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Lyrics in songs of IR compared to rehman

Topic started by karthik (@ 207.78.88.252) on Mon Jan 26 18:41:30 EST 1998.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: N. VENKATACHALAM (@ palo7.pacific.net.sg) on: Tue Feb 16 23:52:09 EST 1999
  
  It was interesting to read the hole topic. But I feel that presently ARR is in a state like IR when IR composed songs like ORAMBO and Yenna Pattu pada which was to say the least ridiculous. May be ARR shall come down soon to the earth. Hey guys dont u think the world is one full round when u find that IR is presently in a state like MSV when IR toppled him in the seventies. Hmm every dog has its day. regards
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Wed Feb 17 00:43:15 EST 1999
  
  About "Idhayam oru koil", I find no contradiction in it: The lines go
  
  " Paadhai ondru endra podhum disaigal veramma..
  Unadhu paadhai veru enadhu paadhai veramma"
  
  On the surface that seems to be a contradiction. However, close examination suggests that the "Paadhai" in the first line and "paadhai" in the second line mean two different things .Its like this:
  
  Paadhai no. 1 means " ROAD"
  paadhai no.2 means "PATH"
  
  The two words are not interchangeable in English strictly. ROAD is the physical entity...PATH is an abstract concept. The word "Paadhai" covers both the English terms in Tamil. So, what the guy is trying to say is:
  
  Line 1:
  "The ROAD(the physical entity) we are travelling in is one and the same..but the directions we have chosen to go are different..(i.e) If you are going towards east on GT road, I am moving towards west in the same physical road=G.T Road".
  
  Line 2 now summarises the resultant state of events :
  "Hence, your PATH is different from my PATH"
  (unadhu PATH veru. Enadhu PATH veru"
  PATH=Physical entity(ROAD)+ Direction
  
  Actually, Raja has played with the word "paadhai" ... he deserves to be praised for such cute thinking.
  
  Now, to the charge that Raja didnt care about lyrics, it is not absolutely true. To a large extent, the lyrics in his movies are decent, at the least, unless the situation demands otherwise. A "kadaindhedutha pattikaattan" with no inclination towards philosophy like Sivakumar of "Indru nee naalai naan" is apt to sing "Enna paattu paada". To expect profound lyrics for that situation is nothing if not uncloaked naivette.
  
  If you take the first five years of Raja(not even 8 years) one can come up with atleast 100 songs with excellent lyrics(not algorithmic stuff like "Chinna chinna aasai") , which itself negates the theory that he didnt bother about lyrics. If, later, the quality reduced , blame it on the nincompoops he got for lyricists. Also,He was sure enough that his music will tell the situation itself and there is no need for words to express the character's feelings/situation. He was ,like,the Kannadasan of Music. The lyrics just were a platform on which His music ran. They ahd to be there but it didnt matter whether they had a meaning by themselves. His concept about film music was/is different from others'- in his opinion, he could express the situation without the help of lyrics. IMO, he did that famously. A song like "Azhagiya kannae" doesnt have GREAT lyrics. But it is a clasic that will linger in the minds of true Music lovers for a long. long time to come- for HIS genius with the music alone. THere are a thopusand such songs. And that tells you the story....
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.150) on: Wed Feb 17 08:03:29 EST 1999
  
  Raj
  I can't agree with you more. IR songs hardly needed lyrics to linger on and on. The song `Poongatru thirumbuma' had very ordinary lyric - more like talking only. But the melody, the flute -they speak more than what words can express.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-101.il.us.ibm.net) on: Wed Feb 17 09:21:02 EST 1999
  
  Raj :
  Calling China China asai as a alogo!....
  What to say?.....
  
  What about these
  eg:
  "Raja Raja chozan nan"
  "Pazamuthir Solai "
  All flat tuned songs clearly indicating lyrics for the tune. these are also Alogo....
  
  Raja ....KANNADASAN TO MUSIC ....HA HA HA HA HA HOO HOOO HOOO HE HEE HEEE....
  
  Naila adhu vanathu mela , palanadhu ....Ena patu pada...A dialog forced to a tune.
  Raja forced the lyric writter to pen absolute bull_shit,
  
  I would say there were good and many bad or worse lyrics accecpted by Raja. He takes the 75% of the credit of spoling the standard of lyrics in TFM.
  As per music theory many Raja's tune are total algo, lyric writers coded around this algo.
  At one stage he did not care about lyrics at all -- greatest joke when people did not write what he wanted, he started to write himself and started torturing us.
  
  Arr till sometime ago did not accept thoughtless lyrics just to fill his tune, VM's lyrics has some sense in it. As udhaya told sometime ago VM, the talented jerk is supporting ARR.
  
  Finally my point here is , if any one complains Arr's song have poor lyrics -- which is not the case in majority of his song...It is Raja who started this trend of poor or bad lyrics in tfm.
  
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Wed Feb 17 09:49:58 EST 1999
  
  Srikanth, Thanks again for the wise insight ... I stand corrected. Hereon, I'll try to make vague, unsubstantiated, illogical statements without any effort whatsoever to cater to such banalities as logic and sense. Thanks for opening my eyes to the simple, but painful fact that there is no place for a logical, sensible discussion here. It saves me a lot of time and typing effort to desist from clearly organise, articulate and express my points logically ..instead ,I am going to resort to mere mud-slinging and muck-raking. I suppose much fun can be had that way ! Okay, lets start:
  
  IR God of music. IR dont need good lyric.He's music say all emotion. VM oru mudhal. ARR fool. NO good lyric no good music from arr-vm. Thanks
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 207.43.195.201) on: Wed Feb 17 11:18:01 EST 1999
  
  Srikanth,
  
  I don't agree with you. First, the quality of lyrics has changed (degenerated IMO) over time. It is true that the amount of vulgarity increased coincidentally with the advent of IR but it definitely was NOT because of IR. Tamizh movie culture itself underwent a major transformation with Bharathiraja, Baagyaraaj et al. Aabaasam was not only in the lyrics of the songs but also in the theme of the movies itself. For example, murungaikkaai (mundhaanai mudichchu) is today's viagra. However, mild doses of vulgarity or double meaning existed even during MSV's prime. Elandhapayam, naan oru kaadhal sanyaasi are examples eventhough they were exceptions. But with the advent of ARR, the lyrics have become sema pEththal. You cannot compare exceptions of IR with norms of other MDs. Let me give you an example closer to home (your home that is!). We can trace some MSV songs as copies, but largely these are exceptions. However, would you even compare him to Deva, whose exceptions (if there are any) are non-copies.No.
  
  Please explain to me the meaning of Strawberry KannEy,Love Phobia, Koondhalil meen pidippEn, Flight il vandha nandavanm, and the following rap in Kallori Saalai.
  
  Yo Kalloori Saalai, Hotter than a summer day,
  Bus stop tea shop in the middle of a non stop
  Cutie Beautie and sweet as candy,
  I'm mad I'm bad I'm a Romeo Baby......
  
  Trust me. I have spent enough time on these stupid lyrics which, (engammaa solra maadhiri) if had spent on other useful things, OHOHOnnu munnukku vandhiruppEn.
  
  Also, IR, MSV, ARR have become famous and owe their identity to the HITS they have created. The exceptions are merely commercial by products which are not to be quoted as examples of their achievements or lack thereof. Only when these bad exceptions become too frequent, then they start becoming the norm. ARR entered the TFM scene with a bang based on Roja and especially Chinna Chinna Aasai is not even an opinion anymore. It is a fact. And it is true that the lyrics are algorithmic. So is Rukkumani Rukkumani. Does this mean Anjali Anjali (Duet) or ThangamEy thamizhukkillai do not have good lyrics? Of course not! But the frequency of pEththal lyrics is increasing at an alarming rate. (Wow! second derivative aa!)
  
  Nila adhu vaanaththu mElE is a bad example you have chosen. It is absolutely appropriate based on the cultural awareness level of the character and the Marathi lEjiyam beat. Plus, it is still only an exception.
  Further, I have seen many posts which criticize lyrics written for tune. What is wrong with it? After all, the song (lyrics+tune) is being created for some "standard" situation at the insistence of the Director (or even such experts as Producer/Financier). So how does it matter as to what comes first. Let's not kid ourselves. Plus, just imagine if you had to come up with a tune AFTER VM or Vaali has given you "Strawberry KannEy". I am quite sure I would have used the tune for aNNEy aNNEy or mErE angnEy me. Definitely, not an opera style composition for that crap.
  
  Raj,
  
  I always knew that there was an SPM inside you waiting to come out. Too bad it could not be SPB, and you had to settle for SPM:-)
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Wed Feb 17 11:47:38 EST 1999
  
  RajaG:
  I didnt think before I inked. On second thoughts, I should have had the patience to reply like you did. Enna pandradhu, there are occasions which bring the beast lurking in you. But srikanth has this annoying habit of quoting arbitarily and well, is almost a SPM of anti-IR school. To say this pains me...I wish Srikanth lives up to his vast and much-respected talent and knowledge in music instead of swiping in the dark. Srikanth yet again Iappeal to you to react cooly and logically instead of resorting to emotional(read illogical) salvos. It doesn't, I repeat for the nth time, befit your stature.
  Raja(ji): I hope you dont get a reply like the one I got.:)
  
  
• From: sabesan (@ 209.31.38.108) on: Wed Feb 17 14:28:29 EST 1999
  
  good response to srikanth's comment raj... and man u cooled down so fastly... and don't ever expect Srikanth to reply ur comment... suddenly he comes and says something and disappears when u give valid points and then suddenly he comes and say "heard IRs latest album... i cant find where Raja is"... i think whatever sriks is commenting is 100% equal to "IR is GOD" kind of argument... both useless....
  
  
• From: dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Wed Feb 17 14:51:25 EST 1999
  
  Here are some of the best Lyrics from ARR
  1. 50 Kg Taj Mahal Enake Enaka. Flightl vanda Nanadavaname Eneke Eneka
  2. Telephone ManiPol Seripaval Evala - I have never seen anyone laughing like a telephone bell
  3. Nenjinele Nenjinele....Seventhathe En MANJALLE - What is the Manjal that he is referring to?
  4. Athisayame AsanthuPogum Athisayem - Jeans
  5. Neethane Computer Nam Kathal Software - Kadhal Desam
  and we can go one for ever ....
  
  So dont even compare ARR Lyrics with IR. IR has never allowed the so called Kaviarasu VM to slip like this with all kinds of absurd lyrics.Thats probably why he stopped working with VM.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Wed Feb 17 14:58:14 EST 1999
  
  No.5 Should read as 'Nam Kathal Computer Nee thaane Software'.
  
  

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