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Is WCM necessary for Tamil film songs?

Topic started by Nazir (@ 172.141.141.155) on Thu Sep 26 07:29:22 EDT 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Having WCM knowledge is worthy but is it a must to use it in Tamil film songs? When our lyricists use english words, we shout at our strongest voice but when a Indian MD infuses Western Classical in a tamil song we go ga ga..why is that?
Why did WCM became a measuring factor for Tamil songs?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: a (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Fri Sep 27 05:41:13 EDT 2002
  
  Thats all nice fitting answers to Are Yaar.
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 213.42.1.173) on: Fri Sep 27 08:29:00 EDT 2002
  
  Kaumadi...so who will bell the cat ? ;-)
  
  Start a thread, draw up a ceasefire plan....put down the Points of Contention of both IR and ARR fans
  
  Then a healthy discussion should ensue on a Code of Conduct and a Line of Control. ; which both parties shouldn't enroach.
  
  
• From: Kaumudi (@ 136.142.153.250) on: Fri Sep 27 10:41:56 EDT 2002
  
  Cosmician
  Many a time, I wanted to take this initiative of bringing some sort of peace between all the DFers and to suggest some decorum in the forum, but have been intimidated by the fact that people can go to any extent of defamation when it comes to their favorite musicians and artists. No wonder many of the oldtimers don't post anymore.
  
  These ceasefire attempts have already been made previously (check the links below and a few more earlier) but in vain. What happened? Some responsible people wrote some nice and "have-to-be and have-to-do" things for all the fans. But in the end, someone provokes, someone else reacts to it and that's the end of the ceasefire.
  
  http://www.newtfmpage.com/forum/25056.05.17.18.html
  http://www.newtfmpage.com/forum/23459.02.41.10.html
  
  Everytime (that is pretty much everyday) I see people abusing each other in the forum, I start to think how come they don't behave with any sort of civility. Then I start to write something down to bring peace, but then I say to myself (with some previous experience and learning from others' experiences) that it is not worth bringing truce after all because I am scared that I might pulled into the mudslinging exercise, unnecessarily.
  
  So I am just contended reading threads like VJ's songs (although this thread starter has labelled us as the VJ bhajanamandali), Amateur composers (I learn so much here) and P.Susheela's songs and a few other threads and contributing as much as I can.
  
  I wish to comment on just one other thing. Some ARR fans doing this blackmailing business - statements like "if you do this to my ARR, I will come and make a mess of your IR" completely turn me off. I have always thought of Are Yaar (for e.g.) and a couple of others as great ARR fans who also like IR numbers. In fact Are yaar went on record saying that people need the vintage IR with the rich orchestrated melodies that he is famous for. So why do this blackmailing, saying "don't cross the line" and sometimes unwanted stone-throwing at others? This is extremist attitude. By doing this you are not only creating an opportunity for more unhealthy provocative discussions but also making more and more Gods and ambleens (not to pick on you guys, but sorry anyway). It is just awful when I read the obscene language on my computer screen.
  
  I also believe in the adage that both the hands are responsible for producing a clap. So both IR and ARR fans indeed share equal responsibllity in bringing down the status of this forum (somewhat!).
  
  Anyway, sorry for the long post. I knew I had to vent my frustration sometime, somewhere in this forum.
  
  One last thing: I am an IR and ARR fan. I am happy about it and I respect both of them. Making music is not as easy as we let both these great men down (talk to any of the DFers in the amateur composers thread). They both have their own styles, they both work/worked hard and are doing what they should do and I like it, that's all.
  
  
• From: FanOfArr (@ 161.142.2.11) on: Fri Sep 27 11:40:08 EDT 2002
  
  so, we are supposed to turn the other cheek?
  
  why does it not apply to ir fans?
  
  
• From: Vj (@ 61.11.81.64) on: Sat Sep 28 02:01:41 EDT 2002
  
  reminds me of Naayagan ... "Avana nirutha sollu... naan nirutharaen"... :-))
  
  btw, i fully support Kaumudi's statements... let peace prevail :-)
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.161) on: Sat Sep 28 04:50:53 EDT 2002
  
  Kaumadi...you make perfect sense !
  
  >>>>Making music is not as easy as we let both these great men down (talk to any of the DFers in the amateur composers thread).<<<<
  
  Very true !
  
  The sad part is mud-slinging on ARR or IR's personalities. They would indeed be horrified if they were to read these here.
  
  
• From: Music_lover (@ 210.212.160.34) on: Sat Sep 28 06:21:09 EDT 2002
  
  "Is WCM necessary for Tamil film songs?"
  
  Are trousers and shirts necessary for Tamilians ?
  
  are aloo parathas and paneer mutter necessary for Tamilians ?
  
  why, the very concept of cinema which was brought in by the Lumiere brothers - is it necessary for Tamilians ?
  
