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Ilayaraja copy adiththa paadalgal

Topic started by Rajaraman (@ 192.122.136.148) on Sat Jul 26 05:27:10 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: raju (@ pccrnt068.lgu.ac.uk) on: Wed Jan 27 13:32:19 EST 1999
  
  re. song in Priya..'akkarai seemai arakinile'is a note for note copy of the late 60's song 'Kites' by a san franciscan group Associates. this was their only world wide hit. Their other psychadelic masterpiece 'Windy' was not a hit in England but charted in america.
  I can give u a few more but an exam awaits me on friday.
  was 'AAttu mettu thoppukkule' (deva?) a copy?
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ ss07.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Wed Jan 27 15:15:35 EST 1999
  
  rameshB:
  That is purely a matter of opinon. IMO, you did misuse it ! And what's more, you keep talking about some war here. Sounds interesting ! Care to let me know where it is going on ?
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Wed Jan 27 16:14:10 EST 1999
  
  A proclamation:
  
  Am I being objective? I think so. Sometimes to preserve democracy, you can't practice it. Let's see, this thread is called "Ilayaraja copy adiththa paadalgal", yet there is so much pussyfooting around the issue because I believe most people are battle-weary to take on IR. Hell, I'm not. If I were to participate in this thread what should I do? Come up with pro-IR statements? I named three recent IR songs that are being paraded about as some of the best in TFM in at least 5 or 6 threads. These three songs sound to me like copies. If you don't agree, give me a rebuttal(and better make it decent and impersonal for if you get personal I can guarantee you that I can slum it with the best of you)
  
  More often than not, I find myself preserving objectivity in the DF by voicing the forgotten, the unpopular opinion if only to press people to look at things another way. To excuse one artist for the same flaws in another is downright biased. I challenge you to find a single thread where I have done this. I'm trying to voice the good in ARR and Deva because, frankly they're pigeonholed unfavorably in the DF. I did the same in the Kannadhaasan Vs. Vairamuthu thread where I sided with Vairamuthu just to generate objectivity. Whenever someone revives a Deva thread, the anti-Deva tribe takes hold of the thread and demoralizes it. Now, tell me, does this make for a democratic forum? I think not. All you Devabashers aren't pissed off so much by the copying as you are by his success.
  
  If you guys truly liked music for music's sake (without heeding to favorite MD, favorite singer, favorite writer, etc) then you would appreciate the good that comes out of Deva or Sirpi or any other reviled artist. Read the few reviews I have done, I have never done any a s s-kissing of any MD. Call it like it is, don't make excuses for your favorites. When you make excuses for your idols, you fall into denial, the general quality of music that you listen to goes down not to mention your standards.
  
  If you make a specific artist stand for good and bad music exclusively, then you are doing yourself a disservice, not to mention the tall order you place on that poor fallible human artist. The only time I have voiced my personal bias is in divisive threads like "Hariharan vs. SPB", which are entirely about personal taste. I'm a second-to-none SPB fan, but there are some songs that he has ruined by singing like a drunk ("Vizhigal meeno mozhigal thaeno") or laughing too much with Kishore-like mannerisms ("Kaalangale Kaalangale") As much as I criticize Hari for his briga-grandstanding and kodumThamizh, I have applauded his good songs; Hari consistently sings better for Vidhyasaagar and Deva than he has for IR or ARR, this is a fact for the unbiased listener who makes comparisons from available songs. Notice, ARR is being left out of this group too, so I'm not an ARR worshipper am I?
  
  Deva has his share of god-awful songs, so does Vidhyasaagar ("nee kaatru" and "akkuthae" in the same soundtrack? what a shame?) as does every other MD. The problem with this DF is that not many DFers would admit to this. Maybe if you side with a certain camp you feel you can't acknowledge the copies, the half-hearted attempts by your favorite. When you fall into this trap, you can't call yourself a true music fan. Try holding your heroes to a higher standard or pledge allegiance to only the music and not its maker, try it, it's liberating.
  
  How many of you guys have listened to songs from "Solayamma"? Deva is the MD. There are two great duets in that movie. The readymade diss for this from the IR camp would be that they sound IR-ish, that's such a cop out. I hate a lot of Deva songs, I believe that the man rarely creates seamless interludes, but he has produced some gems too. If you can't acknowledge that, then what can I say? Now, if you hold fast to the rule to spit on Deva for copying then hold your favorites to the same task for the same offense. When you do that then you can call yourself objective. Until then, I'll be posting to sound off against the majority.
  
  Objectively yours,
  Udhaya
  
  P.S. Srinath old buddy, I believe you have a lot more followers/friends than I ever have or ever will.
  
  
• From: rameshb (@ interlock.itthartford.com) on: Wed Jan 27 16:47:41 EST 1999
  
  Udhaya,
  it has been a long time since I have seen a effervescing posting like this from you and has been long due in this forum. I am sure a lot many people are battle-weary to even post their opinions and they donot want to be ridiculed for talking against IR. I know there was a time when a DFer with good music knowledge frowned a lot any here when he said people envy DEVA's success and that is why they bash him. Some said his identity comes to light and some even asked if he was joking. So much is taken for granted here that nobody should praise deva's good songs , otherwise they are termed 'ignorant' ,'far from objective' and what not. As long as this feigning continues , noone would come out to daringly put forward their opinions.
  
