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DETORIATION OF TFM

Topic started by SATHYIYAVAGEESWARAN (@ client-151-200-127-194.bellatlantic.net) on Wed Jan 21 01:09:36 EST 1998.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.133) on: Wed Mar 3 23:18:10 EST 1999
  
  One of the reasons for songs lacking in musical quality nowadays is the influence of sat TV on people! Viewers bother MORE about the picturisation of the song rather than how it SOUNDS. I can see the panasonic music systems collecting dust in 75% of the homes (could be another reason why the cassette sales has come down overall)while people sit trasfixed to SUN TV, Raj TV and Vijay TV.
  
  For the same reason, whichever songs are promoted by Sun, Raj and Vijay are instant hits (whether the film does well in the Box office or not; NNer had much patronage by Sun TV)
  
  Compare these with such popular nos. of eighties like `Putham puthukkalai' or `Rasave onna Nambi' which never had visuals (edited off by BR) and then one can understand the lack of musical quality today. With the advent of sat TV and directors like MR, visuals play more role on popularity of songs than the music itself.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ daecfp01.sprint.com) on: Wed Dec 1 20:18:31 EST 1999
  
  eden: Good Point.
  Chandy: enakku VIP songs romba pidikkum. Do you still think there are Hindi originals for those?
  Udhaya: Is the curve pointing downward or upward or is it y = c?
  
  ellaarum vaanga pEsalaam!!!
  
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ vdslppp102.sttl.uswest.net) on: Wed Dec 1 21:54:07 EST 1999
  
  Raja sir, Udhaya and others
  
  What is song quality ?, Define it.
  What are the scales or factors that determine
  a song is good or bad,
  Does commercial value adds to the quality of the song,
  Does MD have 100% share in songs hit or failure,
  Does the song lyric plays a role in the process?
  
  We need to find the answers to these questions
  
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 216.32.18.74) on: Thu Dec 2 12:37:04 EST 1999
  
  K A A N A V I L L A I
  
  Rajag, Udhaya! and others
  
  
• From: close bold (@ 216.32.18.74) on: Thu Dec 2 12:37:32 EST 1999
  
  
  
  
• From: rameshb (@ hartfordcache1.thehartford.com) on: Thu Dec 2 16:30:44 EST 1999
  
  Closing Worked!
  
  
  
• From: < font face="MS Serif" color="red">rameshb (@ hartfordcache1.thehartford.com) on: Thu Dec 2 16:32:57 EST 1999
  
  
  Quality of a song is not all that easy to define. Most of the old songs were thematic with very rich lyrical content . The tune and rhythm had to adore the song to add enduring power to it. IMO, a good song should have both of these characteristics to stay in the minds of listeners. Due to the diverging tastes of people, there is not a simple method to measure which songs are of good quality and which ones are not. Also, it would be unfair to the listeners , if a MD chooses to strictly stay within the structures of ICM and come up with a score to claim it as a high quality composition. I don't mean here that a song which purely follows a raga structure (in a kirthana style) would be unbearable by the listener. The point here is, in the field of light music , quality is relative to the success of the MD in making his composition deep in to the minds of people. A MD has to have an 'attitude' in generating a mood on the listener as he listens to the song. Needless to say MSV, IR and now ARR , all have been blessed with this 'attitudinal' approach and they have (been proving) proved it so far. During the days of MSV and his peers lyrics played an important role in a song as most of the movie situations and the ongoing vogue demanded it. MSV(MSV-TKR) takes a unique place amongst all other MDs till date as he has haunted the minds of listeners virtually with every song he composed until late 70s . I dare to say those songs will be long remembered even thru the end of next century.
  
  IR had different visions of a musician who would convey message merely through instrumental scores with a heavy reliance on the choice of instruments and notes to create a mood on the listener. His scores for films like 16 vayathinile, kavik kuyil during his early stages are amazing. The whiz kid ARR continues to show his prowess with excellent melodies in ESK, Jodi, Mudhalvan and Taj Mahal. The year 1999 is a vintage year for ARR with such megahits. ( i am not counting any hindi numbers here!) Now comes the question, are songs like 'jumbalaka', 'niagara' , 'shakalala baby..' of good quality? Someone who has a intense taste for instruments/rhythm and a world-wide knowledge on music would say "YES...", going by the way ARR has intercalated a variety of tastes. Some who hates up-beat numbers would say they are mediocre. IMO, if these songs capture the minds of people with a great deal of endurance , they are definitely of good quality. IMO, (purely personal) fast numbers like these fadeaway over time and be forgotten within a short period of time. How many of us still like 'katta vandi katta vandi..' or 'pothuvAga en manasu thangam..' like songs. They were super-hits at the time movie was released.
  
  There is another myth in the minds of many ,that IR and ARR have taken different stance in TFM by employing little or no weightage to lyrics, quite contrary to what their predecessors did. This is not true per se because a majority of such songs having a substandard lyrics were/are written for mediocre movies or situations (if there were any , demanding!). Also movies that came in the 80s and 90s were mostly either love stories or masala (5 fights and 5 songs package) types which had nothing demanding. So, the MDs had/have little choice to insist the lyricists to come up with implantable lyrics. Even though i don't take this as an excuse for mediocre lyrics , i still hold the MD's as NOT solely responsible for this. On the contrary i would appreciate them for having come up with memorable tunes that stayed in the minds of people even without significant lyrics. Hence , i conclude by borrowing a famous quote "music has the charm to soothe the savage beast..", so if your song can invigorate people's mind , you have achieved quality.
  
  
  
• From: bb (@ franck.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Thu Dec 2 20:21:03 EST 1999
  
  rameshb, if a song can invigorate people's mind, it doesn't mean it is of a high quality.if it is, britney spears/daler mahendi is a better musician than IR/ARR:-) this is similar to a classic debate between what is literature and what is pulp fiction. i wouldn't dilute literature/music by lowering the bar.
  
  
• From: rameshb (@ spider-wm073.proxy.aol.com) on: Thu Dec 2 22:00:42 EST 1999
  
  bb
  My last statement was only to stress upon the primary objective of a song , which i think is "soul soothening to the listener". I think you have taken that last statement literally without considering other points i have emphasized upon. May be , i should have rephrased my statement saying "invigorate people's mind in such a manner to deeply stay in their mind for a long time", ie the lasting quality. Also, all through my essay, i have only been discussing the quality of a song and NOT qualities of MD. I would never call a song which is an instant hit going by the craze and popularity amongst a targetted genre as being of any standard quality, unless it has an enduring value. DM might be giving instant hits to which those punjabis and other northies may dance. But they woundn't stand more than a couple of years as they wouldn't be please them any longer than that. We have some likeable numbers like " gata rahe mera dil.." , "abi na jao chOdkar.." ," chhOd do aanchal zamana " etc from the same northies which are still worth a million times listening. Now could you tell me which ones are of a good quality? DM's "thunak thunak .." type of numbers or these classics?
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 209.36.218.65) on: Fri Dec 3 17:26:51 EST 1999
  
  My measure of a good song:
  
  1) Sandham--The song must have a pleasant sandham regardless of pace (fast, mid-tempo or slow), genre (Pop, Classical, rock'n'roll, techno), or time (the era it was made).
  
  2) Appropriate Instrumentation--If Kurukku Siruththavalae had keyboard drums it would have been inappropriate, when the Western violin prelude collides with shrieking keyboard sounds and lousy flutes in the beginning of "Annamalai Annamalai Aasai Vechchu" Deva violated the Appropriate Instrumentation rule and ruined the genre integrity of what should have been a simple love song with spare arrangements.
  
  3) Singers who jell with the song's mood--Pretty simple rule, Malaysia Vasudevan would have done a better job of "Adi Kaanakkarunguyilae Kacheri" than KJY and of course KJY would have hoisted high "Koadaikaalak Kaatrae" or "Kaadhal Oaviyam Paadum Kaaviyam".
  
  4) Singers who understand what they're singing or do a good job faking it--Understanding the song's language is intrinsic to a song's soul that when a singer just mouths the lyrics without showing an understanding of it (early Hariharan) the song sounds uninspired and unconvincing. For a good example, listen to all post-70s TFM songs of SPB and any P.Suseela song. Of course pronunciation and richness of voice go without saying.
  
  5) Integrity of lyrics--My pet peeve. Songs that use surface rhymes (nenjam for manjam), stale imagery ("nee poovaaga naan vandaaha" how many zillion times more would they keep using this?), words from other languages when there's absolutely no need for them ("Azhagiya nilavil oxygen nirappi") will never rate high with me. The lyricist must be inspired to write either by the situation, the tune, or just simply because he/she has a gift and must #*^%^&^ show something in return for being given an opportunity to write. There should be at least one unique twist of a word, a metaphor or rhyme in every song.
  
  
• From: Jay Narayanasamy (@ 1cust9.tnt6.har1.da.uu.net) on: Fri Dec 3 19:57:45 EST 1999
  
  I contradict with rameshb for his various opinions.
  
  It's an illusion that Tamil films were so good till 70's and worst in 80's. The revolutionary period of tamil film is 80's indeed (say76-87). 60's film stories are un-relalistic ethics(neethi pothani)oriented. That's the period for songs. Not only MSV, KD-KVM combination was also good. When Sivaji was showing his excellence in acting, MGR was successfully executing 5 fights-5 songs package formula that time itself.
  
  Late 60's-mid 70's is doom period of TF industry. Mostly artificial, irritating hero worship stories had been made that time. MSV's knowledge was exploited for others political advantage. Luckily Kannadasan escaped. Sreedhar and KB were making experimental movies. Good movies but the presentation was mostly 'dramatic' type. Songs are really great. Kattrukkenna vEli?
  
  In mid 70's IR and BR entered into TF. That was the great opening for nativity&relaistic kind of stories. BR 's earlier movies are praised much for manvasanai. It was very well established by Mahendran and Balumahendra. How the hell I could forget that film UdiriPookal ! Moondrampirail Kannadasan elthiyavi kavithaiya, padala? Earlier JK had proved his identity through his films Sila nerangalil sila manitharkal, Oru Nadigai nadagam parkiral. Seemed that his Unnai Pol oruvan was in competition with Ray. Muthal mariyathai and Sindhu bhairavi are other good movies. Tamil world realized the power of screenplay when Fazil came up with Poove Poochudava. Mani took Maunaragam, Nayagan. During that period almost in all movies Raja had extended his musical regime with different dimensions. He would ever be remembered for his incredible contribution to TFM!
  
  Then things were getting changed. Poor guys started focusing raja as a god
  for their personal benefits. Mani started taking artificial commercial movies
  in sophisticated way. All of sudden TF took a big turn and vanished in
  to thin masala air again!
  
  
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 209.36.218.65) on: Wed Dec 8 16:13:43 EST 1999
  
  Srikanth and RajaG,
  Where are your measures of a good song? I'm waiting. RajaG, as I mentioned in the "1999 a glance" thread, I thought 99 was a good year for TFM and much better in overall variety and number of good songs than the last couple of years.
  
  

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