Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

New Releases by ARR??

Topic started by Srikanth (@ passport.proxy.lucent.com) on Mon Sep 15 10:23:15 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Wed Feb 24 06:39:56 EST 1999
  
  Ah!Dear Kumar. I hold only two arguments against Rahman? Well, if i started listing out all the complaints, this thread will derail to the point of no return. So, we had better transfer this discussion to some other thread.
  
  Well, atleast as far as TFM was concerned, when Rahman came in the only kind of music that had substantial appeal was the Raja kind and it was just that people were having too much of Amudhu. For a change, they tried Nanju and apparently found a lot of kick in it. They are getting slowly poisoned,IMO, and will realise it soon when effects begin to show...actually, they are beginning to show...these days, anyone and evryone can score music for a TF...anarchy prevails and copying goes on Left, Right and centre. In short, TFM today is resembling HFM of the 80's. Many of us used to cry foul when A-M's and AM's lifted Raja's and then Rahman's scores. But what price our lifts from all sources now? People have begun to ask "So what if ARR or Deva copies..so long as the song appeals to you , what the heck?" . Even someone with profound knowledge like Geetha asked me once "So what if Deva copies...so long as he appeals to people?" in this very thread .That, IMO, is the most destructive contribution of these modern-day jacks to TFM. I wont hold ARR responsible for the Copying of others, though he himelf is not absolutely innocent on this score. Still, it is incompetence to come up regularly with quality stuff that causes others to flourish. Ofcourse, one cant blame him for his lack of genius. Still, when it comes to speaking of him inn the same breath as Raja, he has to
  1) Stop sounding repetitive
  2)Consistently and frequently come up with innovative scores.
  
  Secondly Rahman hasn't changed the style of music of either HFM or TFM. In HFM, Jatin-lalit with their heavily RDB inspired style are coming up with frequent and passable hits. There was even Raja's influence on them in songs like
  1.Yeh dil sun raha hai in KHAMOSHI
  2.Betaab hum awaara hum hai in BADA DIN
  
  Their style certainly isnt influenced by Rahman. Rahman with his tyle has his own niche, a small one , thats all.
  
  In TFM , ketkave vendaaam. Anything goes. Rehman is not as dominant as Raja was. Certainly, he didnt change the style of TFM. Even newcomers like Bobby show a discernible influence of Raja. Ihave not seen anyone influenced by Rehman. If anything, Rehman is influenced by his initial style so much that he is unable to come out of his limitations.
  If you say Raja is not dominant now, well, so be it. If people want nanju against amudhu it is their choice. It doesnt in any way demean amudhu.
  
  More later..but preferrably,lets move out of this thread ...it can do without my Rahman Bashing:)
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Wed Feb 24 07:00:28 EST 1999
  
  "People who listen to rahman's music dont buy cd's in every language hoping it sounds different to satiate their thirst for his songs, they get it because of several other reasons...for example, one would be the language barrier, when u buy something in Hindi and it was first made in tamil, the songs were originally tamil and to get the full potential out of the music it must be heard in tamil....however, since his music is soo good people must buy it in their native language as well. "
  
  
  Well, I confess this is the most difficult passage I have encountered in this DF. TO decipher, I mean. Visu couldnt have done better:)
  
  Still, being a stoic, tenacious trier ever, let me have a stab at comprehension:
  I suppose you mean that when a Hindi guy hears some Rahman score in Tamil he is so impressed that he buys it inspite of lack of knowledge of Tamil. Maybe, your argument is that after that when it is released in Hindi, this Hindi guy is overjoyed and buys it again to enjoy it with lyrics. There are two flaws, if this is what you mean:
  
  1. Since when did knowledge of Tamil become a necessary condition for understanding ARR'S "tamil" albums?( A majority of Rahmans popular albums among North Indians- well, I think we are referring to Roja, Bombay,Sapnay and..is there any more?-didnt have any profound lyrics in Tamil.
  2. The hindi versions of Roja, Bombay etc. have lousy lyrics anyway...
  
  OTOH, I was complaining about Tamilians who were buying it in Tamil, hindi and Telugu(thank God, MR's and Shankars dont have a market in Malayalam, Gujarati etc..these guys will go paupers, then:)).
  
  They first buy Minsaara Kanavu. I suppose they will be sufficiently well-versed in Tamil to understand the various profoundities in this Tamil album-atleast, the ones I am referring to did. So, why do they go ahead and buy Sapnay six months later and Merupu kalalu 10 months later?Your argument that
  "however, since his music is soo good people must buy it in their native language as well. " doesnt hold therefore because their NATIVE language is TAMIL!
  The reason, face it, my dear , is that he cannot come up with sufficeint number of good, new tunes , albums within a tolerable time limit. And when he does come up with his second album for the year after a painstaking six months , do we see SIX MONTHS of effort in it? No, it is just the same old stuff recycled. So, what on earth did he take six months worth of effort for? Dont tell me the kind of movies he has scored for are so difficult to score for that he has to take so much pains ? Anyway, does the resultant output show all that effort?If so,in what way? Please explain.
  
