Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

Non-filmy albums of Ilaiyaraja

Topic started by Padmanabhan Ganesan (@ igw2.merck.com) on Tue Jun 17 12:15:58 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Madhan (@ 202.41.117.100) on: Wed Jul 29 14:12:13 EDT 1998
  
  Dear Mr.Balu,
  
  IR never climbed a stage to show everybody that he had "authority" on Carnatic music -
  
  since, you boast yourselves about LITERACY in Carnatic music in your posting to PG , I have this to say - I had a formal two years training in Hinduatani Classical music 6 years back, in Hyderabad - I have friends who have taken training under Gurus like Madurai Mani, T.N.Seshagopalan, etc., for 14 - 16 years - all of us feel from whatever "little" we have gained from our "hearsay" on classical music that musically creative people need not have a good voice and vice- versa - it was IR's enthusiasm to give vent to his creativity , which saw him perform on stage.
  
  As for his strength in classical music, I recommend the "Ilayaraaja and the classical " series of 15 articles compiled by Lakshminarayan Srirangam Ramakrishnan , who happens to be very well versed in classical music -
  
  Now, please do not question IR's credibility as a creative artiste within the classical idiom -
  
  then, I would start asking about the credibility of artistes like KJ Yesudoss, who sometimes renders krithis quite carelessly on stage - why, even the great Maharajapuram Santhanam (MSNM), I was told by my Carnatic music literate friends was not all that creative in his renditions - little /No homework was done for his concerts.
  
  How about Kunnakkudi Vaidhyanathan ? - despite the immense gift he had, he misused music by giving distortions on stage -
  
  As for Semmangudi's statement, nobody claimed that Semmangudi showered praise on any particular composition of IR -
  
  "Indru varai,Ilaaiyaraajavai yellorum isai gyani yendru kooruvadhai kettirukkiraen - anaal indru dhaan yen avarukku indha pattam koduthhirukkiraargal yenbadhu purigiradhu; indha pattam ivarukku migavum poruthhamaana pattam yenbadhil sandhegamaey illai - ivaradhu isai pani melum thodara, vazhthigiraen" -
  
  THis is exactly what he said and it has been recorded in the cassette - Mandolin U.Srinivas Plays Illayaraaja's Classical Music released by AVM Audio - side : B, last five -- ten minutes.
  
  If you have any doubts, you may listen to the cassette yourself and then come back.
  
  But, calling PG carnatic music illiterate comes in bad taste and shows your incompetence.
  
  
  
• From: Nithin (@ nc36.pr.mcs.net) on: Wed Jul 29 16:43:17 EDT 1998
  
  Singing carnatic is a difficult proposition. If IR attempted to do so, then I have never heard anything more humble than this, that IR wanted to sing carnatic ragas before an enlightened audience. IR has not trained himself to be a performer like KJY or Balamuralikrishna. Everyone takes pride in the fact that Ilaiyaraja is a walking and living encyclopedia of most forms of music, including carnatic music. Can you expect such a storehouse to render music in his (its) own voice in a manner that is comparable to those vidwans who only practice singings a few ragas all their lives? I think, IR with his limited time and scope given to singing ragas perhaps gave an impromptu rendition of carnatic ragas. Would any vidwan dare entertain such a proposition even in his dreams? So, I think Balu need to view that 1995 performance in proper perspective and come up with a unbiased comment. What do you say, Balu?
  
  For his million fans, IR's any move or attempt at anything is a moment etched in gold in our hearts, but for the purists are critics, whose numbers BTW are reducing in numbers in relation to IR, IR may have to devote his time away from his usual work and practice focus on perfecting his vocal rendition of his ragas!!!
  
  For a question that keeps appearing here, I may add I could have enjoyed EVK as promised!! :)
  
  
• From: Mux (@ gatekeeperl.sdcl.org) on: Wed Jul 29 19:43:14 EDT 1998
  
  Hi guys,
  
  I dont want Balu to get the "perspective" ! That seems to me a requirement of tallest order difficult to accomplish by Balu Srinivasan.
  
  From what I see is going on in this thread - looking at Balu's comments -
  
  This is what I am reminded of - Do any of you guys remember all the crap that keeps going on in Carnatic circles called - Sangeetha Parampara - I hate that word. It should be replaced with Sangeetha Gnaanam. Thus it would avoid people to seek for their father in for support of their views you see :-). I am not able to get a clear flow of thoughts here as I feel frustrated over such blatant ignorance.
  
  There was not one word of constructive criticism of what happened at concert. Why ??? - Ignorance. Does'nt know what Raaga, what "trivial" technicality IR is talking about - BUT it should be crap because this guy does not look like a Carnatic musician, does not talk like a stereotyped Carnatic musician and does a lot of creative things - (These people are more tolerant to all these new raagas in praise of Jayalalitha etc. and other disgraces to the society).
  
  This is what the Sangeetha Sampradaya represents to a lot of people - No more creativity. Stop. It all belongs to only Thiagaraajar. Not us. We cannot improvise. We cannot think. No more individuality. Blame any changes and improvisations on the Sampradaya. Let us all lead a happy life Singing just hamsadwanis, kaanadas, etc. and all those lilting songs in those raagas, and no more second octave too. It should all start and end within the first octave. That is what brings in more crowd and you know people can identify with it too!!!.
  
  GET SOME OBJECTIVITY INTO OUR MUSIC PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
  
• From: Raja K Jana (@ 151.atlanta-34.ga.dial-access.att.net) on: Wed Jul 29 21:46:24 EDT 1998
  
  certainly ilayarAjA is an authority, just not in carnatic music, but in music. I was one of the guys to be present at panjhamughi performance in NG sabaa. Thiru Semmangudi, in the end, said "sandhEhamE illai, isaignyAni isaingnyAni dhAn". this may be in excess, but the praise is not misplaced. it is to appreciate a musician who has come from nowhere to the levels of professional carnatic musicians and perform on par with them.
  this is to foster carnatic music and not Mr Raja, and i think raja needs no more encomiums as he has achieved everything in life.
  
  Mr rAjA may have problms in singing, but, his authority in kinds of music, be it western classical, carnatic, folk, etc., cannot be questioned. As someone has quoted, Mr Balu should read Laxmi's "classical ilayaraja" for more "eye opening"
  
  Mr Balu--
  
  I listen to more of other MDs music now than Raja's nowadays. But, dont you ever try to talk about Mr Raja's authority in music, carnatic music, in particular. it is not just your father alone to fret like this, there are one hundred thousand such people around who are capable of doing such things....just criticise and do little.
  better light a candle than curse the darkness.
  
  Probably your father loves to listen to those guys who sing songs not able to understand what they sing.
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: badri raghavan (@ 206.103.12.125) on: Thu Jul 30 00:51:43 EDT 1998
  
  hi Mux & nithin,
  
  i can understand your ire at balu's statement but let that not lead u into a tirade against carnatic music. please do not conclude that vidwans know a few raagas which they keep repeating thro their entire life time. kindly do not belittle extremely talented artistes in order to elevate raja.
  
  sure it is an establishment which does not accept changes as fast as it should. but is this not true of everything we are seeing? have we accepted any other party other than dmk or admk in the last 30 odd years? has the country not repeatedly succumbed to pandering to the whims and fancies of the nehru dynasty? well one can go on and on.
  
  recognition of new compositions or raagas does not come instantly and more so if they come from a person who is not pure carnatic. it took 150 years for tyagaraja's kirtanas to become popular amongst the common public and even in that only a select few are popular.
  
  balu's statement about raja not being an authority on carnatic music can be debated but please do not condemn him. i also request balu thro this posting to exercise restraint when responding to criticism.
  
  
• From: Damodaran (@ proxy.qatar.net.qa) on: Thu Jul 30 04:57:19 EDT 1998
  
  Nanbargale,
  Please tell me where I can get 'India 24 hours' and 'Om' in chennai. Which is the best music shop. Please guide me.
  
  
• From: Mux (@ cx663654-a.pwy1.sdca.home.com) on: Fri Jul 31 18:22:58 EDT 1998
  
  Hi Badri,
  
  Thanks for the posting.
  
  I am certainly not trying to belittle all the vidwans and the carnatic music at all, AND I know I certainly do not have the credentials to do so.
  
  I am just voicing my feelings on the pretence and prejudices that run deep in it. Carnatic music these days seems to evolve based NOT on the demands of melody as such, but on a whole lot of prejudices.
  
  Please have a look at Krishna's theoretical discussions on Naayaki and Darbar and you will understand my point. If you have seen unnal mudiyum thambi you will really get to the wavelength I am talking about.
  
  I don't know why composing a song in a raga for Carnatic music by contemporaries is considered unconventional but composing thillanas is OK ??
  
  There are a lot of areas where things are so vague, I feel. For example if you look at standard reviews of a Carnatic music you would find no objective criticism, but will find so many flowery words like "sent us through a trance, it was like waterfall, light breeze etc."
  
  Why would not there be discussions like how the song was in a different pattern - giving a wholly new picture even though sticking to the same raga, how good the performer's imagination was when doing the manodharma part etc (in a techinical fashion), vadhi vivadhis etc, the different patterns in the thaalas etc ????
  
  I know a writer has to identify with a common layman, so cannot put in a lot of complexities., but when we have thousands of people who can perform and execute these things it should all be brought out in open to elevate the level of people listening to the level of performers and NOT be bogged down by people who feel insecure and thus do not like to be so much open to any experiments as such.
  
  You also would have been aware of so many such lame criticisms of IR when he tried to take the stage, not by the ignorants, but by so many who were at the helm of affairs in Carnatic music.
  
  I immediately could see this attitude in the posting , which is why I flared up.
  
  There is one aspect I would like to talk about. Apart from the fact that a song in a raga should have a basis, it is the way in which the scope of the raga is expanded that brings out the talent of the performer.
  
  
• From: k.r.ravi (@ 79.houston-06.tx.dial-access.att.net) on: Sat Aug 1 02:50:21 EDT 1998
  
  Mux..ur statement on..Objectivity to music was great.
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments