ) on: Tue Jul 20 02:54:05 EDT 2004

The new song 'Mazhai Mazhai' (movie: Ullam Ketkumae) also seems to be in the same raga in which 'Iravum Nilavum' is set. It goes like 'mazhai (s r2) mazhai (m1 p)...'. So what do we conclude? its Sudha Saarang? (Its _NOT_ hamsanandam because there is no 'm1' in hamsanandam). and I think its neither sAranga or hamirkalyani since both of these ragas have prathimadhyamam (m2) and NOT m1.

oh well, it could be that I'm wrong with identifying it as 'm1' in these songs... ;)
From: Mythila (@ 156.153.255.243) on: Wed Jul 21 01:16:29 EDT 2004

MuraliShankar, IMO "Paruvame" resembles Vaasanthi and not Mohanam. Probably , u can include "Malargalil aadum ilamai" or
"poovil vandu "(kaadhal oviyam) for the early morning songs in Mohanam.
KVM has composed 2 lovely early morning songs in Mohanam "velli kizhamai vidiyum velai" and "malargal nanainthana paniyaale"
I would like the following Mohanam songs to be included to show Raaja's versatility with Mohanam
"Naan undhan thaayaga vendum"(ullaasa Paravaigal) - for motherly love
"gundu malli gundu malli"(Solla marandha kadhai) -for marital love
"oru kanam oru yugamaaga"(naadodi thenral) - for melancholy
"oru thanga radhathil" - for brotherly love
"indha poovukkoru arasan"(poovarasan)- for romance
"vel muruganukku mottai" - for college type of gaana . I was very impressed with this.
"thaamtha theemtha"(pagalil or iravu) - for dance situation
"cheenathu pattu meni" for chinky type of Mohanam ( I feel chinese music has lotS of resemblence with our music as they also use pentatonic raagas like Mohanam, Hindolam )
"singari pyari pyari" (adhisaya piravi) - funky song. I know many would love to hate this song. But surprisingly, this song is Mohanam with some unique rythm
From: G.Ragavan (@ 203.126.245.198) on: Wed Jul 21 04:08:06 EDT 2004

Hi Mythila,
Vellikizhamai vidium vellai was by MSV. Also "Vel Muruganuku Mottai" was by Deva. There are plenty of songs in Mohanam, I heard. I like "Naanoru Ponoviam Kandean" by IR much.
From: Jagan (@ 61.11.73.84) on: Wed Jul 21 07:40:49 EDT 2004

Velmuranukku is certainely by IR from Puyal padum paatu (if iam right)

You may add Geedham sangeedham .. Kokkarako, ABC-Kaidiyin Dairy, Vaanpole- Salangai oli, Aathoram kathada-Engeyo ketta kural and so on..
From: purv (@ 205.231.28.72) on: Wed Jul 21 21:43:13 EDT 2004

Mythila, 'Thaamthaa Theemthaa' is set to Sudhasaveri. You must pay attention to the phrases in the song. Most of them end in the Pa of Mohanam, which legally makes it Sudhasaveri raagam. Well, Mohanam or Sudhasaveri, still it's a truly enthralling song.

Here are some more Mohanam numbers by IR:

Ennathil Etho- Kallukkul Eeram; I don't know the situation, but sounds like sugarcandy.
Ketkuthadi Koo Koo Koo- Kattumarakaran; probably love duet.
Chingu Chaa Chaa Chinna Raasaa- Ooru Vittu Ooru Vandhu; I didn't really like this song.
Kaathirunthen THaniye- Rasamagan; what a melodious song!
Inimela Nalla Neranthaan- Ponmaana Selvan; What a majestic use of Mohana raagam! Definitely don't miss this one!
Vaanmathiye- Aranmanai Kili; again, majestic song.

I think there may be one melancholic song set to Sudhasaveri raagam. It's not a Tamil song though; it is a Mallu song by G Devarajan that came out in the late 80s. Someone who has watched the Malayalam film 'Neeyethra Dhaanya' maybe could help out here? Is the song 'Pularikal Santhyakal' a pathos song??
From: Mythila (@ 128.88.255.34) on: Thu Jul 22 08:37:11 EDT 2004

purv, Iam damn sure "Thaamtha dheemtha" is more of a Mohanam than SSaveri. I have also read IR's exclusive interview in Kalki long back where he said "thaamtha dheemtha"(with mention about Mohanam as the raaga) , "amyile mayile"(Hamsadhwani in Kadavul amaitha medai) and "kanden engum"(katril varum geetham") were very close to his heart.
Anyways, the thread's objective is to show any TFM MD's prowess to handle a given raaga for various situations and let it not become just making list of songs of a particular raaga.
Now, Deva has also used Mohanam for various situations
"Sigappu dolaaku" - from Kaadha kottai for admiring the beauty of a Rajasthan girl
"Vellarikka" - from the same film(!!) as a gaana song
"priya priya o priya" - from some Sarathkumar film for a romantic duet
From: maacha (@ 203.101.52.22) on: Thu Jul 22 10:57:12 EDT 2004

wow!!! what an excellent thread to get revival!!!
naan andha golden period la illaame poitenne :((
ippo yellam onnu rendu thread thavira vera engayum music pathi discussione illai.
With my miniscule music knowledge, may I say
1. ola kudiyisaiyile - a pleasant usage of Mohanam for folkish scene in tirunelveli md: ir
2. kannan oru kai kuzhandhai - love between husband and wife, expecting a child, bhadrakali, MD: IR
3. engum niraindha iyarkaiyil enna sugamo - wondering about nature's bounty and beauty MD: IR
4. muthathu maada pura - love duet. periya kudumbam - MD: IR
People should immediately listen to these songs and appreciate how differently IR has handled mohanam for different situations.
pinna enna , summavaa IRkku ivalavu fansu???
From: eden (@ 136.2.1.153) on: Thu Jul 22 15:53:48 EDT 2004

maacha,
I was reminded of a 'sandhippu' published in Kumudam (or was it Vikatan?) in the late 70's...Dr Bhanumathi (heroine-singer-MD) meeting the new music sensation IR...

One of her observations (was it appreciation? I don't remember clearly) was Raja using mOhana rAgam a lot...she recommended that Raja should name his next child as mOhan or mOhana:-) (I still remember the naming recommendation clearly, though I cannot reconstruct the original statements from memory..>25 years you see:-))
From: RR (@ 203.199.213.66) on: Thu Jul 22 23:24:55 EDT 2004

Songs in MOhanam by MSV:
Idu Ketkathighattaada (sung brilliantly by BMK)
Sange Muzhangu
Bansayee (?)
and probably many more.
RR
From: MS (@ 24.168.196.217) on: Fri Jul 23 01:09:24 EDT 2004

Mythila:

andha Murali shankar saakshaath naan dhaan. It seems like many of the old threads I started are being revived by on or the other :-) Nice fun to see these popping up.
From: purv (@ 205.231.28.108) on: Fri Jul 23 20:47:37 EDT 2004

Curse me out, will you Mythila!? :-))) I still don't agree, but I won't go any further in regards to 'Thaamtha Theemtha Aadum Ullam Paadum Mohanam.' Yeah, I know the song uses the word 'Mohanam', but then this one song from Netrikann (Raamanin Mohanam) uses the word Mohanam in it, but the song isn't based on Mohanam raagam, right?

You know S'Saveri and Mohanam are very close relatives, just like Hindolam and S'Dhanyasi. Sometimes figuring out an appropriate raaga designation for songs is difficult. A prominent example on my mind right now is 'Ammammammaa Pon Maalai' in Thaalaattu Paadavaa. Is it Hindolam? Is it Sudhadhanyaasi? This song has both Hindolam and S'Dhanyasi phrases.

Anyway, does anyone know what situation for which the G Devarajan Malayalam song I mentionned is used for?
From: Mythila (@ 161.114.64.72) on: Sat Jul 24 06:18:06 EDT 2004

Oh , MS=MuraliShankar.You have started a thread that deserves a very long run.
I think MSV 's most favoured raga is Bhagesri. There are many evergreen songs in Bhagesri
1. thenraladhu unnidathil - Anda 7 naatkal - romantic duet
2. nilave ennidam nerungaadhe - (raamu) -melancholy
3. andharangam naan ariven - (gangagowri)classical touch
4. mayakkum maalai pozhudhe - pang of separation
5. nizhal kandavan (ninaithaale inikkum) - song that portrays the theme of the movie
6. angum ingum - (avargal) - song sounding philosophical

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