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Tamil music today : Ilayaraja's marked absence

Topic started by ramesh rajagopalan (@ 210.214.104.5) on Mon Aug 28 13:40:53 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I'd like to divide this query into 2 parts .

Tamil Music today :
Music in today's Tamil movies has been largely reduced to cacophony.Most songs ,in an attempt for fast paced music , are neither hummable nor melodious.Copying has become shamelessly rampant.
Devaa,raajkumar,vidyasaagar etc .wallowing at the bottom of the barrel are sorry excuses for music directors .For every good song these guys compose ...they compose / copy ten cacophonies. Songs copied from Titanic to Daler Mehndi make a person ( used to the melodies of Raaja and MSV . KVM sick to the heart ).
ARR is a source of relief . His scores are decent (though some have been copied ). His plagiarization is not as rampant as the others .
His scores especially for MR & Shankar really stand out .

Ilayaraja Sorely missed :
In such a sceanrio , the Maestro is sorely missed.I'd like to know why he composes music for so few movies these days.In a way it is good that he will not be overworked and maybe he can go on to compose some symphonies and instrumental albums.However my main query is why has IR's music scores in movies decreased ?Some of the top commercial hits these days have pathetic music and IR's movies inspite of having excellent songs are not making it big ...please comment




Does the audience really like such mediocre music ?? What ills plague the Tamil film music of today ? Guys please express ur self

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: cyk (@ 216.65.106.130) on: Wed Aug 30 07:00:02 EDT 2000
  
  I'm not a big ARR fan (except for a few decent songs) but I think IRFs are trying to insult their idol by retaliating like kids. I dont necessarily agree to everything Karthik says but I think he's right when he says we all have the right to our opinion. After all this thread was started only with that intention, I suppose.
  
  cyk
  
  
• From: sai (@ 63.75.49.120) on: Wed Aug 30 10:32:58 EDT 2000
  
  I donot think it is right to deny karthik the right to voice his opinion. He has expressed them very gracefully unlike some HCIRF who spill venom in their words out of sheer frustration.
  
  
• From: karthi (@ 63.15.178.238) on: Thu Aug 31 01:05:37 EDT 2000
  
  Karthik, "IR's songs till 1990 were gems"-nu neenga sonnadhukkE HCIR fans ungaLai appreciate paNNiyirukkaNum! In my opinion, IR was just only managing the show in the most of 80's - thamizhla sollaNumnaa "oppEthittu irundhaar" - thank God for giving an ARR to save the TFM. Atleast in those days we had "those good hindi songs" to turn to (as some people claim which is partially true also) when IR appeared on the scene, but during the end of IR's regime, he was literally driving us crazy with his more-than-boring rhythms and tunes and worse still we had no good music to turn to except may be some good malayaalam songs...
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 12.10.193.123) on: Thu Aug 31 02:40:23 EDT 2000
  
  I'm sorry (other) Karthi...
  
  I would not say that ARR is the life provider in TFM today. He's one of the better ones. I dont have anything against Deva, SAR, VS etc. Its just that the directors they are working with are so badly in need of sensible scripts.
  
  Karthikraja was very promising after Ullasam but wonder what happened. Again, it makes sense to ponder why these composers dont do so much work! Do you think IR cut down his work, on his own? For a composer who did so many movies per year, its nonsense. Its the producers who found (not better, but cheaper, faster and more approachable) options in other composers.
  
  IR's Bharathy is truly good work, but how many takers are there for it? The object of any form of art is that it should reach out to the people its targetted at. If IR's targetting a few literate elites for Bharathy, it has done its job. But what purpose does it serve to others...'art movie music' is what it'll be termed.
  
  ARR's biggest success has been the fact that producers think of his music as a parallel source of revenue. They are never so integral to the movie as a IR score has been in the past.
  
  Success in any form, is a success after all. More than anything HCARR fans adore him for his humble nature and approach to everything.
  
  Karthik
  
  
• From: Subbu (@ 192.39.71.67) on: Thu Aug 31 06:46:28 EDT 2000
  
  My dear Karthik,
  
  I never asked you to get out of this thread. I am none to do that. I only asked you to be more sensible to avoid grossly wrong examples like when you said 'Oru Naal oru nilavu' was not good.
  
  But somehow you have got an obsession with 'grave'. I can't help it.
  
  Again now you are saying 'If IR's targetting a few literate elites for Bharathy, it has done its job' -- I am confused about this. IR has been asked to score music for Bharathy. He has done that. Just for targetting a wide audience including the so-called city bound hi-fi crowd, he can not put in plastic music into 'Bharathy' album.
  
  If you are asked to score music for a movie on 'Christ' - can you just add two 'Ayyappan' songs so that Hindus will also become the target audience for the album ?
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 12.10.193.123) on: Thu Aug 31 07:37:02 EDT 2000
  
  Exactly my point Subbu!
  
  Bharathy has good music. I agree to it 100% cos I have enjoyed it immensely. But the scope of its music is vastly restricted by the scope of the movie. This is an unfortunate compulsion in Indian films.
  
  Whereas a flop film like 'The Beach' had an excellent soundtrack with artists like All Saints and Moby. It has produced a lot of hit singles while the movie just sank. Thats HOllywood for you.
  
  So given this wierd situation we need to create ways to extend the scope of the music away from the movie so that the music stands out. Afterall HMV bought the rights with the intention of selling it and making money, isnt it?
  
  So what more could you do to a film about Bharathy? Ilayaraja being an experienced hand could have tried something new to exploit such an opportunity. But the music follows a usual period music fashion IMHO. It shows in the simplicity of the songs.
  
  Now I'm not asking him to include extravagant styles like rap or trance 'cos they are simply inappropriate. But if you dont get cross with me, this is the example I have...
  
  Iruvar! Iruvar was a film based in the past...40s, 50s, 60s etc. Given this ARR could have stuck to simplicity in orchestration to reflect that period. But he included Jazz in 'Vennila' and 'hello mr.' numbers. Its Jazz was not the kind of Jazz being used in TFM (to put it mildly) in that period, but more of a world level true blue Jazz.
  
  Similarly, Narumugaye was a modern and well orchestrated 'old fashioned' song! The soundtrack was a progressive experiment done well. Of course a whole loads of that credit should go to Maniratnam for thinking fresh.
  
  Its this progressive thinking I find missing now in IR. But again this is a personal opinion, it doesnt stop me from listening to Bharathy day in and day out! :-)
  
  Karthik
  
  
• From: Prakash (@ 195.107.47.196) on: Thu Aug 31 10:52:47 EDT 2000
  
  that is the point karthik-songs like those in iruvar could fit any period-whereas Barathy can fit only that period.Songs from Iruvar could be in ,say ,a movie like Kandukondain...and you will never know the difference.I think to be honest,the songs in barathy should have been something like in sivakavi or haridas which were closer to that period-would you have accepted that.I remember reading a review for heyram.It said'the only jarring note was that the song raamar aanalum' did not fit the period mould 'it seems!Ippadi pannalum thappu,appadi pannalum thappu!
  the music for a period film should be appropraiate for the period.Infact,I remember reading a review for barathy which noted the absence use of any synthetic sounds to a good effect-I think this is what the makers of barathy were trying to achieve.
  have you reflected to the fact that serious film makers (for the past 20 years )have always gone to IR when it is felt that BGM is going to make a lot of difference to the final product?IR remains the king in BGM which is definitely more serious business.As someone has very nicely pointed out,ARR remains ,and will always be good Album maker only.all in my HO!
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 12.10.193.123) on: Sat Sep 2 03:12:32 EDT 2000
  
  Yes Prakash...
  