  Lets get one thing clear.Rahman is good. But he is not in the same level as Raja. Please dont insult Raja by talking of Rahman as a replacement for Raja. He is only a substitute(a comparitively poorer one, at that). Maybe, one day I'll see someone who matches Raja's brilliance(I still am cynical about that happening)...but Iam sure its not Rehman.
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Wed Feb 24 07:27:51 EST 1999
  
  Raj: VIDHYASAAGAR is one of those MD's who's doing very well in TFM and has got a very good name from you guys who is HEAVILY INSPIRED by ARR. Look at the songs from Uyirodu Uyiraaga, Priyam e.t.c... I can quote the Chakravakham number Nadhiondu(just a re-hash of Vidukadhaiyaa - Muthu....), Nothing, re-hash of song from Kaadhalan e.t.c....
  
  KARTHIK RAJA, again, very inspired by ARR for layering his music.... IR himself has started to do this in his recent movies..... Can you give me a technical reason for these MD's being RAHMANISH?
  
  Also, for you pointing out my comment about Deva, what can I say, listen to Aaagaasa Vani(Edho Ehho - MVU) and Ilave Neekaala Panchami(a heavy Mustafa beat sound!) from MUV and, Diana Diana(Oru Mani) from KK, most songs from KK - Best TFM of the year from the DF poll....Where is the 'inspiration' of IR from? - and you guys give him so much credit for those numbers... The songs of Deva which are appreciated are those like 'Kanave Kalayaadhe', 'Eeswara', which 'sound good', Kanave has a sound carnatic background and is an excellent song, if it is copied, well, if IR can do Re-hash's, so can Deva and the others.....Of course, I cannot say that Deva is a 'talented' guy, as he directly lifts so many songs, Salomiya for example....and neither does Deva ever claim that he's a Great Musician.
  
  Another point, the reason I buy some albums(By the way, I have a lot of IR's Hindi and Tamil ones too, before I get any attacks) in Hindi/Tamil/Malayalam is because of the variations in SINGERS and GAMAKAMA/BRIKAS. An prime example, listen to Hari's rendition of Thuhire in Bombay Hindi Version and Uyire in the Tamil.... There are many such variations that I'm interested in listening to. It's the use of a particular singer or the variation, slight it may be which makes people buy these in different languages......
  Another point, I do not understand a word of Hindi/Malayaalam and also do not have a great understanding of Tamil, so in my case, it's not a language reason for buying. I am a collector of Carnatic krithis which are in Telugu/Sanskrit but translated to Tamil - This doesn't mean that I'm wasting money, I have a vested interest in Tamil, that's all. You will all remember the scenes in SINDHUBAIRAVHI which also show Suhaasini singing Needhayaradha in Tamil - Un Dhayavillaye - A quote from a Raja Great, so no one can pounce on me for not having heard IR's music, in order to make comparisons...... I rest my case.
  
  By the way, not to offend anyone, I saw 'FIRE' the other day, and I was really not impressed by ARR's BGM.....He used the Bombay theme too much and the rest of it was 'weired'? Does anyone else feel the same? In comparison of how BGM should be, listen to the BGM of Sindhubairavhi/Ragigan Oru Ragsigaai by IR. That's really stunning.... I think that BGM is a very big flaw of ARR.....
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Wed Feb 24 07:48:56 EST 1999
  
  Geetha: As I said, I was only placing things in their perspective Rahman viz-a-viz Raja. I pointed out your comment about Deva because well, I am sure you are much too knowledgeable in music to accept Deva as a musician. I cant quote one sigle solitary technical reason for anything but to me, the issue is more moral and ethical. So, when people like you start accepting Deva, it is bad for TFM, is what I feel. And this came about simply because Rahman doesnt have the genius to keep you occupied throughput the year with more and more quality output. Hence you are forced to deign to go down to Deva's level. It is much like this:
  When I find that there is nothing to argue for in this DF, i go and do my office work, for a change:)
  
  So, my point was strictly about ARR<<<
  Your reasons for buying different language-same album is acceptable -it is certainly a new perspective to me. But all the guys I knew who used to buy same album-diff. lang was for the reason I quoted. So, you are an exception rather than a rule. That doesnt still refute the fact that Rahman is not speakable in the same level as Raja.
  
