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Why Raja did not introduce any
new Singers like AR.AR has introduced many new voices,
(Infact Raja did use Hariharan's voice)

Topic started by SRIKANTH (@ 158.minneapolis-06.mn.dial-access.att.net) on Wed Dec 24 16:02:56 EST 1997.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: V (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Tue Dec 29 16:10:03 EST 1998
  
  Introducing new singers is definitely a welcome trend, but doing so indiscriminately is not. These days introducing new singers seems to have become a fad. Things have reached a stage where singers are being used without any regard to whether their voices suit the situation or the artiste who is lip-synching. I must say that IR and ARR are both guilty of this practice today. This takes away the merit of having introduced new voices in the first place, and also deprives the newcomers of a chance to showcase their talents appropriately.
  
  
• From: V (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Tue Dec 29 16:14:39 EST 1998
  
  Neels,
  IMO, Sunanda has been used most effectively by S. A. Rajkumar. I feel that he has given her the most scope among MDs to show her talents. It's a pity that she did'nt last long.
  
  Funny, is'nt it, that singers patronized by successful MDs also become successful ?
  
  
• From: Shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Tue Dec 29 23:19:25 EST 1998
  
  V r u in MIEL????
  
  
• From: Shanmugam Murugappan (@ 208.236.83.16) on: Wed Dec 30 15:35:01 EST 1998
  
  Hai,
  
  ARR has introduced so many singers no doubt. Of his introductions to TFM, Hariharan and Unni Krishnan are very good. But can you say Suresh Peters and G.V. Prakash (I don't know how this fellow was given so many songs. Must be because he is ARR's relative!!!) are anywhere near any singer introduced by IR? I will say Vadivelu did a very good job in the song
  
  "ettanaa irundhaal ettooru empaatta kaetkum pathanaa irundhaal pathooru empaatta paadum
  ada kuttayo nettayo rettayo othayo mothamaa kathaya pathu rooba irundhaa
  oorae rendu pattu pogum indha naadae rendun kettan aagum"
  
  Compare Vadivelu's voice in this song with the voices of Suresh Peters and G.V.Prakash in the song "chikku bukku chikku bukku railu" ('Gentleman'). IMO, Vadivelu's voice was better.
  
  That song suited Vadivelu's voice, I believe. IR was reasonable in asking Vadivelu to sing that song. But I don't think Rajni did a good job in "adikkudhu kuliru" song. But, even that was better than "paalakkaattu machaanukku" song ('May Maadham').
  
  Oh God, this duo (Suresh Peters and G.V.Prakash) is deadly(?!). I don't know if they will continue to torment TFM. If so, then GOD SAVE TFM.
  
  
• From: V (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Wed Dec 30 21:05:34 EST 1998
  
  Shanmugam,
  Suresh Peters and G. V. Prakash have'nt been singing for ARR in a while now (thankfully ?!), but then you have ARR himself singing in that nuNi naakku thamizh these days !
  
  Shankar,
  Ennai theriyaliya pa ? :-))
  
  
• From: nakkeeran (@ inet21.us.oracle.com) on: Thu Dec 31 13:16:56 EST 1998
  
  Yep! I agree! Take the following:
  
  'sungnayar kadhal enna sonadhu..' from colombus..
  
  It actually means 'Sani Gnayiru kaadhil enna sonnadhu?' ( or, that's what I thought! :-) ). Speaks more for the talent I guess!! But, what do we get from Sat TV VJ's these days? Man.. have you listened 'Uma' for pepsi ungal choice? Yuck!! :-(
  
  
  
• From: Shanmugam Murugappan (@ 208.236.83.16) on: Thu Dec 31 17:08:26 EST 1998
  
  Yes. ARR himself sings Thamizh songs as if he is just learning Thamizh. His pronounciation of some Thamizh words is horrible. He is not able to differentiate between lagaram, llagaram and zhagaram. Then, how can we expect him to correct other singers' (like UN or Ila Arun) pronounciation? Thamizh vaarthaigala kadichu mennu thuppidiraar. (Atleast his voice is tolerable compared to the likes of Deva). I am not able to get the lyrics of the song 'Columbus' yet. It goes like this (atleast this is what I heard)
  
  "Columbus Columbus vittaachu leaveu
  kondaada kandu pudichu konda oru theevu
  leaveu leaveu leaveu... vendum pudhiya
  theevu theevu theevu...
  
  sani gniyayiru en kaadhil sonnadhu ennadhu
  machine ellam manidhargalaaga solludhu
  kollum aanavam odum aayiram - ????
  paasi pattini dirty politics - ????*
  pollution (illa confusiona illa illusiona) edhum pugundhu vidaadha theevu vendum tharuvaayaa... Columbus
  
  ???? - I really don't know whether these are the words... but this is what I (and some of my friends also) heard.
  