  Yennappaa ippadi oru topic ?!
  
  
• From: Nazir (@ 172.156.7.59) on: Sat Sep 28 07:48:34 EDT 2002
  
  although this thread starter has labelled us as the VJ bhajanamandali
  
  Kaumudi as long as someone praises their favorite artiste, its their wish and devotion. But when they start verbally abusing(in decorative english)other singers to praise their favorites, they irk sincere music fans.
  Yes VJ is a good singer but to say that she is the only one good and worthy singer and all other singers do not deserve their fame is fanaticism. This is what happens in this forum. To appreciate their favorites they start criticising other artistes.
  So i dont find anything wrong in calling them bhajanamandali
  
  
• From: Kaumudi (@ 136.142.153.250) on: Sat Sep 28 09:58:33 EDT 2002
  
  Let us not diverge anymore than we already have by talking about VJ and other issues here, in this thread.
  
  
• From: avr (@ 132.216.66.119) on: Sat Sep 28 12:30:18 EDT 2002
  
  Kaumudi:
  
  Sorry to continue the digression. While I do not justify sending people hate-mails with poor remarks made about their religion etc, I have to say two things. Firstly, I myself have been similarly insulted by people like Azad B, the kind of people who cannot tolerate someone having a different opinion. It is certainly not a sin on my part if I believe that the M. monopoly issue is a myth. Someone may disagree, but there is no need to keep hurting or insulting me because I have a different view. This is a public forum. If a diametrically opposite view cannot be tolerated, you should create a yahoogroup which is moderated and which is open to only those members who are in full agreement with each statement made. ( Noet the "you" here doesnt refer to you, Kaumudi, the individual, but a general case.)
  
  Secondly, there have been unsavoury remarks passed about Janaki and Chitra in VJ threads. Look at the remarks passed about Sudha Ragunathan too. Was her performance in Ivann so bad that people should say she sounded like a nerdy kid trying to impress his teacher? And that too by people whose knowledge of music wouldnt be 1/1000th that of Sudha's?
  
  Also, if some MD keeps VJ as his exclusive singer, you rejoice, coz she is your favourite. Thats fine, but then it is childish to talk about "politics" ad nauseum, if the singer being chosen exclusively isnt VJ. If Ravi Shankar is justified in taking VJ as against someone else becasue he is Ravi Shankar, then Ilayaraaja is justified in preferring Chitra over VJ. Ilayaraaja is no less than Ravi Shankar. It is quite irritating to say that it was his foolish whim to choose somebody just because that somebody isnt your favourite. Thats where this whole thing stinks.
  
  So there is a desperate attempt to prove "VJs superiority over everyone else".
  
  If a person expresses his view that Janaki sang a certain song better than VJ, then it is dismissed as politics, prejudice, tastelessness, glorification of mediocrity or passing of personal opinions as facts. However, why isnt this same treatment or logic utilized when somebody feels that Vani sang it better than Janaki? Fairness demands the acknowledgement that this too is a case of "passing personal opinion as fact". Fair and square!
  
  I hope you understand what I meant.
  
  
• From: Aalavandhan (@ 203.106.188.196) on: Sat Sep 28 12:34:18 EDT 2002
  
  Hey!
  This is much more interesting than the usual IR-ARR sandais.
  Please continue digressing. :)
  
  
• From: avr (@ 132.216.66.119) on: Sat Sep 28 12:34:49 EDT 2002
  
  About WCM in TFM, it has been a blessing. Ilayaraaja's genius is only evident with the way he has "indianised WCM". (This statement was amde by none less than Salil Chowdhury, under whom Ilayaraaja has played the guitar, and a person who himself created tonnes of songs based on WCM.) While the technical part of WCM is beyond my reach, I must say that consistent use of WCM in many songs has given TFM a unique flavour which is missing in many Hindi songs of the 70s onwards (except those by Salilda).
  
  Sometimes I wonder how Ilayaraaja could produce something as delightful as POONKADHAVE with just paper and pencil!
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.51.203.216) on: Sat Sep 28 18:03:55 EDT 2002
  
  Thought this would be somewhat interesting to post it in this thread. Susheela Raman, a blues singer of Tamil origin
  http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/world/awardssusheela.shtml
  
  and an article in the latest AV
  http://www.vikatan.com/av/2002/sep/29092002/av0203.shtml
  
  
• From: Awe (@ 65.69.58.114) on: Sat Sep 28 23:10:10 EDT 2002
  
  Yea we don't need WCM , Carnatic for TFM. What we need urgently is 'peta rap', 'hip-hop', 'gana songs'.
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.161) on: Sun Sep 29 00:13:58 EDT 2002
  
  Nice link Vijay..thanks :-)
  
  
• From: Vj (@ 61.11.80.33) on: Sun Sep 29 03:32:38 EDT 2002
  
  avr... nice post and a good english flow too :-)
  
  

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