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COPYING - IN TAMIL FILM HISTORY

Topic started by s.senthilkumar (@ 203.197.154.163) on Mon Jan 24 07:23:36 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

i think "copying" is there for a long time in tamil film history.Here we discuss the tamil songs copied from others.

1.Vedha:i know he always go for a hindi tune in his films(mostly for Modern theatres).No alterations! he just copy a full hindi song !

best examble:Manam ennum medai mele(Gil tho ye kulu yahag)

2.MSV: i hear that(from Sujatha's book"Neerkumiligal") "thulluvatho elamai" was a song copied from english to almost all famous indian langages.Is there any other songs MSV copied?

3.Illayaraja:Even the GOD of MUSIC Raja sir did some thing like this.He just used that "I love you"style from BOneyM Sunny for "darling darling"in priya.I have heard a totally same song like "Kanavu kanum valkkai yavum" in Hindi also.(i forgot the film).

and i dont know who is the MD for the song"ehu pal vadiyum mugam! ethai parpathu than sugam".But i heard the same song in an english film.

4.ARR : i was told from my friends that he did copying intelligently.drum beats and some music styels from cassettes like "enigma,ace of base".And the humming before the song "thillana thillana" is a 100%copy from the film"the island of Dr.Mozeru".

5.SA Rajkumar : a lot of help from hindi! best example "mallikai puve malligai puve parthaya" from "didi tera thevaru thevana"

5.DEVA:hee..hee..the master.(better we see how many songs he did on his own instead of seeing how many songs he copied!)

like wise there is a lot of songs are copied from Tamil to Hindi also..

Now its your turn friends....

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Srinath (@ 205.252.37.3) on: Fri May 5 12:20:12 EDT 2000
  
  Muri:
  Did you even read my response or did you just not understand it ? Please visit the "Politeness and this Forum" thread before throwing accusations as MS. He does not have to repeat his stance ad nauseum to everybody who questions it - and in all the wrong contexts. Why am I defending him ? Because I had similar questions like you have (reagarding his stance on politeness) and I received the answers (irrespective of whether I agreed with him or not) and I am trying to point you to where you will find the answers to your questions.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ 205.252.37.3) on: Fri May 5 12:22:17 EDT 2000
  
  Murli:
  You will also understand my position once you go through this thread that I have been talking about.
  
  
• From: aruLaracan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Fri May 5 12:40:39 EDT 2000
  
  ayyA.. indha saNdaiyai niRuththungO. anyone who can supply any technical details as to why or how a song is a copy they could do so. as of now, only a select few have shown their ability in this area. this doesnot preclude others who are out there.
  
  subjective remarks are different from objective criticisms. one can like a song or not. there is no argument there; but, a copied song will be a copied song. one can prove it by giving the swarams/chord progressions blah blah blah. objective criticism requires a certain level of exposure to technicalities and jargons. this doesnot necessarily mean that who are not exposed to these jargons are musically deaf. on the contrary, clinical pshychological studies have established that there is no musical deaf person. it's just that there are degrees of deafness. that could be cured by getting educated (reading books and listening to music simultaneously or practising music).
  
  as a last remark: if people are worried about ir getting bashed. relax. for the last two/three years search for copied songs of ir has resulted only in 4 or 5 songs (out of which 2 or 3 or still suspects - like en purushan thAn enakku mattum thAn). this is a negligible percentage of his contribution. (in fact i could quote a very famous product of beethovan which was inspired by a famous product of mozart - and they were contemporaries! that doesn't bring down the stature of beethovan!)
  
  
• From: haris (@ inet-fw4-o.oracle.com) on: Fri May 5 13:53:53 EDT 2000
  
  maratha vechavan,
  thanni oothuvAn,
  manatha pAthu thAn aala mAthuvAn..
  
  OM SANTHI OM !
  OM SANTHI OM!!
  
  
• From: krishnamurthy (@ esboaat.ceatlabs.okstate.edu) on: Fri May 5 14:07:05 EDT 2000
  
  I have listened to an old english song that very much resembled the humming 'ba ba re' in apoorva sagothirargal. Anyone heard this song?
  
  
• From: Naveen (@ proxy2o.dpn.deere.com) on: Fri May 5 14:33:16 EDT 2000
  
  Krishna,
  
  Many old English Songs sound like 'Ba Ba Re'
  I think Srikanth has already given the reason.
  One Major Chord and its related 7th chord played a lot during the begining of 20th century.
  One similar song like 'Ba Ba re' I can tell you is
  'By the rivers of Babylon.
  Where we sat down
  Ye ye we wept'
  
  Try to hum the last 2 lines ('where we sat down and Ye Ye we wept')
  ..'pudhu maapillaikku...'
  
  IF you had heard any English song with the words Ba Ba Re, I don't not know what song it is. But I too have heard that song :)
  
  BTW are you the midi composer Krishnamurthy?
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ tide77.microsoft.com) on: Fri May 5 14:47:16 EDT 2000
  
  Ennappa idhu..
  
  All I wanted to find out was how well our MDs have mastered C&P (cut and paste) technology, all I am getting to see are never ending accusations, counter-accusations, vitriolic arguments, disputes on one's favoritism and bias, personal beliefs, philosophical songs :).. As much as it entertains me, we are hardly getting anywhere..
  
  BB/Admins - the superpower, konjam visvaroopam eduthu makallukku "innadhu ippadiththan"nu eduthu sollungalen?
  
  "All hopes abandon, ye who enter here" said Dante. Do you see his name in the Web Server Logs of newtfmpage.com? Must have been his guest book entry after visiting this thread :-)..
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Fri May 5 14:56:28 EDT 2000
  
  Murali/athi,
  u can think of it like this. this 'copied songs' site is not another thread in the TFMDF. its a site. so it is owned by those 5 guys who decide what is a copy and what is not. Would u allow anyone to post any crap on your site? u would'nt. similiarly its not good to allow anyone and everyone to post whatever they think is a copy in that site.
  
  u are asking these guys to conduct an opinion poll, like what they do in ESPN sites on which team would win etc. well i can vote 10 times under different user names that a particular song is a copy especially if iam biased against a certain MD. so how are u so sure that democracy would prevail?
  
  on the other hand by welcoming everyone to submit what they think are copies and by analyzing the songs using a select commitee we are avoiding all this. All these 5 guys have earned their credibility in this forum. its obvious that u dont like srikanth to be in that panel. but u forgot that there are going to be 4 others in that group. all these guys have given numerous useful, thoughtful and insightful ideaas on music.
  
  how many have u given? i haven't even see u start any useful threads or participate in useful discussions. so how do u expect someone to suddenly give u credibility and make u a part of the panel?
  
  on the other hand u are NOT being stopped from expressing what is a copy and what is not in the 'copied thread'. u are welcome to subit as many songs which u think are copies. in fact iam going to do the same. iam going to believe in this committee and am not going to get upset(though i might debate) if a particular entry of mine is rejected.
  
  Think about all this once again with a cool head and then respond.
  
  
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Fri May 5 15:01:46 EDT 2000
  
  RajaG,
  what is the action plan? the first few songs from me would reach bb on monday. looks like he is out of town for the weekend. so how are u guys planning to go about deciding on the songs? are u going to discuss eac song in the copied songs thread? i believe it would nice if all the five of u substantiate a little bit on why do u think a song is a copy or not and post your opinions in this thread, so that everyone can see for themselves the reasons and it will also help in clearing any musical doubts/fundas. what do u say?
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ daecfp01.sprint.com) on: Fri May 5 15:05:28 EDT 2000
  
  Ravi: Krishnamurthy and Naveen had already brought it back on track with a discussion on ba ba ba rE and 14 minutes after that post you are still trying to take detour (in the pretext of innocence). If you really care about discussing within the context of this thread then please don't respond to this and start another chain of digression. If you do, you are only making your intentions clear.
  
  Naveen: interesting observation about the major, its 7th and also the minor of the madhyamam (minor is my extension of your comment). I believe the original is in G maj so the madhyamam minor would be C minor. What is the relative 7th here please?
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ daecfp01.sprint.com) on: Fri May 5 15:20:09 EDT 2000
  
  Vijay: My suggestion is we present only the relevent excerpts from the song IF it is determined to be a copy. As predominantly, we have chosen western music as source and TFM as destination these will be the initial entries. We will internally circulate a general observation on the song, why they appear similar (an explanation of the musical fundas) or where the MD has cleverly tried to disguise a copy. My perspective is that the language will be that of a third party comment instead of an accusatory tone (obviously we don't want to get into accusing an MD if he/she is not the main culprit). The format will be something like this:
  
  Source song excerpt in RA/MP3
  Deatils/Particulars: Composer, Record Company, Singer, Date -- (anything that is relevant)
  
  Similar excerpt from TFM : Similar details
  
  A general commentary from a review committee: 1 or 2 paragraphs
  
  Next Song......
  
  What do you think? BTW, thanks for your initiative and efforts!
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ daecfp01.sprint.com) on: Fri May 5 15:25:40 EDT 2000
  
  Vijay: We will as far as possible avoid using the terms copy, flicked, suttuttaan etc. However, our effort is not a curiosity quenching, truth seeking one. I definitely believe that such 'similarities' will as far as possible be brought to the attention of the original copyright holders. What they do with it is their problem.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ daecfp01.sprint.com) on: Fri May 5 15:34:46 EDT 2000
  
  Vijay: Now that I reread my earlier post, since we are not going to categorize a song as copy/inspiration etc (and get caught up in the definition) there is no restriction that we have to include only items that we deem to be copies. For example 'kiru' presented Nssi Nssi to be compared with thanga thaamarai magaLey. aruL, Srikanth and I agreed that it cannot be called a copy but there appears to be an intended choice of similar instrumentation. I don't see why such an example should not make it into that site.
  
  kiru: could you please also provide the prelude of thanga thaamarai magaLey on an rm file together with the Nssi Nssi to bb. Thanks!
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.9) on: Fri May 5 15:35:58 EDT 2000
  
  Murli:
  
  I am stopping my arguements with three points which sould, IMO ,answer your questions:
  
  (1) araichcha maavaiyE ennaala thirumba thirumba araikka mudiyaathu.
  (2) I speak for myself and myself only.
  (3) I am here to discuss and criticize (with my available knowledge) music and not about DFers. The reason is simple. It is not within the domain of newtfmpage.
  
  Well, I am not questioning your intentions. The administration has to worry about it.
  
  Srinath:
  
  Thx for your help But I suggest we may better stop else it is just going to be more troublesome for all.
  
  

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