Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

Kaviyarasu Kannadasan Vs Kaviyarasu Vairamuthu

Topic started by mannAru (@ ns.arraycomm.com) on Fri Jan 16 22:33:09 EST 1998.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: puba (@ ) on: Wed May 9 11:11:05 EDT 2001
  
  hi! kannadasan oru thirkathesi.
  kavinyargalakkellam oru munnodi.
  avar idatthai yarum pidikka mudiyaathu
  don't compare him with any one.
  
  
• From: mahabs (@ 203.197.138.165) on: Thu May 10 11:25:17 EDT 2001
  
  i like the comment of saitan. hi hi.
  
  imo, both are not very good poets. however, as lyricists in tfm, they have done a good job. kd is more versatile. vm is very good (in fact better than kd) in writing love lyrics.
  
  one can admire kd about his personal life. he is somewhat like m.r.radha. but, vm is just a sombu in polytics.
  
  mahabs
  
  
• From: unmaivilambi (@ 63.75.49.120) on: Thu May 10 15:07:37 EDT 2001
  
  KD wrote good lyrics mainly targetted at human relationship. VM has done everything ranging from love to technology and has a knack of being in tune with the changing times. Even the acclaimed Sivaji who has seen both the works has said VM is better then KD. No questions about that.
  
  
• From: bb (@ 216.217.80.201) on: Thu May 10 19:31:50 EDT 2001
  
  Sivaji said VM is better than KD? When was that?
  
  
• From: Rahulan Sitharthan (@ ) on: Sat May 26 04:23:40 EDT 2001
  
  Hello folks,
  Mr bb, Sivaji said that during Mid-1998 in a Vizha in Singapore; Check out June/July 1998 issues of kumudham/Kungumam for that.
  
  First of all, we have to decide whether we are comparing the Poetic Capabilities of Kanndasan & Vairamuthu (or) just Lyrics written by them.
  
  Definitely, people who have criticised Vairamuthu here, have not read even a SINGLE Kavithai Thokuppu written by him like,
  - Thiruthi Ezhuthiya Theerpugal
  - Intha Pookkal Virpanaikku Alla
  - Kavirajan kathai
  - Thanneer Desam ( AWESOME, this one )
  - Peiyyanap Peiyyum Mazhai
  - Thamizhukku Niram Undu
  
  and it goes on.
  
  1. Vairamuthu has more social/cultural consciousness than Kannadasan
  2. kannadasan could not write Fol songs as good/credible/real as Vairamuthu has done
  ex: Thanjavuru Mannu
  Porale Ponnu Thaiyi etc.
  3. Vairamuthu introduces freshness and his Neo-classical way of Metaphors/Similes (Uvamai & Uruvagam) revolutionizes the literary plane itself.
  4. People without any taste/knowledge about poetry/literature/ideology can excuse themselves from this discussion group.
  5. Vairamuthu is alive and vibes with the CONTEMPORARY society that he lives in. Everything from an Asteroid-Hit(Swift-turtle) possibility on earth, Sun going into an Red Giant phase(Astrophysics), and lives of ants become the Core of his poetry and lyrics; Kannadasan lived/ wanted to live as far away from real Life as possible; Kannadasan was a hallucinogen to the Tamil society,like Morphine or nicotine or ganja, whatever u call it.
  
  6. I'm forced to say this; According to my reasearch on Kannadsan Flag-bearers all they ever say is , "Thathuvam"; Good heavens - to these guys, "Thathuvam" means "Oppari" and "Izhavu pattu", i suppose. Kannadasan was amaster of lamentation and crest-falleness; Whereas, variamuthu- His very name , Invokes "Hope","fearlessness","freedom" and "Rebellion".
  
  7. Since, kannadasan wrote "Arthamulla Indhu matham", every damn idiot- who does not even know what a syllable or phoenetics - is, rushes to defend him. Since, All his life Vairamuthu has stood for Rationalism and Dravidian roots - he his being Maligned and averred. This is Obvious.
  
  Remember, Vairamuthu, IS the ONE and ONLY lyricist whos has Bagged 4 national Awards for Lyrics EVER in Indian Film Industry.
  
  "Kaviperarasu" Vairamuthu could even be awarded an International Award , for his literary acumen and contribution to Thamizh kavithai and paadalgal.
  So, Folks be Honest in your Judgements and criticism;
  ' Vaanam Nirantharam
  Kaatru Nirantharam
  Prabanjam Nirantharam
  Kavithai Nirantharam'
  
  "Endrendrum Vairamuthu Nirantharam - Thamizhar Vaazhvil, Varalattril, Vettriyil "
  
  I expect and welcome HEALTHY, Sagacious and INFORMED discussion on my response.
  
  Nandri! Vazhga, Valarga.!!
  
