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Ilayaraja copy adiththa paadalgal

Topic started by Rajaraman (@ 192.122.136.148) on Sat Jul 26 05:27:10 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: chandy (@ 209.125.83.228) on: Mon Mar 22 12:25:51 EST 1999
  
  Srinath :
  
  I fail to understand why you have to take the arguments from an issue-lvel to a personal level. IMO, your argumentative style, tone and defensive mechanisms seem to degenerate to person-to-person attacks, leaving the issues aside. I would appreciate if you could restrict your postings to the issues concerned, without any references to a person's style of communication, or matters that are person-specific. My comment is not based on the single posting above, but a number of your postings in diff threads. A little change in your approach can make things better for a number of others.
  
  chandy
  
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ ss05.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Mon Mar 22 12:40:40 EST 1999
  
  1. It is not my prerogative to see to it that everyone is comfortable and happy in the DF. I have told you earlier that I am not exactly known and loved for my non-existent politeness. Please refer to the POliteness and this Forum thread for my views on this subject.
  
  2. Calling me and other IR fans blind-folded is not the true representation of an issue-based argument either.
  
  I would be only too willing to argue placidly if the initiator of such argument were to set the tone. Your accusations aren't exactly friendly or conducive to chit-chatting. Still - since you have made a polite request to change my approach, I will accede - on one single condition - please keep the accusations tempered with realism. Nagging me to see from your point of view is not going to make me change my stance. I have nothing against you criticizing IR - but put things in proper perspective. Even as you say that IR has copied, please make your views on his talent as an artiste known. Are you saying that IR, as a musician, should be viewed differently because he too has copied ? If so, how ? Should we think of IR as more fallible ? Should we respect his achievements that much less, because we now "know" that he has copied (even though it is not those copies that we admire him for)? What is the purpose of your accusation ? What end result do you intend to achieve ? Where does your accusation fall in the scheme of things ? Explain your stance AND the reason for your stance better and then you would be fully justified in expecting others to follow suit !
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ ss05.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Mon Mar 22 12:45:28 EST 1999
  
  Chandy:
  I am not trying to be "cool" when I refer you to the "Politeness and this Forum" thread. I mean it sincerely. I believe that I have clearly explained my stance there and since you have developed an opinion based on my other posts, I think you should take a look at these too to get fuller, if not more balanced, view of the nature of my posts.
  
  
• From: pg (@ gate02.merck-medco.com) on: Mon Mar 22 13:00:25 EST 1999
  
  IR's copies - THE LIST (admittedly a few but they exist nevertheless) :
  
  1. thamthinnAm thAnnam - yAthrA (Balu Mahendra movie in mallu dubbed as kaNNe kalaimAnE in Tamil) - EXACT copy of My Favourite Things from The Sound Of Music.
  
  However this is a STANDARD in Jazz music. Standards in Jazz music are pieces which anybody feels free to perform and improvise. From John Coltrane to Grover Washington Jr everybody has their own variations of this wonderful song. In Jazz you become great only by performing standards (before you can compose your own tune). Every Jazz performer worth his salt will have an album called Standards. (However this applies to PERFORMERS - does this apply to composers ?)
  
  2. The initial piece of 'veetukku veetuku vAsappadi vEnum' is undoubtedly derived from the beginning movement of Mozart's 25th Symphony (the famous Titan watch ad).
  
  3. kaN malargaLin azhaippidhazh (movie - ?) is inspired by ABBA's 'Money Money Money' song. Why is this inspired and not copied ? Listen to both and you will find out. Raja adds his own masterly touches to a segment of ABBA's tune.
  
  4. chittukkuruvi vetkappadudhu - chinna veedu - is based on third movement of Antonin Dvorak's New Wold Symphony. Again this is an inspiration. The first few bars of the third movement are extrapolated into 5+ minutes of Raja's song. To IR -bashers this is a copy. To IR-'beshars' (besh besh idhu romba nalla irukku !) this is an inspiration !
  
  Plus of course
  
  5. kanavu kANum vAzhkai yAvum from KA's hindi number (ditto copy - no inspiration here)
  
  6. (Darling) e3 - from Boney M's (Sunny) e3. I haven't heard the original.
  
  'Copies/inspirations' are not so uncommon as we think are.
  As mentioned bfor in Jazz playing standards in THE WAY to establish yourself.
  In WC music there are ao many 'Variations of a Theme of _________' compositions and these are valid WC compositions. Beethoven himself has a 'Variations on a Theme of Diabelli' also called Diabelli variations. Do we judge Beethoven on his Diabelli variations or do we judge him on his Symphonies ?
  
  
• From: hari (@ hud04a01.ml.com) on: Mon Mar 22 13:02:37 EST 1999
  
  raj and vijay,
  I still rememer reading some kamal interview about
  the theme music in punnagai mannan. Kamal had bought a new keyboard that time, and he came up with this music. I dont know, whether it is original, or as usual kamal flicked from some sources. But I will doubt any ARR involvement in creating this music piece.
  
  e.hari
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Mon Mar 22 13:09:48 EST 1999
  
  "To IR-'beshars' (besh besh idhu romba nalla irukku !) this is an inspiration. To IR -bashers this is a copy"
  
  PG: What is it to you?:)
  
  Since you are the first to make a genuine attempt to make a list(Gosh!Two years and two days of passionate pleas to make this happen!Anyway, I am happy someone took initiative...I appreciate your attempt) , may I 'politely'(Ozhungu Mariyadhaiya seiyareengala, illai veerappan annachiyai koopidattuma?:)) request you to make a list of WHAT YOU THINK are copies of Raja? There is no catch here. If you think it is a copy, put it down in words. If you think something is an inspiration, throw it out of that list. Lets have your opinion, please. Not JUST your opinion on what others' opinion will be:).
  
  Your last point is exactly what we have been trying to make all these days. Now that someone with 'Vision' has put forward the same point, I hope the sighted people of this valley understand it:)
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Mon Mar 22 13:11:55 EST 1999
  
  Well,E.hari, that clinches it for me. I wont believe a word of what Kamal says...it closes the issue for me... Iam convinced that the accusation is boo-hoo. Others can argue it out now, if they wish so:).
  
  
• From: hari (@ hud04a01.ml.com) on: Mon Mar 22 15:31:34 EST 1999
  
  raj,
  what issue is closed now sir?. Whether IR copied this piece or kamal did not give it to IR. Going by your statement, if it is a copy, then IR will be the direct target of accusation.
  
  e.hari
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Mon Mar 22 15:39:50 EST 1999
  
  Hari sir: I thought "I wont believe a word of what kamal says.I'm convinced the accusation is boo-hoo" implies I believe that I am not taking Kamal's claim seriously. Well, okay,if you wish so, I'll state that in simple terms(It never pays to be cryptic, does it?:)) :
  
  Unless you quote a more reliable source than Kamal himself , I refuse to acknowledge that Kamal played the piece and Raja copied it.
  Hope thats clear:)
  
  
• From: Mr.Kuzapam (@ 206.139.13.152) on: Mon Mar 22 15:44:46 EST 1999
  
  The best MD I had ever known is IR.
  TamiZ TheeraiPada ulaguiku oru varam -- IR
  .... these were also uttered by kamal,
  
  Raj:
  We believe that you are not taking Kamal's claim seriously
  
  
• From: Mr.Kuzapam (@ 206.139.13.152) on: Mon Mar 22 15:53:41 EST 1999
  
  adding to PG's list:
  
  7. Enjodi Manaja kuruvi in Vikram
  - Dutches and DirtWAter Fox title theme.
  (I remember Hindu also put about this issue)
  Do not ask me the date, it came up when Vikram was released.
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Mon Mar 22 15:57:31 EST 1999
  
  Hi Kuzhappa sigaramae! Welcome back! Nothing gives me more pleasure than to " do a one-up" on you! Yes, I have the opportunity again. How come you are so hell-bent on satisfying my ego?!:))Again you are confused...About these tow statements that you have quoted of Kamal- YES, I wont believe Kamal. Because, I dont need Kamal's approval or assurance for that! I know for sure that IR is the best . And I dont believe in that because of Kamal. I believe in that because of my conviction. Now, if Kamal says "Sun rises in the east"(which is an equivalent of the statements you have quoted, BTW:)), should I deny it just because Kamal said it? NO dear kuzhappam, I am not that confused. I KNOW it when Kamal says a fact and when he is boasting.
  
  Confused?:) I really cant help you, dear,sorry!
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Mon Mar 22 16:04:00 EST 1999
  
  PG:Please Prune your list and remove the inspirations. Otherwise, people like Kuzhappam will take advantage to put a big number:)). I think the first four songs in your list, you have accepted yourself, are inspirations . So, the list is only 2-strong now. And should I go into the justification for these two again?:)
  
  
• From: hari (@ hud04a01.ml.com) on: Mon Mar 22 16:36:07 EST 1999
  
  raj,
  That is what Im trying to say. If kamal does not
  play any hand in this, and this piece turned out to be a copy, I guess one more to add in the (long )list of IR copies :-)
  
  e.hari
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Mon Mar 22 16:44:51 EST 1999
  
  (Long) list? :)))))
  Shall I give you a long list of original songs of Raja? Hey!tfmpage server will crash ,maan!
  Well, let me put it this was..why should we consider a way-side interview given by Kamal, which you vaguely remember? Could it not be that the claim that Kamal played it to Raja itself a hoax? With Kamal, thatis certainly possible. I refuse to believe that unless you come up with precisely the source where kamal copied from and passed on to Raja, if at all. Why should I?
  
  
• From: Mr.Kuzapam (@ 206.139.13.152) on: Mon Mar 22 17:30:53 EST 1999
  
  Raj --- Nalave pulambugirar, AYOPavam
  Evar list poduvaram - server crash agoma...
  super pulambal....
  
  Btw : why do you parody with my name,
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Mon Mar 22 17:48:38 EST 1999
  
  Kuzappam: Really! If I had a less humorous outlook , I might have been offended by your misplaced sympathy ...no, this wont do...try harder...you are only amusing me repeatedly...I dont know when you are going to succeed in irritating me , really:).
  BTW, If Ravi doesnt mind, I am willing to crash this server here and now by listing Raja's hits...:))
  
  Anyway, all that is beside the point.Can you or Can you not prove your accusations on Raja?
  And dont give vague resemblances discernible only to your jaundiced ears. Or whatever it is that goes with ears as jaundiced is with eyes.
  
  
• From: Swami (@ cacher-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se) on: Mon Mar 22 18:09:03 EST 1999
  
  Kuzhapam,
  Thiruppi thiruppi ore varthai...."Pulambal". Puthusa ethavathu sollunga.
  
  

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