  
• From: rameshb (@ interlock.itthartford.com) on: Wed Jan 27 17:01:31 EST 1999
  
  "frowned a lot any" should read "made a lot of people to frown"
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ ss07.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Wed Jan 27 17:07:25 EST 1999
  
  Udhaya:
  I guess you are trying to catch up with all those postings that you missed :-)
  
  For one, you were being credited for objectivity when there was none. This does not mean that you are not objective at all. I was appalled to see RameshB praise your objectivity when you were so obviously being sarcastic. Nobody is questioning your objectivity, least of all me. As for challenges, I am equally confident that I have never praised a song just because it was from IR.
  
  Where Deva is concerned, why don't you understand that I am trying to dispense the same justice that you are aiming for ? Does this guy deserve any credit ? He copies a hundred songs, composes a few mediocre ones on his own (which sound like someone else's songs) and uses the cheapest tricks in the book to deliver hit songs - and you want me to praise this guy ? I have never asked you to praise IR. That is a matter of personal opinion. But it is unjustifiable when you want to equate a talentless wonder with someone like IR. A handful, Udhaya, a handful of songs is what IR copied, and these didn't make his career. Deva's biggest hits are copies and that is what makes him so popular - his biggest hits. And they make him popular because they were hits even before Deva flicked them.
  
  An alternative viewpoint maketh not objectivity. I agree, it is an admirable quality that enables a man to see beyond the obvious, and actually find out what makes it so obvious. But reason cannot be sacrificed at the altar of novelty. A is A. Look at it anyway you want.
  
  Nobody is excusing one artist for the same flaws in another. Do you think it makes me proud to think of songs that IR copied ? Absolutely not ! But what makes me admire him ? Those that he did not copy. The flaws are present in both MDs. Unfortunately, the talent is present only in one.
  I do not hate IR because he means something more than those few copied songs. Deva means VERY little beyond Manam Virumbudhe or Pulveli or Akila, Akila. If I were to weigh both MDs' flaws with the same scale, wouldn't it only be natural that I weigh both their talents similarly ? Well then, do you deny that IR's achievements are so far ahead of Deva's that he will NEVER catch up ? For every IR copy, there is an equal and equivalent Deva copy. But for every IR hit ? Is there a comparision here at all ?
  
  Now I throw a challenge of my own. Name a SINGLE, YES A SINGLE, mediocre IR number that I have praised ? IR became my favourite MD only after I set the highest possible standards. Over time, I realized that I could keep on 'upping' the bar, and this man would have already crossed it at some point in his career. Guess what ? I then took the lowest common denominator and Deva isn't halfway there yet ! If I were to be truly unbiased, I would not set different standards for IR and Deva. If it takes me a Johnny to accept IR as the greatest - GIVE ME A JOHNNY FROM DEVA TO PUT HIM IN THE SAME CLASS ! (Now that does not mean that I want Deva to copy Johnny as well ;-))
  
  Udhaya, the issue is pretty straight-forward. I do not have a mental block that prevents me from admiring Deva's works. I judge music based on certain fixed parameters. The economic or moral situation of an artist does not compel me to adjust my parameters to include him. The best of Deva is simply not as good as even the reasonably good numbers of IR - I am not even considering IR's best here.
  
  By your standards, you ought to be praising IR a hundred times for every two times that you praise Deva. But let me be reasonable here. I'll assume that you probably did that when IR came out with all those hits in his hey-days :-) But perhaps you ought to take a closer look at how your objectivity would be perceived if you are seen praising Deva even as people are praising IR. That means you are denying something to IR. If your statements had been in the tone - "sure IR has done this a bazillion times over and a bazillion times better, but Deva is the one delivering the goods now", it would seem more objective on your part. That is not so. You pick out a handful of hits of Deva from the present and set it up against a handful of copies from IR and claim it to be fair ! I don't see how !
  
  You have been very objective, Udhaya. Nobody can deny that. But nobody is always objective. In fact, I take pride in the fact that I can go beyond objectivity and enjoy partisanship once in a while. I can enjoy it because I control it all of the time. Yet another implementation of objectivity would be when a person admits that he is driven by something other than reason once in a while. To preserve the truth, you have to believe in it first. If the unpopular is objective, it does not automatically disqualify the popular from being so too !
  
  As for friends and fans, I think the admiration is mutual. It was just an expression that I was using to point out RameshB's misguided notion of objectivity.
  
  Truthfully yours,
  Srinath
  
  
• From: rameshb (@ interlock.itthartford.com) on: Wed Jan 27 17:37:13 EST 1999
  
  Mr.srinath
  I am not having any misguided notion of objectivity. I think you want to give your own definition of the word and is trying to misguide me. Look in to the meaning of the word in any source you have , if you have conscience you will understand it. Everyone has their own objectives and they are supposed to stick to that. You call it 'standard', 'scale', 'guage' and i call it my 'expectations' and 'objectives'. It is just that you apply equally to all entities without any prejudice or double-standard. That is what ISO says , let me quote. If 'originality' is one of your standards then I already said what you can do with DEVA. I think this explaination is sufficient enough for now . Donot expect me to add originality in the list of my objectives for songs as I cannot apply it to any MD! Nobody is clean 100%
  
  

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