  ????* - he wants to say 'pasi' but he actually says 'paasi'
  
  The song continues
  
  "vaaram aindhu naal viyarvayil ullaikka
  vaaram iru naal iyarakayai rasikka
  veesum kaatraai maari malargalai kollai adi
  manasukku vellai adi
  meendum pillai aavom malarodu aadi
  paravayin siragai vaadagaikku kidaithaal
  udalukkul poruthi parandhu vidu
  paravaigal edharkum passport illai
  kandangalai thaandi parandhu vidu
  indru oyvudhaanae vendum
  aanal oyndhu povadhillai
  indru ----aana meenai polae neendhalaam... Columbus"
  
  rettaikkaal pookkal konjam paaru
  inimaeyum avasaramaaga loveraga maaru
  alai nuraiyai alli aval aadai seyyalaagaadhaa
  vinmeengalai killi enai porthi vaikkalaagaadhaa
  ingengum kaadhalai okdhaan kaadhali
  ------ kaadhalaa vidiyum varai kaadhali
  vaaram irunaal vaari anai"
  
  In the above song (not only in the above, in other songs also), notice ARR's usage of la, lla and zha. See how he pronounces 'uzhaikka' as 'ullaikka' and 'alaigall' as 'alaigal'. Nakkeeran, Sat TVla enna vandhaal enna? 'Pepsi' Uma enna pesinaal enaa? Indha maadhiri 'Thamizh kolai' paattu ellam hit aaguradhu TFMukku vandha saabak kedu. I don't think before the advent of ARR, any singer used to torment Thamizh words like this.
  
  Inspite of being a genius by himself and the willingness to try new things, ARR has failed miserably in the pronounciation of Thamizh words. I have deviated from the topic and I apologize for that. Just to express my feelings on such songs. I was able to understand some of the words in the above song only after hearing the song more than some 25 times.
  
  
• From: nakkeeran (@ inet32.us.oracle.com) on: Thu Dec 31 19:24:08 EST 1998
  
  Tamil has only na, ra, and la with more than one sound, while most other languages have ga, sa, tha, etc like that. ARR is probably trying to get rid of even these sounds, and thereby making Tamil very unique! We need exams like TOTMT, Test Of Tamil as Mother Tongue, similar to TOEFL, for choosing singers!!
  
  All my wishes!!
  
  
  
• From: Neels (@ 202.54.125.163) on: Fri Jan 1 07:39:44 EST 1999
  
  Well, TOTMT applies to the likes of ARR and Hariharan.
  But with most singers that sing for him, like Udit, Sonu, Sukhvinder and Ila Arun, the test has to be TOTFL (Test Of Tamil as a Foreign Language)!!!!!!!
  
  Neels
  
  
• From: aruvi (@ spc-isp-tor-uas-72-70.sprint.ca) on: Fri Jan 1 16:46:28 EST 1999
  
  Tamil is not ARR's mother tongue. He is a Malayalee. Hariharan who?
  
  
• From: nieli (@ client-151-197-121-208.bellatlantic.net) on: Sun Jan 3 18:54:52 EST 1999
  
  Hi
  Thanks to ARR, we have many
  new voices...otherwise we'd
  be bored with only a couple
  of same old voices...
  nieli
  
  
• From: dhan (@ dajal.legato.com) on: Sun Jan 3 22:42:50 EST 1999
  
  Aruvi,
  
  ARR father used to score muzik for malayalam films, I dont think he's a malayaali.
  
  
• From: aruvi (@ spc-isp-tor-uas-83-47.sprint.ca) on: Sun Jan 3 23:03:31 EST 1999
  
  Dhan
  I know he is.
  
  
• From: kiru(ba) (@ surf0004.sybase.com) on: Mon Jan 4 01:54:56 EST 1999
  
  I think we have talked about this earlier. Is this all part of an effort to get ARR more recognition ?? And make the IR fandom recognise his faults and weaknesses ??
  hmm.. in that case this is energy spent in the wrong direction. I think most IR fans are aware of his strengths and weaknesses already.
  
  ARR should (and probably will) get his recognition on his own merits of composition. He is already in the limelight and has all the oppportunities to garner the recognition he wants.
  
  - kiruba
  
  
• From: Shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Mon Jan 4 04:30:38 EST 1999
  
  ARR is a malayaLee. But then, all those la,La, zha are all available in amllu as well. I M Observation,the percentage of mallus pronouncing la,La and zha clearly is much higher than tamilians.
  HH is supposed to be from palghat.
  
  V(iswa),
  dhideernu pErai surikkinA odana kaNdu pidikka mudiyalai ;-)))
  
  
• From: Suresh (@ dixon.ge.com) on: Mon Jan 4 12:33:55 EST 1999
  
  I dont think there is anything wrong in the
  way you pronounce la,lla or zha. Why do you
  expect singers to pronounce it correctly when
  half the common people can't say it right ?
  TFM is not supposed to be some 'Muthamizh Mandram'
  where only proper Tamizh is to be spoken/sung.
  In a way it does make the song hummable to a lot
  of people !
  Also, when some of our Actors (eg.
  Vijayakanth) speaks without the correct pronunciation of la, lla and zha, you cant expect
  them to sing with the correct pronunciation.
  And when the hero speaks Madras tamil in the film, he cant sing in 'Sendhamizh'.
  
  Please comment.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ ss04.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Mon Jan 4 13:26:36 EST 1999
  
  Well, the complaints certainly are not about singing 'Pettai Rap' without the proper pronunciation. The emphasis is on good lyrics spoilt by poor rendition. A song sequence is a fantasy by itself in most movies. What does it matter if the lyrics are in classical thamizh ? To put it simply, if every hero, irrespective of whether he speaks Madras tamizh or pure tamizh, can sing, he might as well sing in pure tamizh. All said and done, the common man is not entitled to fame or money while speaking in pure Tamizh (or atleast something close). But the singers get paid and recognized. So what's wrong if one expects them to justify the adulation that they get. A singer's duty does not being and end with a sweet voice. Emoting is important, as is proper pronunciation (which, IMO, only contributes to emoting better). TFM need not be a 'Muthamizh Mandram' - it certainly need not be a T.P.Chatram either (a notorious slum in Madras).
  
  
• From: Shanmugam Murugappan (@ 208.236.83.26) on: Mon Jan 4 16:50:15 EST 1999
  
  Suresh,
  
  I second what Srinath has posted. ARR has used SPB to sing "minnalae..." song for Vineeth in the film "May Maadham". In the same film, he used Suresh Peters to sing "Paalakkaattu machaanukku" song for Vineeth. You can easily see the difference between the two songs. While SPB excelled in his pronounicaion, Suresh Peters sung as if a beggar was vomitting. Sorry for that harsh comment Suresh Peters fans, if any. But that was how I heard it. Thamizh kolai!!! Adhu thevayaa? Appadi dhaan andha paatta paada mudiyumaa? SenThamizhaa irukka vendaam. Atleast suthamaana vazhiyila Thamizh vaarthaigala ucharikkalam illaya? Of course, it depends very much on the situation. This song is very much similar to the way UN sang "Kuluvaalilae" in "Muthu" for Rajni. It didn't suit him, and more than that, the way UN pronounced Thamizh words were horrible. I agree ARR tried differently but unfortunately it failed. One can argue that "Kuluvaalilae" song's situation was such that it happens to be in Kerala. So a Thamizh song with a Malayalam accent would have been required (UN didn't sound in that way also - that is a different story). But, "palakkaattu machanukku" is one of the worst songs I have ever heard. Is that song required to be sung in such a way in that situation? Why should ARR sing that "Columbus" song in such a way in "Jeans"? He could have very well asked some guy who could pronounce Thamizh well. Maybe, you can argue that, Prashanth being an American citizen in that film, may not know to pronounce Thamizh words properly. But, in the same film, HH sings "anbae... anbae..." and UK sings "poovukkul olindhirukkum" for Prashanth. So, it is indeed wrong to sing Thamizh songs without knowing how to pronounce la, lla and zha. Of course, "Pettai Rap' is an exception.
  
  Aruvi,
  
  ARR is a Malayalee by birth. Agreed. But, I don't think that can be an excuse for bad pronounciation of Thamizh words. Mother tongue of PS is Telugu? But, she is able to pronounce Thamizh words properly.
  
  
• From: nakkeeran (@ inet21.us.oracle.com) on: Mon Jan 4 18:09:27 EST 1999
  
  Suresh,
  
  If pronunciation is not required for songs, why do we accept dubbing voices for actors/actresses? Some actresses sound like males and vice versa. But we dont like to hear'em on the screen, why? The reason is we always seemed to be wanting simma/kuyil kural for actors/actresses. If that norm was not maintained, we would've been punished by voices of Simran/Ramba/Devyani et al; like how we are with the songs! If we cannot stand natural voices of actresses, however masculine they are, there's nothing wrong in expecting a song to be in good tamil.
  
  Just wondering how it would've been if Suresh Peters was to dub for some actor in some movie!!!
  
  
  

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