Topic started by OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on Mon Apr 15 02:26:51 EDT 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
Shyam Benegal: You were accomplished in cinematic grammar from the start. How did you get the Tamil audiences (habituated to theatricality, histrionics and rhetoric) to transcend conventional ways of looking at cinema?
THE HINDU - Chat with Mani Ratnam
Following is the original, for which Mr.Benegal has taken pains to translate it into English!Thanks Benegal Saab!
From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Mon Apr 8 11:09:19 EDT 2002
Bollwood was magnanimous enough to give Sivaji Ganesan the Dadasaheb Phalke award ahead of Mamta Kularni and Deepak Tijouri.
You southies always complain.
Let me list out what we Bollwood have :
We have 700+ territories with 80% of them in Bihar/MP/UP.Bahut pade log hai uthar .. 4th class!
We have Anu malik,NS,SD,JL .Thumara Rehman competer megeek martha hai!Ithar Sab original hai!
We have sophisticated Star material in Rahul Roy,Saif Ali khan ,Esha Deol ,Bobby deol to name a few. Pehle hamare paas Ranjit,Jeetendar,Dharmindar ,Rajendra Kumar ,Jagdeep tha!Madrasi log Rajinikant ke peche pade hei! Vo kali beedi martha hai!
We have talented directors like Mahesh Bhatt,raj Kanwar who make original movies.Dekh! Criminal film was Bhatt Saab s autobiography!
We have the best dancer in Sanjay Dutt!Thumara Prabhu Deva acha natchtha hai lekin sanju baba ka steps isse badiya hai.Woh kamal ka aadmi hai,Langda ka Role be kiya isne!
Sadhanaji ka hair ishtyle Stefi Graf ne copy kiya!
Asha Parekhji bahuti decent our Kamyabi thi.So we made her the censor board chairperson.Tomorrow we are going to elect Pooja Bhatt or Mamata Kularni for the post but you will still complain.
Hamara Salman ka muscles... Awaz nahe mangtha!Iska Nasional Geogrphy channel may be chance mila !
Hamara Amir Dhai lakh dollar Karcha kiya.Kai ke liye!Bharat ko ek AShkar milne keliye.Tumara Maniratnam kiniratnam aisa karega kya!Ashkar kali gora log jeethraha hai!
Hamre paas Kumar Sanu hai!Vo Mu se nahi Nak se Gaath hai!Thumara SPB kya ..hamesha mu se gatha hai!Sanu da ka kaam kitna mushkil malum hai kya?
Amitab ..kya aadmi hai..kitna hoshyari our buddhiman he!Ishtar TV dekh!Usko sabi jawab malum hai Phir be Roz Lakhon rupiya karcha kartha hai!Kabhi kabhi Karodo rupiya be!Isilye isko "Pershonalty of the year" mila.Agale saal hum Abishek ko denewale hai.Baath ho gaya!
Sabse uppar Hamare paas Johnny lever hai!we have instituted Dada Saheb Kondke award and we are giving johnny the award this year.Tum log be koshish karlo yaar!Kondke saaab ka "Diya Tere haath me" "Kol de teri Zuban" film ko Angrez log ne Ashkar nai diya!Kya film hai!
Clerk naam pe ek philm hamare Manoj Kumar saab ne kiya.Isse bada comedy film kaun banayega?
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: vengayam (@ 203.200.84.66)
on: Tue Apr 16 04:57:47 EDT 2002
OISG, Before we go further I'll like to know how many SB movies have you seen. My guess would be probably < 2.That is why you make the mistake of saying that veshti kattiya, "Aiyayo ji" solla ra comedians come in his movies. SByoda mandi is a celebration of life in --of all places- a Hyderabadi whorehouse. The characters are believable. YOu should watch his Susman, Om Puri has delivered a stand out performance as a weaver. The point is yes, ennakkum Tamizh enral moochu, but don't poke fun of SB. Stephen Speilberg is Hollywood'n Mani Rathnam. Probably Benegal can be compared with Woody Allen. The type of movies are different. Ultimately good movies are good & bad are bad. ( Of course crap pseudo art movies are there & lousy masala movies are there) I just wanted you to get SB bias out of your system.
Thonmai thotta nam paarambariyam ayyoji enru caricature pannuvathaal kadadhu ( shoes pottu, vetti madichu katti ,kudumi vecchu, that thai aadi naa Madarasinnu vechukattume. let us have a laugh. naamum Hindi karanai maadu ottaravan kaamippomille hai hai!)
- From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152)
on: Tue Apr 16 05:41:06 EDT 2002
I did enjoy Mandi particularly Nasirudin Shah s characterisation.Also his DD serial on the Indian History.Lot of hardwork.
Please understand that i am not trying to dismiss SB as another jerk.Even if i do i am fully aware that i shall be fooling myself.
I never said SB showed "Veshti kattiya madrasi".
But i am get really angry when people of stature exhibit their know-all attitude without caring to understand the basic issue ,without understanding the sentiments of the section of ethnic community they comment upon.
To glorify MR pulling down the whole tamil audience is unbecoming for a man of his stature.That Buddhu went one step further.SUNTV il Visu programme il persubavargalukkum evargalukkum enna vidyasam?With a mike presented are you free to air your biased,prejudiced,myopic views to gain a few claps.Poruppu vendam?
- From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.134)
on: Tue Apr 16 06:11:57 EDT 2002
"veshti katti vibhoodhi vachcha madarasi" hindi film-la mocked-at-comedian.
"kulla pottu arre..inba nambalki nimbal" appidinnu paesaravan thamizh film-la mocked-at-comedian.
for bollywood movies a southie is necessarily and sufficiently a "veshti kattiya..." and for kollywood movies a northie necessarily and sufficiently mean a seth who speak "nambalki nimbal".
hypocracy is there in both places. i would agree with your argument that for buddhadeb's case but could not for shyam's case (though i don't like much of his movies esp. the one "sooraj kaa sathwaan ghoda). such statement from budhdhadeb shows how enlightened is a RENOWNED FILM MAKER of INDIA.
I reiterate my arguement -- Shyam was blaming the audience as ignorants while budhdhadeb did not know any GREAT directors (art directors who could make sathwaan, aathwaan ghodaas that confuses even the soda butti jury) from thamizh filmdom.
Such people, irrespective of their woods (bollywood, kollywood or other woods of india) would definitely state such ELITE (in our paamara terminology, idiotic) statments. As paamarans we will just brush them aside.
I see these statements were out of such "elite" thinks and fortunately not out of "racial" thinks.
- From: vengayam (@ 203.200.84.66)
on: Tue Apr 16 06:45:40 EDT 2002
"To glorify MR pulling down the whole tamil audience is unbecoming for a man of his stature.That Buddhu went one step further.SUNTV il Visu programme il persubavargalukkum evargalukkum enna vidyasam?With a mike presented are you free to air your biased,prejudiced,myopic views to gain a few claps.Poruppu vendam?"
Come on do you mean that SB is a buddhu. As i had mentioned earlier it was one question asked by Benegal. By & large Tamil films do have the theateric , rhetoric in them. Of course I like that part in movies like V Kattabomman ,u don't seriously expect him to say mention about the good movies like uthiri pookkal, a kolangal,s n s manidhargal in his question. OISG you are simplyfying matters too much & taking offence where no insult was intended.
- From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152)
on: Tue Apr 16 08:35:29 EDT 2002
By Buddhu i meant Buddha Deb who made the other historic statement in his question to MR.
The insult might not be intended but a poor comprehension and lack of basic intelligence on the part of "makers of meaningful cinema"has indeed resulted in an insult.
What to do? Tamizhana konjam buhhiyudan porandhuttom..Avanglai mathiri asamanjama irunthirukkalam...Ethu melayo Mazhai peithar pola irukka mudiyala.
Vengayam please understand that my anger is not against specific individuals but against a group which refuses to understand the sensitivity and acheivements levels of our people.
- From: vengayam (@ 63.109.246.147)
on: Tue Apr 16 10:41:32 EDT 2002
I understand but my only plea is that do not include Shyam Benegal in that list.
- From: sarat (@ 128.192.181.155)
on: Tue Apr 16 12:24:48 EDT 2002
Tamizhana konjam buhhiyudan porandhuttom..Avanglai mathiri asamanjama irunthirukkalam...
OISG...tell me you dint really mean that?
- From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152)
on: Wed Apr 17 01:39:07 EDT 2002
Sarat
I still feel that the comments by SB and BDDG have racial overtones.When they can generalise and have an opinion on Tamils(audience) and Tamil cinema I too have a right to generalise on the Tamils intellectual superiority over northies.
"theeyinar sutta Punn ullarum -aarathey
Naavinal sutta Vadu"
It is my answer to all the "Salah Madrasi" i have heard and faced.
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