  
• From: Anand (@ 210.212.249.54) on: Sat May 26 06:20:21 EDT 2001
  
  Dear Rahulan Sitharthan,
  Iam very sure that u r not from India.....If Vairamuthu wrote better folkies than KD means it doesnt mean he is the best folky writer...
  Thanjavuru Mannu ,Porale Ponnu Thaiyi irandumey oru muzhu naattu padal kidayathu...ithai naan anitharami solluven...yen endral naan antha soozhalil piranthu valarnthavan
  
  Ungalukku theriyuma...Kavingargal yaavarum karpanaiyil irupavargal.....avargal nigazhvai yeluthinal...engho thavaru endru artham....athargaha naan nigazhvai yezhuthum kavingarai kurai sollavillai...
  
  KD avarghalum yaaravathu arasiyal vathi thodarbu vaithu peram pesi iruthal oru velai naanghu enna yettu viruthey vanghirukalam...
  
  Yenakku therintha varai VM yezhuthuvathu vasanam...naan kandipai athai vasana kavithai yendru othu kollamatten..yen endral ondru vasanam irukka vendum...allathu kavithai iruka vendum....
  
  
• From: tej chordia (@ 203.197.133.135) on: Sat May 26 07:35:59 EDT 2001
  
  600079
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.53) on: Sun May 27 01:40:55 EDT 2001
  
  Well...Rahulan Sitharthan...with all respects to VM and KD..IMHO Kannnadasan's lyrics were clear and easily understandable...VM too had fantastic prose..but I don't find it so inspiring as KD's songs...sorry but this is IMHO...
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.53) on: Sun May 27 01:42:47 EDT 2001
  
  ...And I don't think awards alone are a judge of real talent...if that was the case why are there so many unsung heroes and posthumously recognized geniuses...
  
  
• From: KN Srinivasan (@ ) on: Tue Jul 24 17:08:38 EDT 2001
  
  I think Rahulan Sitharthan must be either a relative or PRO of VM. It is undoubtedly acclaimed that most of the philosophies propounded by world famous philosophers have been capsuled and simplified in KDs poetry and prose for the layman. As regard to the similies KD makes realistic similies easily graspable by the folks. VM is a good poet of today's youth who are inclined to western passions and who wants to forget the good old philosophies and master piece poetries of yester years. None could dispute the fact that KD has touched the entire facets of life and human relationships. His ARTHAMULLA INTHUMATHAM is still repeatedly read by many as a Text of moral relevance. Vairamuthu's poetic pieces are more fictitious but good to attract any reader. Read the poems of both and try to recollect and let them come from your bottom of the heart. It will be truly KDs poems that come out first. If you try to link KDs poems and lyrics with social circumstances and human relationships, it will definitely fit to the slot. KD's personal life made him write many spontaneous lyrics and not his much thought imagination.
  
  
• From: SAITAN (@ ce1.time.net.my) on: Thu Jul 26 14:57:34 EDT 2001
  
  vairamuthu tooki adupule podungeda. Kaluthaiku peyar Muthumalaiyam hehehe!!! sondhama kaviyarasu vairamuthunu vechukittan. poromboku
  
  
• From: g mauruthi (@ 203.197.156.66) on: Wed Aug 1 00:59:00 EDT 2001
  
  Making relistic songs easily graspable by common man does not mean that it is the better one...
  
  I think VM is the best as he has variety.
  
  VM:KD is like ARR:IR
  
  Just listen anandam song in Indian
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ atlwebproxy2.core.hp.com) on: Wed Aug 1 01:56:29 EDT 2001
  
  when making common man to understand tough philosophies is not a great thing then using pudhukavidhai paani is also not a great thing.
  
  we all have a wrong notion that writing in PUDHUKAVIDHAI paani is variety. IMHO it is just a different paani assumed by VM from that of KD's.
  
  To explain it let me take the much liked example of TFM. ARR introduced/assumed hi-tech music(digitised sound etc) in TFM. Hence can we say him better than IR/MSV? No, the thing is, of all MDs came during and after IR/MSV ARR followed a different trend. This just shows that ARR is a different composer. To claim him as a great one has to see his composition. Similarly VM adopted different style of lyrics writing; that itself doesn't make him a greater lyricist.
  
  
  1) KD had a lot of variety, vaiyiramuthu too has.
  
  2) KD's forte is writing lyrics in simple terms without too much abstract-imagination whereas VM's forte is writing with much of abstract-imagination.
  
  Now it is upto the individual to think about who is better, if at one needs to.
  
  
• From: G.Ragavan (@ 164.164.94.115) on: Wed Aug 1 03:18:24 EDT 2001
  
  It is really not correct to compare two artists of two different periods.
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.183) on: Wed Aug 1 13:20:46 EDT 2001
  
  >>>1) KD had a lot of variety, vaiyiramuthu too has.
  
  2) KD's forte is writing lyrics in simple terms without too much abstract-imagination whereas VM's forte is writing with much of abstract-imagination.
  
  Now it is upto the individual to think about who is better, if at one needs to.
  
  GOOD EXPLANATIONS...!!!!
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.183) on: Wed Aug 1 13:21:48 EDT 2001
  
  >>>1) KD had a lot of variety, vaiyiramuthu too has.
  
  2) KD's forte is writing lyrics in simple terms without too much abstract-imagination whereas VM's forte is writing with much of abstract-imagination.
  
  Now it is upto the individual to think about who is better, if at one needs to.
  
  GOOD EXPLANATIONS...!!!!
  
  
• From: ganesan (@ 203.197.131.152) on: Mon Aug 6 22:53:38 EDT 2001
  
  Hi friends
  
  Looking forward to chatting with all of you
  
  
  
• From: ganesan (@ 203.197.129.149) on: Thu Aug 9 15:25:39 EDT 2001
  
  Hi friends
  
  At the outset I would like to redraw the parameters for discussion as I feel that the topic has veered off its course a bit. I would also like to add some of my observations before getting into the actual topic.
  
  The argument should be who is the better lyricist, given that the discussion is carried in tfm portal. Any one who wants to compare the general poetic abilities or the tamil scholarship of KD and VM should choose (or create) an appropriate portal for that purpose. Therefore let us not discuss KD'S Arthamulla Inthumathan or VM'S other works in this forum and confine our discussion to their film songs.
  
  I would like to underline here the difference between poetry and film song. The former is certainly a very difficult task which comes naturally only to a few. However, at least in the case of poetry , there is a spontaneity in the sense that you can write whatever impacts you. However, in the case of a film song the lyricist has to relate to the given film and particularly the situation and create an appropriate song . In the process he also has to adjust to the tune while not losing out on the content. This is thousand times a more difficult task than writing poetry. This was particularly true during the golden age of tamil film music when most of the songs, even love songs, had to carry some meaning that applied to the particular context in that film. In short, most of KD'S songs are 'film specific' and within the film 'situation specific' so that switching of songs between films or even the sequence within a film is not possible in most cases. Whereas, in the case of VM, given the present trend in the industry most of the songs are mere interludes, where the hero and the heroine join with a big group and sing a song which need not have any relevance to the situation and as such the songs can be switched very easily within a film and between films. If a difficulty scale for creating a film song were to be used , a film specific and situation specific song would have to be given a much greater weightage than a general song. KD will score heavily over VM on this aspect. This can be dealt with in detail later.
  
  Let us also not try to arrive at conclusions based on awards or conferment of titles. Sivaji, of all people, never won the Best actor award while MGR got it. Even the most ardent of MGR Fans will agree that Sivaji was a much better actor than MGR. Further even when Sivaji got the Cairo award for Kattabomman he did not get the Natioanl award here. Generally the south got a raw deal during that period.. Also , because of the proliferation of TV Channels in the present day world any performance gets far more projection than a similar performance of the earlier era.
  
  In general , both the old song fans ( I will refer to them as 'OF' hereafter) and new song fans ('NF') have a bias. They do not attempt to get to know the contributions of the other side. However, at least in the case of 'OF' they have some idea of the other side not necessarily by choice but by force as they cannot escape the new songs. But the 'NF' do not have that necessity and are therefore more ignorant of the other side. It is this ignorance which emboldens someone like 'rahulan sitharthan' to claim that KD is noted only for his opparis. There is not a facet of life or emotion that KD has not handled in his songs. I can reel off a number of examples to prove my point . However I am deliberately not doing it here because if he is aware of the fact and still made the claim there is no point in arguing with him. On the other hand if he is really ignorant, as I presume he is, it is like discussing music with a deaf person. It will not serve any purpose. I will however be comparing KD and VM on this aspect later.
  
  To me an ideal film song is one where the tune, orchestration and the singer(s) voice(s) do not dominate but create the appropriate platform and serve as a vehicle for projecting the song's verses and the verses themselves unobtrusively convey the thought In this context I find people while discussing the command over language commending the use of flowery language. The ultimate form of any art or game is simple. Watch Tendulkar when he bats. You will be witnessing a totally uncomplicated game Even imagine your own school/college days. When you had prepared thoroughly you were able to write in simple language. When the preparation was inadequate you resorted to flowery language in an attempt to compensate for insufficient subject matter. When the thought underlying the song is strong and the command over the language is absolute you do not need flowery language.An ideal example of this is 'SILAR SIRIPPAR' in Pavamannippu. Sivaji comes to know that Rajamma is his mother but is unable to reveal his identity because of circumstances. See how well the situation is portrayed using the simplest of words
  
  silar sirippar silar azhuvar
  naan sirithukonde azhukindren
  
  paasam nenjil mothum
  andha paadhaiai bedhangal moodum
  uravai enni sirikkindren
  urimai illamal azhukindren
  
  karunai pongum ullam
  athu kadavul vaazhum illam
  karunai maranthe vazhkindrar
  kadavulai thedi alaikindrar
  
  kaalam orunal maarum
  nam kavalaikal yaavum theerum
  varuvadhai enni sirikkindren
  vandhadhai enni azhukindren
  
  Well the writeup is getting too lengthy. I will terminate here. I plan to elaborate on some of the above points as also discuss other aspects in subsequent contributions.
  
  bye for now
  
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ a020-0145.snfc.splitrock.net) on: Thu Aug 9 16:22:44 EDT 2001
  
  Ganesan, good observation on the 'situation specific' stuff. It's true that even love duets where situation specific those days, atleast in most cases.
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments