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Whatever happened to Illayaraja's symphony?

Topic started by Swaminathan N (@ infosys.inf.com) on Wed May 14 15:38:06 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Layman (@ 206.175.176.2) on: Wed Nov 22 18:41:52 EST 2000
  
  It is not just the creativity or technique that matters when one considers an MD to be great. He has to contribute to the betterment of the culture of the land. Right, Trend?
  
  Gimme a break!!! Keep adding as many parameters as you want to put down IR. If that is not obvious to anyone reading your posts, he has his head in the sand.
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Thu Nov 23 03:35:45 EST 2000
  
  If people are looking at social revolution through film music, then I'm afraid no one can qualify from among Indian film musicians (as far as I know). We have not produced a Jimi Hendrix or a Bob Dylan, or a Pink Floyd, whose music brought about a visible change in lifestyle, attitude and thought process of entire generations; who became icons of change and protest. Similarly, the blues musicians and people like Bob Marley were legends to the black people and living symbols of how the black man/woman could succeed in a racially divided world. Why, even the rap and hip-hop guys whose music is dismissed as crap are representative of the African American culture of the 90s. To that end, all of them have made great contributions to American popular culture.
  But we are just not oriented that way, neither are our films. Our yardstick of contribution to culture relies on the "enjoyability" factor, which has been the hallmark of all our film music composers. Of course, there have been people like NSK and Pattukkottai whose songs carried social messages, but how far were they successful?
  Ilayaraja's music hasn't strayed much from the romantic duet variety, but his contribution has been invaluable as far as exploring the frontiers of music is concerned.
  
  
• From: eden (@ 61.1.250.185) on: Thu Nov 23 04:13:52 EST 2000
  
  Some of the cultural changes that IR's music brought about in TN:
  
  Positive:
  1. pucca villagers made to talk about `fusion' `classical' etc. and become addicts to these forms of music & pucca city_bred forced to enjoy, even become addicts to grAmiya music
  2. Film music regularly played in public transports & tea shops (I don't subscribe this to technology, since this is definitely not happening so much in other parts of the country)
  3. People no longer snob `I listen to only Rafi, Latha, ABBA, BoneyM etc.' but take pride in listening to TFM.
  4. People made to enjoy preludes & interludes specifically which were by large uncared for till his arrival.
  5. Simpletons (like me and many of my friends) made to crave for pure instrumentals which hitherto belonged to the elite.
  6. Commoners (not the filmfolk) discuss about the BGM and care about it, a big (qualitative) improvement in appreciation of art as a whole
  
  Negative:
  1. People no longer bother about buying `cinema pAttu pushthagam'
  2. A measure of degeneration in lyrical content (supported greatly by GA)
  3. Contributing to a measure of perversion by promoting the `mukkal-munagals' -esp. on the impressible youth...
  
  
• From: e (@ 61.1.250.185) on: Thu Nov 23 04:17:01 EST 2000
  
  Sorry, typo:-(
  `by large' (pt 4) should read `by and large'
  
  
• From: Venkatesh (@ 206.49.110.156) on: Thu Nov 23 07:09:53 EST 2000
  
  Reg. the authenticity of the Symphony, I've the following link for you.
  
  http://www.rpofilmmusic.com/credits.html
  
  Please see the section - 'Acclaimed collaborations with international artists'. Ilayaraaja's name is mentioned.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 63.202.172.175) on: Fri Nov 24 10:57:48 EST 2000
  
  Sorry..been busy.Here's what britannica.com says,
  "behaviour peculiar to Homo sapiens, together with material objects used as an integral part of this behaviour. Thus, culture includes language, ideas, beliefs, customs, codes, institutions, tools, techniques, works of art, rituals, and ceremonies, among other elements."
  
  In other words 'macro-behavior' can be used synonomously with culture.That, film and film music, affects the 'macro-behavior should be obvious.
  Already, people have listed the contribution of IR in this area viz. namely WCM, folk songs etc. Eden did a very good job in getting to analyse point-by-point and Swamiji mentioned the specifics.
  I also think IR tried to take classical music to the masses or tried to show that classical music is part of our culture (re-rooted it) by tuning lots of folksy songs in carnatic rAgams. Similarly, his interest in WCM stems from a really needed hole in indian classical music - the lack of polyphonic sounds. (Note, I am not saying ICM is bad, but polyphony would surely enrich it). This is not an easy job, it might take many generations to accomplish this fully. (I have a feeling that the WCM rich prelude/interlude is rapidly being undone. Basically we are not building on the trend of integrating WCM into our musical repertoire. For eg. I dont see bass scores in Deva's music. Somebody correct me if I am wrong).
  Inspite of the focus on WCM, IR, kept/preserved the 'indianness' in the purity of the tunes.
  cram mentions that his music is of the 'romantic duet variety'. I am not so sure. IR is also noted for some 'poignant music'. Though the lack of good lyricist like kannadhAsan has hampered his songs, I still think there were many songs with simple lyrics that had 'depth' and 'emotions'. (You could say that melody tried to makeup for the lyrics).
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 63.202.172.175) on: Fri Nov 24 11:36:48 EST 2000
  
  Just listening to music now while I reading the 1001th spec from Sun..cant concentrate on the reading - the song- theyviiga rAgam from ullAsa paravaigal. The songs switches from WCM to folksy, back and forth with a bass/guitar score/table backing the vocals. The lyrics aptly describes the song.
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Sat Nov 25 06:07:22 EST 2000
  
  kiru,
  nice write-up.
  sure IR has composed many songs that do not belong to "romantic duet" country (for instance, the songs that talk about familial love, friendship, rivalry, courage, etc). but if you were to list his greatest songs, i'm sure 85 % would turn out to be love songs. of course, one cannot blame him because it's the director or the plot that dictate the kind of song that figures in a film.
  that leads to my biggest quarrel with IR's genius: why hasn't he given us more of non-film stuff that departs from the trite?
  
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.144.64.4) on: Sun Nov 26 22:28:16 EST 2000
  
  ada pOnga cram, avar compose paNNina oru symphony release paNNavE ivLO kashtam:-))
  
  
• From: G. Kuppusamy (@ 156.153.255.250) on: Mon Nov 27 02:19:09 EST 2000
  
  cram,
  
  agreed. i too have similar 'quarrel' about very less contribution in non-film albums sector by IR. But v've forgotten one thing. he came and established himself in the film music which hitherto had MDs only doing music for cinemas and very rarely doing non-film albums. if they do so only devotional. Such was the trend prevailed those times. in those times there was just one 'ceylon' manoharan in the entire tamil field who gave pop albums (a deviation from film albums) nobody else tried. IRs HTNI, NBW were not received well by people that time who were not used to buy non-film, non-devotional musical stuffs. i wud say the advent of cable tv in india has brought the change in present generation otherwise i doubt ARR's non-film albums(which have a ready welcome nowadays) also wud have fatal response.
  
  but now i think IR can definitely count on us in non-film albums. but sad, as rightly pointed out by eden, there is such a difficulty in the release of his symphony..
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Mon Nov 27 12:29:55 EST 2000
  
  Eden's list about cultural changes was interesting.Analyzing the cultural aspects after IR stopped having a strong influence on TFM,
  Positives-
  1.The college-going students started discussing about ARR's music.I could hear them blasting Tamil music in their cars.Previously,their speakers were used to only English music.The speakers not only played songs like "Mustafa" and "Arabic kadaloram" but also "porale ponnuthaiye" and "kannalaane".
  2.Tamil Film Music were also played in shopping malls too where serious shoppers and idle chatters could listen.
  3.People no longer claimed we have only one good MD in Tamil.
  4.People started analyzing minute aspects of music too like the beat,sound etc.A few people went to greater heights to do cross-matching. Discussion about preludes and interludes became more common.
  5.Even lesser Simpletons(like me and my friends with most of them with lesser music knowledge)started exploring into TFM and different genres of music and dissected music to a great detail.
  6.The Music that could match technology growth.Finally,one MD decided TFM fans deserved music with better clarity and effects.CDs became popular.If I remember correctly,it was during this period,theaters started getting equipped with better technology as to the feel the real sound.
  7.Lyrical content improved and perversions were greatly reduced.
  8.People could find their "Pattu pusthagam" free along with their CD.
  
  Negatives
  1.BGM degenerated.
  2.A few people's God couldn't come to grips with the majority of people's expectations.
  
  One point to note is though ARR is contributing a lot the others are doing a mediocre, if not a bad, job.
  
  These changes seem to have a better "cultural" impact IMHO.
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Mon Nov 27 12:33:04 EST 2000
  
  By others I mean SAR,Deva and others.IR is not in this list b'cos anyday he will do a good job IMO.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 207.43.195.202) on: Mon Nov 27 12:58:05 EST 2000
  
  Trend:
  
  Since you started the obvious bait with "better cultural impact" and making a comparison, let me add a few points to your post.
  
  A. Your point No. 4 is invalid. The awareness was already created by MSV and IR and only their (interludes/preludes) deficiencies in later day creations became better analyzed.
  
  B. To some extent it has gone to the other extreme. From music being made 'such that even simpletons could appreciate', it has become such that 'it is made ONLY for simpletons'. SAR, Deva being classic examples and to some extent ARR too.
  
  C. You have got to be kidding about No.7! You are so much out of whack on this, that I am not prepared to discuss this any further.
  
  Let me now add to your list of negatives.
  
  3. A cultural and moral degeneration - blatant copying, lifting, inspiration - in the name of "public demand" became a very acceptable standard. Deva, ARR, SAR....I rest my case.
  
  4. Thamizh in lyrics and PRONUNCIATION died!
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: prakash (@ 62.7.68.250) on: Mon Nov 27 13:25:17 EST 2000
  
  trend,
  i was a college student when raaja wsa,well,raja.believe me ,we did discuss film music.with him churning out hits after hits EVERY WEEK,you cannot but discuss film music in 80's and 90's.not like present when you ahve to wait for a familiar sounding album from ARR once in 3 months:-)
  shopping malls-well,more of them have sprung up in recent times.and naturally,when they play the current craze,it is bound to be an arr no.i cant refuse to accept the fact that he is the most popular md now.
  i think raajas music definitely deserved better technology.even you cannot refuse this fact.but please remember,for everyone of us abroad with a fancy sound system ,there are hundrds back home who are happy with a basic tape system.
  it was during raajas period when tapes became really cheap.in fact,i remamber when kovaithambi fell out with ir ,he brought in LP from bombay and the cassettes were sold for -10 rs!
  in ramannathan period,people had access to songs only thru radio and films.in MSV's period came the next step of records.In raajas period came tape revolution and,naturally cd had to move in.to claim that arr was the sole reason for popularizing cd's-well if you believe that you will believe anything.it had to happen-and when it happened,ARR was there.his recording is definitely any day better than IR,i agree.
  but i also remember thinking that IR's recording was so much better than MSV's recording.
  
  

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