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Western & Indian

Topic started by Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on Thu Aug 23 17:21:47 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I have seen the following comments a lot of times in this DF.

"the instruments used are western" .... "This song is like "western music" " etc..

I want to know, what is the definition of tamil sounding music and what are tamil instruments? I asked this question to a well know lyricist and he asked me to look up "silapathigaram" for the answer. I dont think he was trying to answer my question.

Among the instruments that have been used in the last 4 decades by tfm MD's I think a majority of instruments were western.

So what is the subtelity that classifies music as "western" and "Indian"? Is it the instruments being used or the carnautic/tamil folk touch the song gets?

for e.g I wud say guitar, violin, flute, drums etc as western instruments and tabala as Indian (although i dunno if its tamilian) ------ to shatter some myths about the western/indian definitions.

so as an educative purpose it would be nice if people gave an account of how much tamilian has tfm been for the past 3-4 decades. and shed some light on what attribute classifies a musical score as tamilian/western.

I am more interested in tamilain than Indian.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: KS (@ 165.122.128.128) on: Thu Sep 6 16:22:41 EDT 2001
  
  Is it surprising that pop/rock/rap and other genres don’t evoke that devotional feelings within us - Indians!?:-)
  
  Isn’t it surprising the way the majority of us are ready to follow the western culture without even realizing or being a bit curious as to what is in store for them...without thinking about the after effects!? But then, the same intelligent lot comes up with all sorts of questions if their elders or others ask them to follow the damned Indian culture and that it has more good to offer.
  
  They will follow the former just for the heck of it. But they want to be fully convinced and guaranteed about the good the second is going to offer…this, without even wanting to put in the minimal of efforts!!
  :((
  
  
• From: UV (@ 134.113.203.137) on: Thu Sep 6 16:45:45 EDT 2001
  
  Trend and Bharath
  Thanks for your compliments.
  the drum loop i programmed thro
  a free software called HammedHead Rthym station
  but you cant do much with that since most of it are dance/trance beats. I need to buy some solid sound modules to get good variations.
  
  
• From: arun_uk (@ 195.99.125.204) on: Thu Sep 6 17:03:29 EDT 2001
  
  KS,
  I agree with your comments regarding IR's handling of western music in his own unique way. I believe that this does not pertain only to WCM. All his songs of western style certainly have an air of indian flavour to them. All his beats notes and rhythm reflect an individuality. This is in direct contrast to almost all other contemporary MD's.
  
  
• From: KS (@ 165.122.128.128) on: Thu Sep 6 17:11:03 EDT 2001
  
  read "what is in store for them..."
  as "what is in store for us..."
  
  
• From: KS (@ 165.122.128.128) on: Thu Sep 6 17:40:45 EDT 2001
  
  Yes arun. true.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Fri Sep 7 10:49:23 EDT 2001
  
  NCR,
  You mentioned Indian music is integration of rAgam, thAlam and padam. Can you elaborate what you mean by 'padam' ?
  
  
• From: NCR (@ 206.30.30.2) on: Fri Sep 7 11:57:46 EDT 2001
  
  Kiru the following defines the three words.
  
  RAGAM :Free improvisation of pure melody(alapana) based on swaras without rhythm in successive melodic phases, quite within the stipulated framework of the raga with its arohana & avarohana, i.e., ascending & descending scales. Each raga has all the seven or six or five notes in varying combinations - called sampoorna, audava-shadava, etc & enjoys a distinct 'raga swarupa'.
  
  Carnatic music enjoys the most systematised raga-melodic structures. Hence called "Ranjayatee iti ragah".
  
  TALA :Rhythm. Time-cycle containing one or more sub-time measures. There are 128 talas. Each is a rhythmic arrangement of beats, etc., in cycles.
  
  PADA, JAVALI :Modern padams depict musical forms best suited to bring out the infinite captivating graces. Javalis slightly differ from padas in its erotic content.
  
  Hope following thing is more elaborate:
  
  Ragam-tanam-pallavi is considered the piece de resistance of a Carnatic music kutcheri. Pallavi-s are set up, of course, not by composers but by performing musicians. Musicians of Tamil Nadu have, ever since concert music came into vogue, contributed a plethora of pallavi-s to the repertoire. But even earlier, in the 19th century, there were musical stalwarts known for their specialisation in creating and rendering pallavi-s.
  
  The post-pallavi segment of Carnatic music concerts, especially those presented in Tamil Nadu, feature other types of composition, mostly in Tamil. These are drawn from works like Tevaram, Divya Prabandham, Rama Natakam, Nauka Charitram, and Tiruppugazh, as well as from the numerous songs composed by others, including pada-s and javali-s and kavadichindu-s.
  
