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Creativity of MSV

Topic started by RAJAN (@ proxy-117.iap.bryant.webtv.net) on Sat Jan 10 15:32:47 EST 1998.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Ragapriyan (@ 202.54.37.18) on: Fri Feb 19 22:53:14 EST 1999
  
  Sriram:
  Ragapravaham gives 3 versions of Gopika Vasantham.
  Which one are you referring to? Anyway, I got the
  idea that 'unnidaththil' uses the notes of NB
  with ri omitted.
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ ifmxlenx.na.informix.com) on: Mon Feb 22 15:47:51 EST 1999
  
  RP, yes that is the version I was referring to . It is merely Hindolam with a "Pa" or Natabhairavi without a "Ri".. Probably Kaatrukkenna veli from "AvarGaL" could be added to the list. Did you try playing "Sonnathu Nee thaana" ?
  
  Saketh, not at all. First of all B.Saranga does not have all the 7 notes whereas this song does. If you are interested, I can mail you the notes for the song.
  
  Pae,
  Y.Kambodhi and P.Kambodhi are Janyas of H.Kambhoji. Y goes like SRMPDS (I think) and SRGMPDNS (AV)
  P goes like SRGMPDS and SDPMGRS.
  This song has various tunes to it and the stanza I considered was the stanza where S.Govindarajan and TMS sing alternate lines.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ ifmxlenx.na.informix.com) on: Wed Feb 24 18:59:51 EST 1999
  
  Ragapiriyan,
  Your idea of this "tune signature" thread is awesome. But all other MD's like ARR, CRS, SMS, GR, RS should also be included. I can straightaway comment on certain facets of most MDs but would like to give all their compositions a ear again before I venture into this. The problem right now is lack of listening material. Most of my cassettes are back home in Bombay or Madras. Shashi , in an earlier posting had highlighted certain "properties" of MSV's tunes which was very much in line with my observation. Anyaayam, avar munthikkittaar.
  He has written about MSV's usage of sustaining notes and lengthy santhams. One good example, is "KaNNukku kulam ethu" which was a typical KD santhakkavhithai with an average of 3 words in a line. Note the tune, not how such a simple kavithai gets twisted around with lots of sangathis and bends and curves and becomes a classic.
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ ifmxlenx.na.informix.com) on: Wed Feb 24 19:00:58 EST 1999
  
  Typo ,"not" in the penultimate line should read "note".
  
  
• From: karthi (@ lab6.theatrium.net) on: Wed Feb 24 20:32:26 EST 1999
  
  I would like to change the topic of this thread! (SriramL can you smell something burning :-))?
  
  
• From: karthi (@ lab6.theatrium.net) on: Wed Feb 24 20:33:45 EST 1999
  
  Pinna Enna? You guys are only revealing my ignorance again and again and again :-), never mind just keep up the good work!
  
  
• From: Ragapriyan (@ 202.54.37.18) on: Sun Feb 28 22:07:25 EST 1999
  
  Karthi and Sriram:
  
  Yesterday, after many many years, I happened to
  listen to that famous flute piece of MSV which,
  if you recall the Ceylon Thamizh ChEvai plays in
  the morning in the pongum poom punal
  programme. I don't know whether this flute piece
  is a part of some MSV album! It is so beautiful.
  That led me to this posting.. Can we recall here
  some of the songs where MSV had some excellent
  flute usage? Let us include MSV-TKR songs too, of course.
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.150) on: Sun Feb 28 23:25:43 EST 1999
  
  That is from an album sans vocal - a 100% orchestration disk. An excellent one indeed. (Real bad i don't remember the name. The gramaphone record was often played in my high-school. The first piece had a `train-sound-like' number with a grand tune (something similar to the prelude to the song `Anthamanai parungal Azhagu')
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.156) on: Mon Mar 1 23:02:25 EST 1999
  
  I'm sorry, that album was not 100% non-vocal as it had lots of `la-la-la-lalla's' from chorus.
  
  
• From: Ragapriyan (@ 202.54.37.18) on: Tue Mar 2 03:58:01 EST 1999
  
  Eden: Thanks. If you can remember, can you give
  the name of that album?
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ ifmxlenx.na.informix.com) on: Thu Mar 4 17:34:00 EST 1999
  
  Ragapiriyan,
  Sorry for the delay.
  I am immediately reminded of "KaNNukku kulam ethu". The prelude piece is similar to the one in "Vaan megangaLe" from "Puthiya vaarpugaL". It is a nice piece which blends in with the pallavi superbly. In the charaNam and the interludes , the base flute is used and how ! When PS starts with the charaNam the base flute plays a counter melody which embellishes the song well. "Aarodum MaNNil" from Pazhani has a flute piece which more or less brings to the listener visions of a vast stretch of ploughed field and the rest of the paraphernalia. The most noteworthy piece is the one after the virutham "varappuyara neer uyarum"...etc ."Yamuna nathi enge" from "Gauravam" had a wonderful prelude with the flute piece positioned well. In the last two cases, I think the flute is followed by Santoor, good transition.
  
  
• From: raja (@ ws-209-201-91-35.icon.com) on: Thu Jun 17 09:21:55 EDT 1999
  
  Saw SBP interview on Sun TV (in India) recently. He was asked his personal choice of the most influential MD in TFM, he first mentioned MSV, IR and ARR and then placed MSV 10 steps ahead of other MDs in TFM.
  
  I do not want this to turn into a adithadi - I didnt see the complete program and want to know if any DFer could fill in the details.
  
  
• From: Mr.K (@ 206.139.13.152) on: Thu Jun 17 11:09:48 EDT 1999
  
  SPB has every right, knowledge, skill and maturity to make a statement, He means it.
  
  btw:This should make Mr.Srikant happy.
  he is one of the few HCf of MSV.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: SitaRam (@ portal.ameritech.com) on: Thu Jun 17 11:45:47 EDT 1999
  
  I would say KV Mahadevan, VKumar and IR were close second to MSV atleast.
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Thu Jun 17 13:50:23 EDT 1999
  
  MSV is indeed great. As we know he and IR are "vaada pOdaa" type friends and IR is also person who will acknowledge his statement. Infact I remember IR saying in an interview about MSV as follows:
  
  "aNNan seythu vachcha vazhiyil than naangaLellaam pOikkoNdu irukkirom. avar thaan nam thamizhth thirai isayai vadivamaiththu seerpadiththiyavar".
  
  But, personally I hold them as equals. (NO saNdais please :-))
  
  
• From: Vels (@ alcor.concordia.ca) on: Thu Jun 17 14:24:32 EDT 1999
  
  My first time attraction to MSV composition is after listening to the melody "Sollathan Ninaikiraen Sollathan Thudikkiraen, Vayirindum Solvadarkku Varthai Inri Thavikkiraen, ha ah...".
  
  Vels
  
  
• From: rameshb (@ stagfw.thehartford.com) on: Thu Jun 17 14:58:12 EDT 1999
  
  I would place IR couple of notches above MSV , for he is a more comprehensive musician than the latter. IR's compositions, especially the BGM of the song (or the interludes) portray situations in a more refined manner with a much better presentation. IR's orchestrational edge serves as a great impetus to his visionaries and he is not restrained by the melodic nature of ICM. Some of his compositions are so amazing that even with his chord-based approach , he has been able to produce excellent melodies like 'kOvil maNi Osai thanai kaettathaarO', 'seNthaazham poovil'. Even though MSV has produced innumerable number of melodies as compared to IR, his interludes sometime go off-beat, making the compositions kinda loosely woven. Needless to say , all are IMO. BTW, i think SPB himself is a poor musician (ie MD) for his pathetic attempt in 'thudikkum karangaL'.
  
  
• From: SitaRam (@ portal.ameritech.com) on: Thu Jun 17 15:59:36 EDT 1999
  
  rameshb, I also feel the same. In BGM, SPB should state that IR is atleast 100 times ahead of MSV and others. As you very rightly worded, IRs was not restrained by the high rigours of melody but found more satisfaction in exploring for the first time in a more experimental fashion the fascinating sounds that orchestration produced. SPB and many others disenchantment was that IR was not a singers composer but a musicians composer, while they hope that IR would turnaround his focus towards melody and not on mood.
  
  
• From: karthi (@ 1cust237.tnt1.rantoul.il.da.uu.net) on: Thu Jun 17 19:06:48 EDT 1999
  
  rameshb, you don't have to be a musician to appreciate/understand/criticize one. (ref: your statment 'SPB himself is a poor musician...'). BTW, we are no where near to SPB, or MSV or IR for that matter. But we do make comparisons and analysis and give out statements. Going by that, I feel, given his experience and musical sense, and being an intellect which he is, SPB's statement should obviously have more weightage than the rest of us.
  
  
• From: NOV (@ 202.184.134.8) on: Thu Jun 17 21:11:37 EDT 1999
  
  Give it a rest guys. Like each one of us, isn't SPB entitled to his own opinion?
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-51.il.us.ibm.net) on: Fri Jun 18 08:37:12 EDT 1999
  
  Look like SPB has earned some bad names from IR fans. Same SPB was taken into good books when he told great things about IR. But now things look different.
  Mr.RameshB has started to talk about IR orchestrational skills, I belive just BGM is not film music, tune is the heart of the song, that has to be good, MSV has given Millions of spectacular tunes, which are still heard and remembered now.
  RameshB - regarding BGM, HOW MUCH MSV you have heard.? I will give just one example from Idhayakani - "inbame", the counter points and brass section are simply genious.
  Have you heard the tune Yamuna nadhi inge from gauravam, just hear the voice overs as counter points sung by SPB. MSV just juggles with the notes.
  On a white paper, IR was exactly at the top for 10yrs , I would say his peak was from 1980-1990, then he started to decline. (Many will say no) - MSV has some great experience of about 30+yrs in film music,
  what spb says is perfectly valid.
  Most of the guys in the TFM page grew up hearning IR's music, so he looks great, I grew hearing both MSV/IR, so i will always say MSV is by far way ahead of Raja in Tune, percussion etc.
  
  You guys praise IR just by hearing his scores, (at times without even hearing it eg symphony)whereus Spb who was introduced by MSV, has sung quite number of songs for him has every right to say MSV is great.
  
  One gentle man says SPB is not a good MD, who cares. he is the greatest singer tfm has every produced.
  
  As NOV says, give a break, it is SPB's opinion --- it is valid.
  
  
• From: Mr.K (@ 206.139.13.152) on: Fri Jun 18 10:17:23 EDT 1999
  
  Srikant Sir Kaname
  , yes he is here.
  
  
  
• From: SitaRam (@ portal.ameritech.com) on: Fri Jun 18 13:12:04 EDT 1999
  
  Srikanth it is a pity that comparison of great people are not just done here, but to a more negative extent by the players themselves in the film industry. SPBs statements smacks off some innate prejudice regarding IR. Raja has given IR some of the best songs ever composed anywhere. SPB has forgotten the overall impact of IRs entry in the tamil film world. Because of IR singers like SPB and Yesudas could survive on a daily basis and songs poured in left right center and contributed to sustaining interest in TFM. IR singlehandedly challenged any other musical competition in Tamilnadu. (This forum has a beautifyl article written by Sathyvageeswaran on the topic of IR as the greatest and why.) SPB may not have been satisfied with melodies of IR, but it is IR who had atleast 50 times more enjoyable songs for SPB than what MSV or any other 100 composers put together could give SPB. i am not happy with SPBs statement, even though there is some truth in it, but to say MSV is 10 times ahead of anybody in the field, when IR has given 10 times more output than MSV is something i can't believe came from SPB himself. ungrateful and lacks a wider musical appreciation are what I say in SPB. He has also put IR in the same bracket with ARR and that is another added insult to genuine music lovers. it means that IRs entry 25 years in the field was a waste of time for Tamil Cinema and that something better should have happened. very unhappy with SPB and also your comments, Srikanth.
  
  
• From: Mr.k (@ 206.139.13.152) on: Fri Jun 18 13:43:27 EDT 1999
  
  So sitaram , you say KJY, SPB would have not been around if IR was not around.!LOL
  Too Much.
  SPB, KJY ARE ARE PEOPLE WITHOUT SKILL
  THEY GREW UP ONLY BECAUSE OF IR....
  After kamal, KB, MR Now spb join the list.
  
  You are wrong my friend, this might apply to mano, arul mozi and other chota gang.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

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