Topic started by Srikanth (@ passport.proxy.lucent.com) on Mon Sep 15 10:23:15 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.
Any new album by A. R. Rahman generates lot of buzz. Share some of it here. Review, discuss or comment on ARR's new albums.
Check the ARR reviews page
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: srikanth (@ 12.5.10.153)
on: Thu Aug 30 10:25:43 EDT 2001
bharath, i guess you should also like kennyG
:) Bharath you are talking trends
based on stereo vision,Chennai
but Udhaya being in this country for a long long time now, is talking about trend changse in the US. In the east MJ and GM are some what famous.
Gm, that too just for few songs like Wakeme up and carelessWhispers. (infact chord progression of Careless whispers is some what same to hotel california, a mini inspirational copy there:)
and finally to honour the topic , arr is a different kind of musician than MJ.
MJ is more a show person. a Good dancer who sings well.
But we cannot say or accept mj and arr are similar. they are different class though inherited from the super class called great. artists :)
- From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4)
on: Thu Aug 30 10:52:23 EDT 2001
"mostly what ARR is doing is something MJ has done before! I find remarkable similarity in their style of sound"
Srikanth, do you think this is correct ?
- From: srikanth (@ 12.5.10.153)
on: Thu Aug 30 11:04:05 EDT 2001
considering something="sounds"
why even Madona comes to my mind. she is also unique in sounds (but once again she is also not a 100% composer , she has many ghosts who work behind the scenes.
considering something="Arrangements"
phil collins comes to my mind...
something="quality or width in the music"
yes, i use tell you about spectrum in arr music,
he is wide! and similar to many western musicians if not better.
in a nut shell,
The way arr works is like many western musicians here. but to discuss more, I like to know what is this "something" first?
kiru, I replied , hence next time when i ask you something you need to reply to me :)
:)
- From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230)
on: Thu Aug 30 11:26:54 EDT 2001
srikanth,
Do the Carnatic singers like Sudha Raghunathan, Unnikrishnan etc work the same way(no offense meant)?Does someone behind them composes the tune?
BTW,is there any carnatic singer who composes his/her own tunes?
- From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4)
on:
Srikanth..ask me about Java/EJB/blah blah ...I am comfortable with :) ..when it comes to music I only know to ask questions :)
Anyways, I think we are not giving due credits to MJ. I will go out on a limb and say this, though it is an exaggeration, there is some reason why he is called the king of POP and (I think Madonna is the queen, right ?). The structure of beat/rhythm oriented POP song was pioneered by MJ. This is what everybody else and including ARR are following. Since ARR belongs to the same school, I think, this is the reason MJ wants to encourage him.
Once this structure/formula is defined ARR can run circles around MJ. This is mainly because ARR can come up with melodies that to MJ will be unimaginable. This is not only a strength of ARR but also of the culture that he comes from. Still MJ is a pioneer in POP. (Yeah, after this pedophile issue, it is difficult for me to digest and continue to enjoy his music. Contemporary American society is making too many sick people).
- From: srikanth (@ 12.5.10.153)
on:
Trend,
You are talking about the basic structure of carnatic music!..Carntic music is something like jazz, improvisation on standards in jazz or a kriti in carnatic music, the base idea is often composed by someone from history. This is then improvised, which is also a form of composing ...on the spot composing...which is not easy IMO. There is also a format to be followed when this is done
People from this generation also composes lalgudi Jayaraman maharajapuram, prof ramanathan
why recently I saw a young artist in pittsburgh temple, she annonced it was her own thilala composition, which was awesome.
- From: srikanth (@ 12.5.10.153)
on: Thu Aug 30 11:47:58 EDT 2001
kiru good i will ask webmethods/java dont worry :)
btw; yes I also think we are not giving due credits to MJ. as far as US this is true, he is trashed for his other qualities.
I still hear "black or white" or the guitar solo in beatit , they are wonderful work of art.
...he is a great artist, no doubt about it...I will defend him if he is trashed for his music.
- From: Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12)
on: Thu Aug 30 12:01:03 EDT 2001
My definition of "sounds" (thro a novice's eye for srikanths pleasure!:) )might not be in consonance with the way u see it.
But "arrangment" is something where I think ARR may be similar to mike. the 14 epic track system which was talked abt so much in the early 90's is some thing arr may have adopted!(again! not alleging any "inspiration" just similarity)
so! lets say something = arrangement + variety + # of instruments( I see layers and layers of sound in a CD...thats how i am able to explain it I hope u understand). u can throw in the use of technology like the stereo effects (or surround effects) they use .
for e.g the "way u make me feel" has beats alternating in right and left speakers.
I agree if udhaya has been in the USA for 2 decaded he wud be aware the trends more than me. But I personally think overall europe has produced better artists than USA (IMHO!)
the US since is extremely local oriented! chances are less he wud know about the east of the atlantic! ( I am not saying he does not know but thats the nature of the people here)
//"MJ is more a show person. a Good dancer who sings well. "//
well! do u think there r ghosts who compose for MJ. I dont think it wud miss the credits if that were true.
plus with the # of law suites against mike I dont think he wud have survived if he did not compose it actually!
somehow "genesis" impresses me more than phil alone. I dunno why?
peter gabriel and phil collins were a good team! what a waste!
//"Bharath you are talking trends
based on stereo vision,Chennai "//
ha ha ! u underestimate a lot. I have never visited stereo vision. (yappapa yenna nakkalo! )
itheu velaiyattukku thaan solren begin :) :) {
alaipayuthey dialogue: "yengernthu sir varuthu ungalukku intha pechu, padikarcheva , pattam vangercheva illai music kathukarcheva!"
} itheu velaiyattukku thaan solren end :) :)
I have listened to "songbird" by Kenny G. liked it! but the rest did not catch on.
- From: Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12)
on:
//"Yeah, after this pedophile issue, it is difficult for me to digest and continue to enjoy his music. Contemporary American society is making too many sick people)."//
well! It is still an open question! because of his idiosyncracies it is easy to believe he cud be guilty.
If someone plotted and strategized to pull this stunt on MJ. He sure succeeded well!
if u see. only 1 party actually made the allgation and no other parent/child supported it and all MJ's bodyguards said were he was "different". no one even has circumstantial suspicion .
some times I wonder "innocent until proven guilty" holds at all.
like in the x-files. denial itself is 90% guilty verdict!
- From: srikanth (@ 12.5.10.153)
on:
bharath
underestimate, who me ? good! joke pa...:)
,....what ever you say.Still I maintain,
you are talking trends based on stereo vision,Chennai or might be someother shop!.....thats all...there is lots of difference on how you see arr and how others see ARR :):)
you are busy answering others with a "c" like remarks, why dont you post something yourself , i am not underestimating, we like to estimate you :)
btw: where do we all stand now in discussion?
- From: Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12)
on: Thu Aug 30 12:40:19 EDT 2001
i posted something on Indian & western intruments anga ungala aalaye kaanum!:-)(but 'composing'/'raagas' pathi thaan pesanumna then intha strict regulations nammala pass panna mudiyathu. fail ayiduven :-( )
it is incorrect that I estimate trends of ARR based on shops. i have rarely gone to shops to buy cassattes( vechirukara CD's ellam burnt vera !!!) the sales etc talk I get it from friends who own cassatte shops or who r distributors! Frankly my knowledge of the recording shops in chennai is limited and I still cant understand how u analyze trends thro shops.
sales and trends r different things!
srikanth moopanar mathiri etho solla vareenga theriyithu ana commit panna mattengaringa.
I wud have sincerely given u an explanation if i knew
1)why my analysis of arr differs from others and
2)how it differs and
3) what led u to this inference
i'd really like to know and i'd appreciate if u take the time to tell me!
- From: Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12)
on: Thu Aug 30 12:42:00 EDT 2001
//"btw: where do we all stand now in discussion"//
bharath say MJ= 100%
srikanth say "no no 99.7 % only"
kiru and udhaya say MJ = 99.1%
shyam say 99%.
appappa orey confusionappa!
- From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.231)
on: Thu Aug 30 12:43:22 EDT 2001
Whenever I listen to "Heal the World"(Definitely his best according to me) it makes me think how could a person who could sing such a song with so much feeling cud have any perversions.
Makes me wonder if this allegation is anything but a publicity stunt for extorting money?!!!
- From: srikanth (@ 12.5.10.153)
on: Thu Aug 30 13:08:37 EDT 2001
why my analysis of arr differs from others
--- you have never told a valid 'new' point about his music till date, mostly old news, I often feel you started to hear music just a little while ago but talks (or post) like you have known tamil film music to the core.
(i would say to cover this, you try to answer others :)
#2:
"I get it from friends who own cassatte shops or who r distributors" ---
this is what i meant...stero vision was a sample, it can ganapathy audio shop..who cares,
non musical input or data, (now dont tell me you dont know music etc...), i expect musical values.
This is the difference, like take kiru,
I can clearly identify i am talking to someone who knows to evaluate music based on "music" not on statistics from someone. (kiru, just a quote not to drag you in,sorry:)
i rest my case..:)
where do we all stand now in discussion
arr poi ippo srikanth vs bharath :)
- From: Udhaya (@ 63.89.188.205)
on: Thu Aug 30 13:27:05 EDT 2001
Srikanth,
The guitar riff from MJ's "Black or White" is ripped straight out of "Hot Blooded" by Foreigner. Listen to both and let me know what you think.
My roommate in college was a lead guitarist for a heavy metal band and we used to discuss about music into the wee hours; incidentally his brother is even a better guitarist(he spent a year in New York learning Jazz guitar)and knew ARR very well. ARR has jammed with these two at his studio and I hear he really is a whiz kid. My roommate's younger brother did the private album, "Oviyum" which failed largely because of Suresh Peters being the main singer and due to lack of marketing.
I also visit a CD shop and listen to CDs in the listening booths they have. The owner (another musician)became a good friend. My first entry into Jazz was when I stepped in this store to ask who played the sax in "Your Latest Trick" by Dire Straits. That was the beginning of my Jazz education (as a listener, not as a musician) and this interest has been growing ever since. This guy was big on Prince too like I was and we swapped stories about him.
Bharath,
Whoever told you Prince was poor-man's MJ does not know music, period. Rolling Stone called Prince "a pop Picasso". The term genius has been attached to his name quite often by other musicians from different genres like Arthur Garfunkel of Simon & Garfunkel and Stevie Wonder to name a few.
Prince's albums were written, produced and performed by Prince. He still did all his music until the 90s when everyone from English bands like "Fine Young Cannibals" to other local Minnesota musicians like "Time" and "Jesse Johnson" started aping his synth-drum sounds. So what did he do? He went out and got a live band to play his compositions. He's been consistantly innovating that record companies don't know how to label him anymore. When he signed a seven album deal with Sony for over 100 million he signed the contract and handed over the tracks for the seven albums right there. Sony insisted for marketing reasons that they would only put it out one at a time with maybe a year's interval between each album. Naturally Prince and Sony (just like George Michael and Sony) didn't get along. This stifled him for a few years in the mid 90s but somehow he had Virgin or some other company buy out his contract and is doing music hiw way now.
I saw Prince in concert at Shoreline Amphitheatre in California. He was spectacular. He played the piano, guitar, keyboards and finished his concert by jamming with Carlos Santana. He traverses many genres(like ARR) and is amazingly prolific. Well, I can catalogue Prince's prowess for pages, but I'll let you discover him on your own, or not.
I read music magazines for reviews of new albums and have never read MJ addressed as a musician. As a singer and performer, yes, but not as a musician; whereas, the others in my list have been recognized as musicians by critics and peers and it shows, at least to my ear.
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