  
  Finally, about Raja rehashing. The only songs among the ones you have quoted that I have had opportunity to hear are "Diana" and"Oru mani". I find no resemblance whatsoever . Vijay pointed out somewhere that is note-by-note they are much, much different. This cannot be called rehashing- I am sure that Raja didnt sit in front of a satellite TV, happen to watch the great Deva masterpiece "Oru mani adithaal" and immediatley, a flash goes.."Hey", Raja thinks ,"now,how didnt this tune occur to me before?..Now,now, I have to make a similar tune" and then set out to hack Devas tune note-note and come up with Diana . I am sure such a thing didnt happen. Do you believe something like this happened?
  I believe Raja watches only Discovery,BBC and CNN.
  No, no dont bring in stuff like "Raja copied ..so Deva or Rahman have free licence to copy".
  I'll continue lateer as my manager is peeping in:)
  
  
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Wed Feb 24 09:31:32 EST 1999
  
  Raj: What about the Ila Arun Number in KK? It's so much like Muthu Muthu from ARR's Mr Romeo.... hhhhmmm where was the inspiration for this? Was it from BBC/Discovery/CNN? Did they suddenly play Oru Mani Adithaal on BBC or Mr Romeo songs on Discovery? Please don't get me wrong, your view is a little niave don't you think? In this day of sattelite TV in every house in India, do you really believe that he hasn't heard any other MD's music? It's like ARR is once said to have commented, 'I listen to no other MD's music'....hhhmmmmm, where can the truth be in that? I never said, "Raja copied ..so Deva or Rahman have free licence to copy", however, if OUR STANDARD - IR, for TFM does these things - nowadays, more than in the past(admit it, Deva is in a similar boat to him, many many films, not enough time to create tunes), other MD's are bound to follow suit....Deva, of course takes the 'copying' thing to a limit most of the time, but is also aware of his 'limitation'....
  
  Please do listen to the other numbers I mentioned, it may reveal why I'm so upset with IR. After his many master-pieces in TFM, why is he choosing to create music like Thathithakka by Ila Arun? This is my quib with his recent music. I heard the songs and BGM of Rajavin Paarvaiyile and it was so much better, however, when IR does an ARRish album like KK and MVU, all of you commend it like crazy?!?!? When ARR does it, to 'his style', may I add, you put him down.
  
  Raj, for your comment, "So, when people like you start accepting Deva, it is bad for TFM, is what I feel. And this came about simply because Rahman doesnt have the genius to keep you occupied throughput the year with more and more quality output. Hence you are forced to deign to go down to Deva's level."
  
  What can I say, I spend my time listening to all TFM, how many songs in my list hadn't YOU listened to? I listen to those of every MD, not just ARR. It's like you condeming the Trinity of Carnatic Music, saying that one is better than the other. My preference will be Dikshitar for the 'technical' complexity of his compositions, but I do not condem Thayagarajar for not exploring this aspect but concentrating on the 'Bhakthi' aspect(9 types of Bhakthi). I appreciate both for their individual talent. Likewise, I listen to all that is available and make my own compilations of the best songs, whoever the MD is..... Many a time, I pick one or two good songs out of every album, as very rarely are all the songs listenable.... In the case of ARR, I must admit, most songs grow on one for a while and after that, only the good one's remain in memory....e.g. In Uyire, 'Nenjinile', 'Poongaatrile', in Jeans, 'Kannodu' and 'Adhisayam'.... This is also true for other MD's.....
  
  So, in your books, it's OK for Karthik Raja or Vidhyasaagar or even IR nowadays, to sound ARRish, but not ARR(to sound like himself)?
  
  I will also add, as many have said before, IMO, IR's new work is not comparable to his work of the Eighties, if you remember the music of Pagal Nilavu, for example, it's totally 'fresh' even now. My main concern is that in his new attempts, e.g. Nandhavanakuyile from Ponnuveetukaaran, excellent melody, IMO, Bad interludes and orchestration....However, the exception to all these is Alai Meedhu from KK....Again, he's used the layering technique, from the bass to the flowing instrumentation, LAYERING being an ARR technique. I will say that it's a brilliant attempt with the technique and that he should do more like it.
  
  By the way, a lot of this type of discussion is in this thread.....I'll try and revive it and we can discuss further there.....
  
  Great Impact of ARR on Indian contemporary Music and IsaiGnani
  
  BACK TO ARR's NEW RELEASES.....
  
  I'm really looking forward to Sangamam.....I am waiting to see how ARR has handled Carnatic Music, his efforts so far, like Margazli Poove, Kannodu and Nenjinile have been good, so my expectations are high.....
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments