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Ilayaraja copy adiththa paadalgal

Topic started by Rajaraman (@ 192.122.136.148) on Sat Jul 26 05:27:10 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.194) on: Sun Mar 21 16:41:08 EST 1999
  
  being a fan of raja, i have the right to know about some of the facts concerning him. first of all is there any proof that balu mahendra or whoever had asked raja to copy and raja had succumbed to the pressure? why should raja yield to balu especially when he was at his peak? was it mainly because of his friendship with balu?
  
  BTW, does anyone know of any 'inspirations' for punnagai mannan theme tune. iam hearing from my friends(but have not been able to het hold of the original) that it is a blatant lift. anyone here who knows about it?
  
  
• From: hari (@ spider-tf072.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Mar 21 22:38:38 EST 1999
  
  vijay,
  if my memory is right, is not that theme music in punnagai mannan , kamal played it to IR and IR liked it and used it.
  
  e.hari
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.24.118) on: Mon Mar 22 00:00:57 EST 1999
  
  does that mean that IR willfully copied?
  
  
• From: harivaradhan (@ 203.197.129.128) on: Mon Mar 22 00:50:21 EST 1999
  
  hi,
  
  Infact IR, himself agreed that cine music composing is copying as well as cheating.
  
  All music notes comes from animals. i.e. re from rishbam sa from stashmam. Do you mean music copied from animals.
  
  Understand music is feeling and such composer had admire such composciation and loved to replyed in tamil cine music.
  
  not like deva copy from tamil movie itself and played in Tamil movie.
  
  My humble request, before commenting IR thing twice or thrice. He is an extraordinary fellow, never ever existed in the history of tamil cine music side.
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Mon Mar 22 00:54:36 EST 1999
  
  Srikanth! Hi ,Welcome back to IR-ARR sparring...I thought you had walked out?But then, it is too enticing m this business, isn't it?:). Okay, coming to your accusation, Jaalra?
  Now, what do I interpret by Jaalra?...Praising someone with an intention to secure the approval of that person, with an eye on any tangible gains that the person may be in a position to confer you with. Now, what do I gain by 'blindly' praising Raja, of all places , in this Forum? Does Raja, or his secretary , religioulsy go through this forum to catch up with "Ah!Whats the latest Raj(Ah!That great , knowledgeable, critic!:) has to say about Raja"? I doubt it, Srikanth, I doubt it. So, what do I gain at all by praising Raja here? If anything, I lose valuable time I should spend working for my employer:). And yet you say whatever I speak for Raja, it is jaalra. I bow before thine judgement,Srikanth!So much for your accusation. Anyway, I wouldnt mind even being a Raja-jaalra ,BTW. But that doesnt make me one, when I am not:)
  
  I would rather have you spend time on 'more useful' threads..leave the petty quarreling to mere 'jaalras' like me ,what do you say?
  
  Vijay, lets not put leading statements like "Does that mean Raja wilfully copied". It sounds to me like one of those court-scenes where the prosecution lawyer leads a witness " So, you say that Mr. Sabanayagam took the knife from the shelf and stabbed xxx repeatedly?". Let Mr. E.H come up with a properly substantiated accusation instead of throwing a flame in the dark hoping it would catch fire somewhere.
  
  
  "kamal played it to IR and IR liked it and used it" ,eh?
  
  I think we are rather being unfair on ARR here. Remember ARR was with IR during PM. I suppose it was ARR who played this particular piece on keyboard to Raja and Raja was so impressed that he used it without giving credit to ARR, which was why ARR walked out with a "mangamma Sabadham" and then we all know what happened. And my name is not ARR-Fan:)
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Mon Mar 22 01:46:56 EST 1999
  
  Raj,
  
  May I suppose that the last paragraph is just afigment of your imagination ? :-)) In an interview, when asked about this ARR said that the theme music was composed by IR and that he just programmed it.
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Mon Mar 22 02:07:31 EST 1999
  
  MS..:)). Ofcourse, thats why I said my name is not ARR-Fan:)). But ,at any rate, I would rather believe in this story than that bit about Kamal :)))
  
  
• From: Vimal (@ atrium-pc27.inre.asu.edu) on: Mon Mar 22 05:08:54 EST 1999
  
  There's one song 'Thodadha Thalam Poda vendum, Padatha Ragam Pada vendum'.. from some movie in the late eighties. Well, if you've heard Aerosmith's 'Amazing', the song concludes with a jazz piece from the fifties. I just wonder if ...
  
