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Ilayaraja copy adiththa paadalgal

Topic started by Rajaraman (@ 192.122.136.148) on Sat Jul 26 05:27:10 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Madhan, Goa. (@ 202.41.117.63) on: Mon Mar 8 11:29:16 EST 1999
  
  Dear Geetha,
  
  Pray tell all of us, as to how "DArRLING ,DARLING" was an out and out plagiarised version of Sunny from Boney M ? I have listened to Sunny - yes, the signature beginning ,i.e., pallavi of Darling is the same as Sunny, but the interludes and the charanams are no way similar to SUNNY - so , going by your version of PLAGIARISM, how can this song be categorised as a plagiarised one ?!
  
  
• From: Karthik (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Mon Mar 8 11:43:29 EST 1999
  
  That was really cool, objective Geetha. Now all you have to do is to go to IR's new albums thread and praise Alaimeedhu a little ...
  
  I am not a flame thrower, Ravi, but it really really hurts me when people start meting this kind of treatment out to IR.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ s04.austin.ibm.com) on: Mon Mar 8 11:55:20 EST 1999
  
  Karthik:
  I shock myself by agreeing with you ;-)
  
  Geetha:
  Pardon me for this, but I think you are speaking with half-facts. Has IR really, claimed (in writing or atleast verbally to a magazine/newspaper/someone-you-know-personally-who-could-also-be-drummer-sivamani) that "Darling, Darling" was his own original composition ? A person like IR who composes songs and music for over 750 movies would not have to depend on BoneyM (who probably have a max. of a dozen albums to their name). Hey, if you are still wondering why IR fans throw muck at you, take a long good look at yourself. You approach IR with natural bias, just as you do with ARR.
  
  Chandy:
  Ever seen a dictionary before ?
  
  Guys:
  My own corrollary from Geetha's post. IR "copied" one full song from BoneyM. ARR has never copied any song fully, all his songs have only been partially copied.
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Mon Mar 8 12:13:09 EST 1999
  
  I think I mentioned 2 songs of IR.....In fact, they were mentioned in this very thread....
  
  The other thing is that I would like for people not to 'personally attack' me for my statements....I don't have a problem with people disagreeing wiht me....
  
  Srinath: He doesn't have to say that it's his own, you people in this forum will make it sound like it is, even if it isn't.....
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Mon Mar 8 12:17:40 EST 1999
  
  Thanks Chandy.
  
  I think I mentioned 2 songs of IR.....In fact, they were mentioned in this very thread....
  
  The other thing is that I would like for people not to 'personally attack' me for my statements....I don't have a problem with people disagreeing wiht me....
  
  Srinath: He doesn't have to say that it's his own, you people in this forum will make it sound like it is, even if it isn't.....Please don't keep bringing Sivamani into this. I didn't spend my time asking him what IR copied and what he didn't... I don't need to take a 'long good look at myself'.... I know I look great:)
  
  Karthik: I am one that will praise when deserved and critisize when necessary! Alaimeedhu was a great number, where IR has layered with Bass....I had to commend him on that.... Lets face it, it seems to be unanimously agreed here that it is one of his best in the last few years.....
  
  I think I put my disclaimer about IR's numerous numbers....I need not explain further....
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Mon Mar 8 12:19:17 EST 1999
  
  Madhan: Take a look at the Symphony thread.....The news is not good.....
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Mon Mar 8 12:22:22 EST 1999
  
  Srinath: Please don't PATRONISE Chandy.....It's not a nice thing to do....
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Mon Mar 8 12:27:12 EST 1999
  
  Srinath: Please don't PATRONISE Chandy.....It's not a nice thing to do.... My explanation stemmed from the fact that Shankar also patronised Diwakar(who was very objective, I feel) about not knowing the meaning of those words.....
  
  Karthik: When you do such things on a 100% worse level to ARR, we are expected to keep quiet? hhhmmmm, I sense double standards here.
  
  Srinath/Karthik: Please also listen to the songs form the 'old' film Kalyanam Pannadha Bramachaari, you'll find some excellent songs, which are an example of what I listen to in my spare time. Perhaps, you will understand my 'objectivity' then....
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Mon Mar 8 13:06:04 EST 1999
  
  Srinath: "Guys: My own corrollary from Geetha's post. IR "copied" one full song from BoneyM. ARR has never copied any song fully, all his songs have only been partially copied."
  
  In comment to your statement, which is worse? Plagurising or being inspired? Which is worse, buying loops(available to anyone and it's up to the individual what he does with it) or copying a whole song? Is it fair to say that 'All ARR's songs are partially copied'? I think it's time for you to check the grammer of that statement for truthfullness;)
  
  Karthik: Have you noticed, one IR song, Alaimeedhu out of the many he has released recently?
  
  
• From: chandy (@ 209.125.83.228) on: Mon Mar 8 15:04:05 EST 1999
  
  Srinath : Thanks for your comment - I'd certainly look up a dictionary. But you are the one who seem to be in need for a crash course on politeness and communication!!!
  
  I liked what geetha said. She had put her point in a very logical way. I have every right to commend her... You also have every right to disagree with her, but why single her out, quote her from other threads, personalise the issue and make a mockery of the very purpose of these discussions?
  
  Look, I am no IR basher or a blind-ARR-devotee. It just pains me when the fans go overboard in their efforts to idolise someone at the cost of demeaning others.
  
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ s04.austin.ibm.com) on: Mon Mar 8 15:48:38 EST 1999
  
  Chandy:
  Sorry to disappoint you...but I am a self-avowed "impolitist" :-) For further clarification, you can look up the "Politeness and this Forum..." thread !
  
  As for your praise of Geetha's take on plagiarism and copying, while she was right about the technical interpretation, I think she applied it with favour.
  
  Geetha:
  Yes, that was a cheap shot about Sivamani. But under the circumstances, I was playing fair and square. Geetha, it is good to see critiques on any great performer. But I have earlier mentioned that your statements cannot be explicitly seen as bipartisan. You do have a prominent bias towards ARR. I openly declare that I do not like ARR's kind of music and also take the trouble to articulate why. But you claim to like both styles even as you end up finding fault with IR and only praise for ARR. I cannot pressurize you to admit anything. But believe me when I say that I cannot think of you as anything other than an ARR fan (OK ! a talented and knowledgeable ARR fan :-)) And this impression is purely gained from your posts in this forum. If you are wondering what posts make me feel this way...
  
  Srinath: He doesn't have to say that it's his own, you people in this forum will make it sound like it is, even if it isn't.....
  
  We people ? (wide eyed, and wondering innocently :)) I am me, myself. One. Singular. And then your statement becomes false.
  
  As for the veracity of my corollary...IR did it once, and I am sure only because of external factors, for he is a fountainhead himself and would be the last to look elsewhere for manna - atleast upto 1993, when I last patronized him. ARR has made partial copying his brand of music. We all have different standards in life. Mine is better symbolized by a person like IR and infact approaches the anti-thesis of a person like ARR. So there ! :-)
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.26.62) on: Mon Mar 8 18:13:29 EST 1999
  
  i would also like to bring to the fact that when people comment on IR they forget that he has composed over 4000+ songs, out of which perhaps 3-4 might have been 'copies' arguably. whereas our ARR has not even done 50 albums and already needs a lot of 'inspiration' for his work. so just digging out one or two songs of IR composed 20 years ago and saying that this or that was copied seems ridiculous to me. u can all go to IR copy aditha paadalgal thread and se for yourself. except for perhaps 'kanavu kaanum' song(that too iam not sure about anupallavi) none of the other songs are blatant copies. and even this song, IR has not definitely or wantedly copied this song.
  
  why to choose this song of all to copy? certainly uncharacteristic of him. IR's style is MAINLY folk-classical(carnatic) and that itself rules out any western or pop influence. as for the 15-25% of his songs that might be WC based his style might have been influenced by Bach. there is noo question of any copying here too.
  
  some of the flase claims that have been made so far:
  
  1. diana diana copied from oru mani adithaal- absolutely ridiculous, compare it note by note, no similiarity.even if there is an iota of similiarity it ends in the pallavi.
  
  2. pootukal potaalum copied from the 'sound of music song'-raindrops and roses...
  - again only the rhythm is similiar, the tunes are entirely different. IR has his own great orchestration in that song.
  
  3. keladi kanmani from so gaya yeh jahaan in tezaab. irrespective of the arguments on the chronological precedence, the two songs stand apart in terms of tune.
  
  geetha, we the IR fans are not blind. go to IR copy aditha paadalgal thread, even i have made some contributions in the past.(although these songs are not blatant copies). by diggint out a song or two, what are u trying to prove? IR is definitely no god. he might get an inspiration even from the sound of beetles creeching in his room, and might end up composing a classic. no one is devoid of inspiration.
  
  how are we so sure that beethoven or mozart have not had any inspiration?
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 207.43.195.201) on: Mon Mar 8 18:29:01 EST 1999
  
  Srinath,
  
  This is totally aside from this discussion. Don't you ever check your #@%$!ing e-mail? Sorry for the impatience.
  
  
  
  
• From: Madhan,Goa (@ 202.41.117.63) on: Mon Mar 8 23:00:19 EST 1999
  
  Geetha,
  
  "Take a look at the SYMPHONY thread --the news is not that good " - well, well, well !! Now, you are asking for trouble, aren't you ?
  
  I asked your good musical self to explain the basis behind the claim of Raja having plagiarised the entire song Sunny from Boney M, and you end up asking me to see some other thread -
  
  Can I call it " IMPOLITENESS TAKEN TO THE SUBTLEST HEIGHTS AND EXTREMES " or should I say " BLATANT CONSPICOUS INABILITY TO SUBSTANTIATE ONE'S CLAIMS "-
  
  my, my, did I notice a strong condescending tone in your language ?! or am I having an illusion ?! IS this the price I have to pay for a self-set standard of discipline and decorum ?
  
  Still you have not answered my question - instead, you have decided to throw more muck around .
  
  
• From: Shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Tue Mar 9 03:16:18 EST 1999
  
  Geetha,
  please give a good perusal to the "old postings" .I had quoted why those 2 songs "darling darling " and kanavu kANum " were "cut-&-pasted" .
  
  I'll repeat. Priya was the first movie to be recorded in stereophonic sys. So the director had forced raja to use this (sunny) song. It's not a statement from a HCIRFanatic (me that is) ,but from SPB in his interview in kumudam (the question posed was "what's ur opinion about MDs copying from famous albums. Even IR and ARR have done that before" teh answer he gave was "Please don't call a great composer like IR a copycat. He was sometimes forced to do that by producers/directors " and the example he quoted were the above songs.)
  
  If u have noticed , he never let any statement about ARR being called a copycat :-))
  
  A srinath /raj or shankar can be a HCIRFanatic. do u think spb is ?????
  
  Also, don't try to defend arr by saying he hasn't copied a song fully.
  
  that shows he knows his weakness.If he copies a full song ,the way deva does , every song of his will be scrutinised and people will "hee...heee" at him. He does it methodically. cutting and pasting from various sources.
  
  

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