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Ilayaraja copy adiththa paadalgal

Topic started by Rajaraman (@ 192.122.136.148) on Sat Jul 26 05:27:10 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Viswa (@ webgate5.mot.com) on: Tue Jun 16 00:31:39 EDT 1998
  
  SSK Sir, Geetha :
  I mentioned the example of "AmmAvenRazhaikkAdha" and "Janani, Janani" in the perspective of some extensive reuse made by IR around that period (early 1992), especially in the backdrop of the other two songs that I mentioned (which resembled Mohd. Rafi numbers). Perhaps, in the case of "AmmA..." and "Janani", IR composed them in a similar ragam because the underlying theme was somewhat similar. Of course, I would'nt cite them as a case of copying. They were songs, where one merely reminded us (me) of the other.
  
  SSK Sir, I agree that there have been many cases of the songs of a particular period sounding similar. In fact, the songs of Chinna Thambi have had an influence on quite a few songs in that period (perhaps on the directors' insistence too !)
  
  As for the similarity in the opening lines of "Kuyilu kuppam" and "ThooLiyilE" , I had'nt noticed it earlier, but after you mentioned it yesterday, I also see that there is a similarity in the two songs, which came around the same period. In fact, there is another song in Chinna Thambi, "Uchan thalai..." (I hope the words are correct !), which resembled a song in PANdi thuRai (also *ing Prabhu, Khushboo).
  
  Geetha, thanks a lot for the list of songs in Kalyani. In fact, I can see the similarity in the songs "KalaivANiyE" and "VandhAL MahalakshmiyE" right away.
  
  
• From: Viswa (@ webgate5.mot.com) on: Tue Jun 16 00:40:31 EDT 1998
  
  Veera, I stand corrected. I think both "Guide" and "Kala Bazar" were Dev Anand movies, with music by S. D. Burman - hence the mix up ! By the way, have you heard the IR songs that I mentioned ? If so, do you feel the same as I do ?
  
  
• From: mfm (@ proxyf8.cyberway.com.sg) on: Wed Jun 17 02:28:38 EDT 1998
  
  Rajesh is absolutely correct that IR himself explained about those two songs on how he composed them. I did mention this a couple of times in DF. Again, I would like to stress that no other MD like IR has confessed that MDs cheat by repeating or copying tunes. He is so humble that he once mentioned that he watches those movies for which MSV was MD right on the day of release sitting in the first row of the theatre. He added that he had the influence of MSV in his early period as MD. He still respects MSV as senior and he has close contacts with MSV and infact, IR got MSV to work with him when things were not going good for MSV. In terms of being polite and humble, he is great and should not be compared with ARR who do not even want to mention about the experience with IR from who he would have learnt the definition of film MD for a DECADE.
  
  IMHO, if ARR openly acknowledges his experience he had with IR and what he learnt from him, the IR Fans Vs ARR Fans battle field will not exist in this forum. Just presenting a gold ring to IR will not do any justice. Even the giant IR has so openly mentioned many times that he respects MSV a lot. Why not ARR follow the same path? ARR's comments like (1) he does not listen to any present/past MDs songs, (2) he works so hard for every single bit of song,(3) he is very original etc., creates a lot of 'errichhal' for not only IR fans but in general to all TFM fans. This is something that may spoil the 100% acknowldegement & support of his talent.
  
  I always see that 'Darling Darling' in Priya is mentioned as a copied song and IR is the father of copying western music. From what I know about this song is, Panchu Arunachalam has told in couple of speeches that he wanted IR to do a ultra modern(then) song like the one from BoneyM. Ofcourse, IR set the example of how effortlessly he could change a western song to the likes of locals. Unlike other MDs who put the blame on others for copying, IR never claimed that he was forced by the producer or director to copy or it was an unexpected coincidence. He has always accepted that one tune can be changed to many and it all depends on the talent of the MD and the one who cheat most is the most successfull MD. There was once an interview in Kungumam magazine titled 'Isai enbadhu emartru velai' by IR.
  
  PS: I did not imagine all these to support IR, these are either I have read from IR's interview in magazines or interviews in TV or speeches in film related function or speeches during light music program by IR.
  
  panivanbudan,
  mfm
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Wed Jun 17 10:16:23 EDT 1998
  
  Did you guys see the programme where IR demonstrated how he used the old song "Vaan Meethile intha thaen vanthu paayuthe" and created the very popular "Vaa Vennila unnai thaane vaanam theduthe", with MSV, I believe? In the film Mella Thiranthathu kathavu, he and MSV corraborated for the first time, I think and if you hear the two songs, you will see the similarity, but he pubicly admitted it. I am a great fan of ARR too, but I don't appreciate his interviews where he claims not to hear other's music. All music directors require inspiration and ARR is no execption.
  IRR always acknowledged
  *Mozart,
  *Bach,
  *Beethoven.....
  So should ARR, but in this case;
  *Deep Forest(Thillana Thillana sample),
  *Ace of Base(Telephone Manipol beat), *Madonna(Kuluvaayile bassline)
  
  Of course, ARR has come up with many excellent and I believe original pieces of music, which is why he has the standing he has round the world. When IR slipped, ARR brought fresh sound to Tamil Music and also created a new set of standards for TFM, many of you commended Vidhyasaagar's Uyiodu Uyiraaga, which had a total ARR Vaasanai to it(Music wise, especially that Nadhi ondu valarum song, which was in Chakravaham ragam, used in a very similar fashion to Vidukathaye Intha vaalkai in Muthu, Playboy joku....Irunthu enna payan, which was remeniscent of Urvasi, from Kadhalan).
  
  Some of IR's new albums are really awful, IMHO, my musical friends and I go out and but them to see if we can get a good song, but very few are living up to our expectations. Poonthottam had a song which was very hyped up - Meetathe Oru Veenai, sung by HariHaran, and it is said to have taken him 14 hours to get it right, the song lacks the richness for say one of IR's older songs, e.g. Chinna Kannan Azlaikiraan, in the same Reethigowla ragam.....I couldn't see where the 14 hours came from, apart from the fact that the thalam is rather tough.
  
  As for IR's copying, he didn't really copy very much, but neither did ARR(of course ARR takes his time to make music and often comes up with one great song and many mediocre ones - Hai Rama in Rangeela was the best(how many other Panthuvarali's have you heard that compare to this song?), Kannodu in Jeans, Malargale in Lovebirds, Anjali in Duet, Uyirum Neeye in Pavithra, Sakiye Neethaan Thunaiye in Andhimantharai, Vennilave in Minsara Kanavu and the list goes on.....I can't see where these are copied from. As is Deva's Nalam Nalam Ariya Aaval from Kadhal Kottai - Is this copied? If not, then it is a great work from a musician with a bad reputation. Anyway, I'm digressing now.....There's another thread this should go into.
  
  
• From: Krishna (@ mailserver01.sb.com) on: Wed Jun 17 18:39:36 EDT 1998
  
  IR copied "Ottam Konda Raasave" in Thirupurasundari (1978) from ARR's "VeeraPandi Kottaiyele" in Thiruda Thiruda (1993) ....or Is it the other way around?
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.27.248) on: Wed Jun 17 19:12:14 EDT 1998
  
  geetha,
  
  malargale from love birds has a drum beat loop in it which comes abruptly in the song .if u listen closely it is similiar to the initial drum beat pattern in 'akkadaanu naanga' from indian and both of them have been lifted from paul young's 'love of common people'.
  
  geetha if u are frustrated with IR's latest tamil compositions listen to guru and yaathramozhi both mallu albums for a change.i think 'ponveyilil' from yaathramozhi is in www.mail-bag.com .
  it is as melodious as early 80's raja song but at the same time has a freshness to it that tells u the song is a recent one.simply superb!
  
  iam not a completely biased raja fan.like u even i admit that i have been disappointed with some of his latest tamil songs but these 2 albums are just a class above everything.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.27.248) on: Thu Jun 18 00:41:50 EDT 1998
  
  also RV,
  by stretching the syllable in each of the word in maanguyile poonguyile i do not change the raaga.I agree the beat or the rhythm becomes similiar to raathiriyil poothirukkum but the raaga and the tunes of the two songs are still miles apart.i think IR might have mentioned only the similiarity in the beat pattern.
  
  
• From: Sankaran (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Thu Jun 18 08:18:03 EDT 1998
  
  Geetha,
  I differ with you on your views on the song "Meettaadha Oru veenai...".As far as I know,IR has composed three songs in reethigowla,"Chinna Kannan","Thalayai Kuniyum thaamarayae" and this one from Poonthottam.The first song was an absolutely pure classical,very simple(IR uses the same flute bit in more than 1 place) and had minimum orchestration(bass guitar,flute,santoor,tabla etc.,;no violin or keyboard).The second one was a typical IR composition of that period with a lot of violin bits thrown in.The third one has a quite complicated rhythm and loops.The interludes stand out for their ingenuity in fusion music.I don't think there could be a better example of such a pure raga being presented with that kind of non-classical setting.I feel these songs belong to separate genres and as such are best in their times.
  However,it is still difficult to believe Hariharan took 14 hrs. for that song.I am more interested with the female playback(Mahalakshmi) who has sung it effortlessly.
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Thu Jun 18 12:41:48 EDT 1998
  
  Shankaran: I agree about the 14 hour Hariharan thing, it's strange that they are undermining his talents like that. The feamle vocalist was excellent as well. You are right that these songs belong to defferent eras and that Meetathai has a great rhythmic structure. Maybe I'll appreciate this piece more after I give it more listening time. I must say, Thalaiye Kuniyum is a brilliant piece, which shows off the nuacences of the raga wonderfully. By the way, have you heard the Carnatic piece Guruvaayoor Appane(sung by TN Seshagopalan or Sudha Raghunathan) or Thathvamariya Tharama(composed by Pabanasam Sivam) It's really great.
  
  Vijey: As I'd mentioned, he's doing a great job in the Malayalam side, but not in Tamil. I started to watch the movie with the song Alli Sundharavalli....That had great songs, 'Alli' in particular was a great Charukesi?! by Arunmozli. Hope he provides more good stuff for his own people...and fans....
  
  
• From: Veera Akkoor (@ 1cust32.tnt2.det1.da.uu.net) on: Thu Jun 18 21:08:02 EDT 1998
  
  In Guru the song "Guru charanam" is a beauty. Yes I heard some thing more about the Hariharan song that apart from taking 14 hrs. IR himself has told that the song will live in people's memory till music lives in this earth. I still rate "Chinna Kannan" "Thalaiyai kuniyum" as classics but as you said I did listen to Tatvam ariya tharama sung by Madurai Mani. I am sure IR has proved that he can outsine everyone even in malayalam field.
  
  

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