  The genre of songs called pada, soaked in sringara bhakti, came into vogue at least during the 16th century AD. Such songs took birth, influenced by the Sangam classic Ahananooru, the verses of which are replete with sringara rasa. The term pada is ohen loosely used. The sringara sankeertana-s of Annamacharya and his descendants, according to some writers, are pada-s. Similarly, the devarnama-s of Purandaradasa are also termed as pada-s. The pada with an erotic content is said to have gained currency thanks to the compositions of Kshetragna of Mowa and Sarangapani of Karvetinagar. As far as the Tamil country is concemed, Muthu Tandavar of Seerkazhi, a contemporary of Kshetragna, composed many pada-s. Inspired by them, Tanjavur Vasudeva Kavi, Kavi Kunjara Bharati, Vaitheeswarankail Subbarama Iyer, Ghanam Krishna Iyer, Mazhavarayanendal Chidambara Bharati, Chettipattanam Cheenawa and some others composed pada-s and then have become popular.
  
  Based on the pada-s, pada vama-s for Bharatanatyam came into existence, usurping the role of swarajeti-s. The pada vama-s of the Tanjavur Quartet-- Chinniah, Ponniah, Sivanandam and Vadivelu-- are still popular in the field of dance.
  
  The Tanjavar Quartet composed as well a rich cascade of tana vama-s, kriti-s, pada-s, javali-s and tillanas. Though their compositions are either in Telugu or Tamil, they themselves were Tamils.
  
  The origin of javali, according to some scholars, is traceable to Karnataka. The contribution by way of this musical form, of Tanjavur Chinniah and his brothers, Patnam Subrahmania Iyer, Dhammapuri Subbaraya Iyer, Ramanathapuram Srinivasa Iyengar and Tiruppanendal Pattabhiramawa, is remarkable. The bulk of the songs of the genre called javali is in Telugu but many of these composers lived in Tamil Nadu.
  
  
• From: NCR (@ 206.30.30.2) on: Fri Sep 7 12:00:10 EDT 2001
  
  Kiru I posted the above from the following site.
  http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5180/tnmusic1.html
  
  
• From: mahabs (@ 203.197.138.163) on: Sat Sep 8 11:28:08 EDT 2001
  
  hi ncr
  
  thanks for your postings. you seem to know a lot. may i ask you a q.? after thevaram, a 12th century effort, why it ook such a long time, almost upto 17th century, for our music to grow?
  
  in mogamul (a novel by thi. janakiraman) it is mentioned that hindustani singers have more control over their voice. is that true?
  
  anbudan
  
  mahabs
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.69) on: Sat Sep 8 13:07:38 EDT 2001
  
  Digression :
  
  UV
  
  If you have tried Hammerhead..the creator Bram Bos has also created a sequencing software called Tuareg - it is very easy to use. It also comes with rapid rhythm and bass groove producing modules and best of all there is a free version. Check out www.tuareg.com
  BTW am downloading your Hey Govinda...will review it !
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.69) on: Sat Sep 8 13:11:03 EDT 2001
  
  Digression :
  You can check out some of my compositions using Tuareg :
  www.mp3.com/cosmicians
  1. Dance of Shiva 2. Keep on Moving 3. Dawn to Dusk
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.66) on: Sat Sep 8 13:20:21 EDT 2001
  
  UV..sorry the link for tuareg is www.brambos.com
  
  
• From: UV (@ 138.88.94.252) on: Sat Sep 8 17:23:38 EDT 2001
  
  Thanks cosmician listening to your compositions now. I also have posted my new composition 'Salute to the Mother' at the amatuer composers page check that one also.
  Incidentally i have also a have song called as Dancing with Shiva great song name isnt it.
  will check out the software.
  
  Ganesh
  
  
• From: UV (@ 138.88.94.252) on: Sat Sep 8 17:30:54 EDT 2001
  
  Dance of shiva is very nice,and i like the groove
  'Umesh' sounds like Malayalee(but i may be wrong)
  if you are,can you write malayalam lyrics for me ?!
  And check out my other songs also 'Hamsa' and 'Wild' in wild i have also used 'Ghatam' and 'Mridngam' fonts but the timing is not all that great in that song but do listen
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.53) on: Sun Sep 9 00:59:31 EDT 2001
  
  Hi UV...
  
  Listened to Hey Govinda..very peaceful renidition backed with a softly used urban/garage? beat...am listening to your other numbers now...actually I had listened to your other numbers in February 2001 I think when I started visiting newtfmpage and liked them a lot.."Premadona" is a cool name though !. I was too shy to post in the Amateur composers thread as I felt you all way above but now I'll try to participate actively :)
  Umesh..well you have revealed my id :)..I was brought up in Bangalore..so my dad named me Umesh...born in Tuticorin though..and I have written some English numbers and am looking forward to collaborate...we'll carrry this discussion in the Amateur's thread as we are already digressing too much here...I hope Tuareg allows you the freedom to create the kind of grooves you are looking for (I am not a Tureg salesman ;) but it was the first music software that I found very easy to use :)
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.53) on: Sun Sep 9 01:17:24 EDT 2001
  
  UV...Salute to Mother has a very meditative beginning and develops very weil....are you going to release any albums soon ?
  
  

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