  I give in. Your logic is solid. Actually Rahman's biggest success, as I earlier mentioned, is being the best source of parallel revenue to any film maker. The film maker considers Rahman's music as a separate entity to earn bucks!
  
  Thats the reason why I look forward to Rahman's two period films in Hindi, Aamir Khan's Lagaan (based in 1890s) and Raj Kumar Santoshi's The Legend of Bhagat Singh! The songs on their own will be a sell out while nobody would comment much on their relevance to the movie.
  
  Rahman's music for 1947/Earth was good too! But nobody commented the modern usage of orchestration in dheemi dheemi! But the song was simply breathtaking! Guess its just a new trend of irreverence - to break old rules and form ur own set of new rules for composing! IR could try it too - I'm sure the master will top the existing composers if he attempts his own way of irreverence!
  
  Karthik S
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 63.202.173.231) on: Sat Sep 2 11:25:27 EDT 2000
  
  I think Prakash has got a point. When rAja does a song it goes very well with whats happening on the movie. Take for example, 'mannaVa mannavA, mannAthi, mannan allavA'. The song starts with a baby crying, the interlude music goes well with the plot to poison the milk that goes to the household of the woman who is singing the song. This kind of BGM+song is done in many movies by rAja.The music and emotions are perfect and it goes with the story line.
  When rAja wants to highlight his melodies he does it with minimum orchestration like in sindhu bhairavi, bArathy. I am sure you will understand that composing original melodies, with a good flow for the whole song is a difficult task. Take ARR for example, the last few albums I have been following, one song or other has bits and pieces of other songs. So when it comes to melodies people are not able to discern the quality/originality. So SAR, rAja are all in the same plane as far as these consumers are concerned.
  Re: modern orchestration. Take POP for example, how often do we listen to the 80s synth music but we do listen to the guitar/electric guitar based 70s music. That is why I think the modern POP/techno stuff are all passing fads. Many of ARRs songs are POP beat (synth drum) based. I am not sure we would listen to these after a few years. The sounds will change with the progress in electronics. I dont know how the 1947/Earth song sounds ..but I get a rush when i listen to HEy Ram song in Hey Ram or vandE mataram in bArathy. These are march songs done very well for the indian context.
  If we understand the motivation of rAja we will be able to enjoy his much better. For eg. I bought a book called 'Understanding Mozart' or something like that. We have to do our due diligence for serious composers.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 63.202.173.231) on: Sat Sep 2 11:25:37 EDT 2000
  
  I think Prakash has got a point. When rAja does a song it goes very well with whats happening on the movie. Take for example, 'mannaVa mannavA, mannAthi, mannan allavA'. The song starts with a baby crying, the interlude music goes well with the plot to poison the milk that goes to the household of the woman who is singing the song. This kind of BGM+song is done in many movies by rAja.The music and emotions are perfect and it goes with the story line.
  When rAja wants to highlight his melodies he does it with minimum orchestration like in sindhu bhairavi, bArathy. I am sure you will understand that composing original melodies, with a good flow for the whole song is a difficult task. Take ARR for example, the last few albums I have been following, one song or other has bits and pieces of other songs. So when it comes to melodies people are not able to discern the quality/originality. So SAR, rAja are all in the same plane as far as these consumers are concerned.
  Re: modern orchestration. Take POP for example, how often do we listen to the 80s synth music but we do listen to the guitar/electric guitar based 70s music. That is why I think the modern POP/techno stuff are all passing fads. Many of ARRs songs are POP beat (synth drum) based. I am not sure we would listen to these after a few years. The sounds will change with the progress in electronics. I dont know how the 1947/Earth song sounds ..but I get a rush when i listen to HEy Ram song in Hey Ram or vandE mataram in bArathy. These are march songs done very well for the indian context.
  If we understand the motivation of rAja we will be able to enjoy his much better. For eg. I bought a book called 'Understanding Mozart' or something like that. We have to do our due diligence for serious composers.
  
  

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