  
• From: chandy (@ 209.125.83.228) on: Mon Mar 22 11:23:50 EST 1999
  
  Srikanth, you are quite right. Its the blind-foldedness of these die-hard IR fans that I find intriguing.
  
  And harivardan, lets not get into philosophical debates on what music is, music is from animals.. and sounds of waves and blah blah blah. that wouldnt lead us anywhere as far as the theme of this thread is concerned.
  
  And others (esp those who seem to be quite knowledgable about IR's music - srinath, raj and others), it would be nice if you guys can take up some of the claims like that of Vimal and Kuzhapam and try and verify the facts and let others know about it.
  
  Raj, whatever be the "pressure" under which copying was done, the act of copying is what finally matters. Whether IR did it for money, fame or due to helplessness or due to circumstances prevailing then, IR is NOT Mr.CLEAN if he has done those lifts!! You can argue that he is relatively more cleaner than the rest of MDs, BUT it is important to recognise, acknowledge and admit the fact that IR is NO Mr.CLEAN if he has done any lifts.
  
  chandy
  
  
• From: lottu (@ global22.citicorp.com) on: Mon Mar 22 11:49:34 EST 1999
  
  IR Copy aditha paadalgalai konjam listu pottu sollungappa.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ ss05.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Mon Mar 22 11:55:13 EST 1999
  
  Chandy:
  Why do anti-IR guys require a certification from IR fans even to criticize him ? You want to criticize IR - go ahead and criticize all you want to. But it is nothing short of absurd expecting us to be awestruck by your 'great' observations ! Just listen to yourself, shouting, "IR IS NOT Mr.CLEAN, IR IS NOT Mr.CLEAN" !!! What do you want to do now that you have recognized, acknowledged and admitted the 'fact' that IR is NOT Mr.CLEAN ? Ok ! He is very dirty. He is a man with no morals, no ethics BLAH BLAH BLAH (your favourite terms). To me it only seems like childish petulance, screaming that IR has copied 4 out of FOUR THOUSAND songs. Yeah ? So what have you proved ? Practically nothing, except the paucity of genuine complaints against IR. Have you ever heard the term "negligible blah blah" ? Or perhaps "approaching zero blah" ? If anything, you are only proving that IR is far superior as a musician for having negligible dependence on others' creativity. What I mean by negligible is that though IR might have copied, the actual act of copying has done so LITTLE towards his existence as a musician that it would not make a difference even if he had never copied. OTOH, a genuine copy-cat is one whose career has significantly been improved because he copied. Mr.Unclean, all right. But by those STRICT standards we should not even call ARR or DEVA as musicians.
  
  Now please let me know if you still insist that I recognize, acknowledge and admit that IR is not Mr.CLEAN ???
  
  Srikanth:
  Unga baashayile IR copy-cat enral ARR enna ? Deva ???? IMO, IR is a genius and by those SAME standards, ARR is a very good musician. If you want me to accept IR as Mr.Unclean, I am sorry to say, that would make ARR downright filthy in my view. See, my standards are consistent. Have you even once admitted that IR copying 4 songs out of 4000 is not at all significant ? When people like Chandy and Kuzhapam make such absurd claims (if you are truly neutral) why do you not tell them that they are mistaken ? And IMO, ARR has decreased the standards of TFM, but then after IR, TFM was heading towards its doom and ARR has resuscitated it. But he has not raised the bar over IR's performance. So relatively ARR has raised the standards or rather protected it from dipping further. But he has not bettered IR yet - and IMO, he never will. Call me blind if that will please you - it still won't make me blind :-) I know what I see and hear !
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Mon Mar 22 12:06:41 EST 1999
  
  Chandy!
  Talking of blindfoldedness, I am equally intrigued by the so-called middle-grounders' tendency to pick on Raja. Well, I accept I am a trifle too easy on Raja...and I have accepted this before. You see, it cuts both ways. What is the point in feeding, nurturing this thread for TWO years with so little fuel? Why is it that we have had two years of discussion and come up with a meagre 3 songs? Now, the point you want to make is Raja is not MR.CLEAN? Having made that point atleast a year ago, why is it that people continue this thread? What sadistic pleasure do they gain? If all you want to say is Raja is not clean, yeah , I concede your point is made. So, he should be bracketed with ARR, Deva etc.? I think even the worst critic of Raja(and I dont mean the likes of ARR-Fan:)) would think twice before doing that.
  
  The point we repeatedly make is that Raja is an incomparable genius, which even Srikanth would concede, I am sure. He has his share of copies, apparently, but a meagre precentage and all, as I pointed out , due to external factors. You see, Panchu Arunacahlam was the man who gave him a break. If Raja were a Sri RamaChandraMoorthy, or Jesus Christ, even that would not have made him accede to PA's request to remake Darling-Darling. Sadly, he is a human-being like you and me. His failing was a human failing ... Gratitude!.And his acceding to BM was anotehr human failing Friendship!Nepotism!. How many times do we bend the rules for our friends , kith and kin! Try telling me that he copied those songs because his imagination had run dry of new tunes! Would you dare say that? (Hey!I am not threatening but just appealing to your conscience:)). Would you say Raja composed "Kanavu Kaanum .." for Melappesungal because , try as he did, he couldnt come up with a tune that expressed the depth of that sad situation? Now, if it were so, how come he came up with so many soul-stirring tunes AFTER Mellappesungal? Dash it ,15 years after Mellappesungal ,if he can come up with such a stirring tune as "Vanthil aadum ..", why couldnt he have thought of a original sad tune for Mellappesungal?Was it inability, then, that caused him to copy? Obviously, no , because if it was inability he couldnt have come up with all those ORIGINAL , STIRRING tunes AFTER Mellappaesungal. Does that clear our point ? Do you realise the difference between Deva copying and Raja copying? Do you realise that Deva copies because he cannot come up with original scores(Srikanth, do you refute this?:))? That is what I meant to say by Raja copied because of his human failings... due to his friends' pressure. OFCOURSE, IF HE HAD WISHED SO, RAJA WOULD HAVE COME UP WITH A MUCH BETTER, EXPRESSIVE TUNE FOR THAT SITUATION IN "Mella pesungal". I feel that since BM insisted on that particualr tune, may be Raja thought, if this is all you want, take it.
  I am talking about songs that have been proved in this thread to be original tunes of someone else. Please come up with a tune that Raja has copied without any pressure from anyone; A tune where it may be sufficiently proved that Raja wilfully passed off someone else's tune as his own with an eye on hogging undue credit. If you do, I'll accept that Raja is no different froM ARR. I bet you can't!
  
  That makes this thread a petty nit-picking exercise..sorry to say that. And the way this thread has been travellling only confirms that. Nobody bothers to substantiate. Mr. X comes in , states "Song Y is copied from source Z ", disappears and when asked to substantiate, simply vamooshes! And the joke is the substantiation is done subsequently by so-called Raja fanatics. So much for their fanaticism!Atleast that has been the case as far as the 'proven copies' in this thread are concerned. This thread could have been a genuine attempt to trace the failings of Raja. But I am sorry to see that people have used it to try and disgrace Raja , and having grandly failed in that attempt . are trying to throw this "Cleanliness" mud on him.
  
  Well, I neednt have given such a big discourse...this is exactly what Srinath meant, i think , in his last post. He put it as concisely as possible. But, as it goes, it needs such graphic details to put across a point:)
  
  
  2."
  And others (esp those who seem to be quite knowledgable about IR's music - srinath, raj and others), it would be nice if you guys can take up some of the claims like that of Vimal and Kuzhapam and try and verify the facts and let others know about it. "
  
  
  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
  Now, isnt that what I meant exactly! Why should I think for Vimal and Kuzhappam? It are they who made the charge. It are they who have thrown an accusation! It are they who have to prove it! Nalla Irukkae idhu! Tomorrow, someone will come up and say "Raj, You murdered Indira Gandhi..C'mon prove that you didnt..otherwise you'll be hanged"! Should I then run from Punjab to Pakistan to prove my innocence?
  
  Well, bye for now.
  
  P.S: Srinath , youwere right about DF being addictive:))
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Mon Mar 22 12:13:55 EST 1999
  
  By srinath's last post , I meant the one made yesterday(which is in the previous page), not the one immediately preceding mine today. I didnt have the fortune of seeing it before I posted my last post! Could have saved me some time!
  
  

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