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Whatever happened to Illayaraja's symphony?

Topic started by Swaminathan N (@ infosys.inf.com) on Wed May 14 15:38:06 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Dude (@ 131.193.154.14) on: Mon Sep 22 18:02:54 EDT 2003
  
  Maddy,
  
  No offence, but I tend to disagree with you. I am a tamilian and I am a hardcore fan of ARR. There are millions of tamils who love ARR's music. In fact, ARR is himself a tamilian.
  
  Guys, let us not digress and make this a forum for pro-tamils vs. anti-tamils.
  
  Rajasaranam, I have forgiven you for your stupid blunders, you can post now... Or you still in hangover ;-) ???
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 170.146.91.6) on: Mon Sep 22 18:09:27 EDT 2003
  
  Dude,
  I like your attitude,
  
  Disagreement is always going to be there between people, but we should have a healthy argument
  
  When MD's are going to look at their job, We the people who are receiving it will look at it in a different way (i.e our satisfaction) though it is not the responsibility of the MD to do that, we take onus to question it.
  
  We should surely argue/counter argue, as long as it is not personal attacks or Nastiness.
  
  We should continue with the topic.
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 203.199.209.101) on: Tue Sep 23 06:13:08 EDT 2003
  
  Dude,
  
  ULLae VeLiyae(UV) songs are bad/vulgar?
  
  Are you saying the music is vulgar or the movie?
  
  These are the list of songs from UV:
  1) Aariraaro Paadum Ullam (Ilaiyaraaja)
  
  2) Kallaththanamaaga Kannam (Chitra.K.S,Chorus,Mano)
  
  3) Kandupidi Neethaaney (Balasubramaniam S.P.,Janaki. S.)
  
  4) Sakkara Katti Sakkara Katti Sandanapetti (Balasubramaniam S.P.,Janaki. S.)
  
  5) Solli Adikkirathu (Chorus,Mano)
  
  6) Uttalakadi Uttalakadi (Balasubramaniam S.P.,Chorus)
  
  [ courtesy Raajangahm.com ]
  
  None of the songs had vulgarity in it, AS FAR AS MUSIC IS CONCERNED. Yes the movie had a lot of vulgarity in scenes, dialogues and songs picturization. Infact "sakkarakkatti" is hailed as a beautiful duet fully based on a famous karnatic raaga. Rest of them could be taken as ordinary songs (as far as IR standards is concerned).
  
  Now coming to vulgar songs, yes as you say many mukkal munangal songs were tuned by him (a max of 100 nos?).
  
  The problem is that he has done around (800 x 5)4000 songs of which around 100 are mukkal munangal songs. So lets discount them even if they are original tunes and meritorious like fully complying to a raaga or a very good fusion.
  
  Next is around 1500 Run-of-the-mill(ROTM) songs. We discount them also. Remaining is about 1500 to 2000 good songs.
  
  Now lets take them as 1500 good songs. Isn't the number is mind bogling? That too even after giving around 3500 other songs of which we can say 2000 are rehashes (indeed a stringent no.).
  
  So we are left with 1500 good songs plus 1500 "not-liked" songs.
  
  Almost all of them are unique.
  
  BTW these counts has nothing to do with hits. These count differ from the count of his hit songs. IR Hit counts span across mukkal munangal songs to ROTM to good songs which is, say, 50% of his songs (around 2000 songs).
  
  
  Are these facts discountable?
  
  When should we start measuring a person as great (genius) or not? Just because a person scored 10 films and all are good would you call that person a genius? Then I would conclude that Balabarathy/Bharani/Ramesh vinaayakam are genius (NOM to them, i just wanted to say that its not right time to "measure" whether they are genius or not).
  
  A person has to score atleast 50 to 100 movies to say whether he is a great MD or not. And if a person has done heaps of work and still sustained a higher rate won't you consider that person as great/genius? Then whats wrong in saying that more no. of movies is a parameter for judging a person as genius/great? Consistency and sustainment is what we see here.
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 170.146.91.6) on: Tue Sep 23 10:50:34 EDT 2003
  
  Then whats wrong in saying that more no. of movies is a parameter for judging a person as genius/great?
  
  Kupps
  I dont agree on Quantity=Quality=Gr8ness parameter..
  Ex: I dont know why I have to do this, Kurt Kobain of Nirvana, Layne Staley of Alice in Chains are considered one among the gr8est in the Rock field, but the number of songs they wrote and played music to was very less. But what made them distinctive
  1. They were original
  2. They represented the Rocking community in a way that was followed by lot of people, lot of Adult alternative rock music got inspired from it. I can list the groups like Alice Cooper, Staind, Our lady in peace, Green Day..
  3. They were different.
  
  Comparing IR and ARR
  1. IR is Original and ARR is too in bringing about the same feel to TFM
  2. Lot of people got inspired from them
  3. They are different.
  
  You might ask me where is the difference. IR is basically a TFM person, who inherently wants to promote HIS music to the world.
  ARR on the otherhand, fuses western and wants to promote HIS music to TFM
  
  There is a fundamental difference in the approach
  
  Another difference I feel is IR's music is more geared towards TFM/South Indian Music that is appropriate for many situations and the people.
  
  ARR on the other hand believes (i guess) in Global music, for ex, he composes music so that he can reuse in other parts of the world. For ex, May-Madham is Love you hamesha, Jodi songs are from Hindi movies, the list goes on.
  
  Taking all this into account, Shakespeare wrote his plays for the English Audience, but has become a learning classic all over the world speaking English, Similarly i believe IR's music will(want to) be a learning classic for Music Community all over the world.
  
  So that is the thin line of difference between a Genius and a Gr8. I still think IR is a Genius Musician but a very bad Business man or very bad PR person but on the other hand, ARR is a gr8 Musician with a Genius Business mind and a gr8 PR..
  
  I consider Mahesh who made kuruthipunal and Nammavar is a gr8 MD.
  
  
• From: Vatsa (@ 160.83.32.14) on: Tue Sep 23 14:06:13 EDT 2003
  
  MIL,
  
  Thanks.
  
  Dude,
  
  Hope we get some sensible responses without any prejudice. I dont think its bad to have some "sexy" sounding songs. I would think "Meendum Meendum Vaa" or "Ayyo Pathikuchu" kind of stuff is good and within a limit. Infact, "Meendum Meendum" was one of the great songs by IR. The mukkal munagal gets out of limit like say "katti pudi katti pudi" then it goes the other way.
  
  Kupps,
  I dont agree quantity = genius, then deva is a genius. Its just the quality along with the ease with which is created makes one a genius. I remember a quote:
  Doing easy what others find difficult is talent;
  Doing what is impossible for talent is genius.
  
  Vatsa
  
  
• From: rajasaranam (@ 210.214.132.72) on: Tue Sep 23 14:56:35 EDT 2003
  
  MIL, Dude and Vatsa,
  
  IMO watever Kupps said is right. he never said that more no. of movies will make a person genius. he said more no. of quality music will make a person genius. there is no point in comparing Deva as he has too scored for 600+ movies.
  
  if we r going to list out best of IRs compositions and best of ARRs compostions we may come up with a figure like 2000 for IR and 100 for ARR. shudnt this give a winning edge for IR over ARR. that IR has taken pain in giving 2000 quality songs while ARR has given only 100 songs.
  
  i agree that quantity cannot be equated with quality. but when quality music is in huge quantity that is where we term him a genius.
  
  for example if V.anand is going to play against kasparov and win over him in one match and after that he retires frm the game. can we call him to be a genius chess player. no,it cant be, he has to prove his talent again and again and win as many matches as he can with consistency, only then we can approve him to be a genius.
  
  Dude,
  ......though i dont agree with the vulgarity part my claim is that the movie as wel as the songs were big hits.if u say UV as kuppai then BOYS too is kuppai.
  didnt u find my answer here. were u too in mabbu :-o
  
  
• From: Dude (@ 131.193.154.91) on: Tue Sep 23 15:46:28 EDT 2003
  
  Kupps: None of the songs had vulgarity in it, AS FAR AS MUSIC IS CONCERNED. Yes the movie had a lot of vulgarity in scenes, dialogues and songs picturization.
  
  You pulled it out of rajangham.com, but did you actually see the movie and watch the songs???
  
  Actually, when I saw the movie I had to appreciate the fact that IR had composed the songs exactly to match the situation. For example, when Parthiban hits the 'gilli' into aishwarya's t-shirt, the song goes 'solli adikarathu machi super-adi'...
  
  The sakkarakatti song, which you rave about too had the mukkal munagal sounds by the female.
  
  And Kupps, where did you pull out all these numbers from? 100 munagal songs, etc... Although I dont demand a very accurate number, but I think 100 is too less. And I dont agree with all the other numbers either.
  
  The point is, you accept that IR did compose vulgar songs with vulgar sounds.
  
  How many movies in the pre-IR period have such 'mukkal munagal' sounds? Only 1 or 2 songs comes to my mind, that too only when the situation demanded. It was only IR who introduced this cheap erotic sounds in TFM songs. What do you have to say to this???
  
  It is a good thing that ARR does not employ such cheap tricks to bring out the feeling of erotism in his songs. For example 'Hai rama,yeh kya hua'(sorry for the hindi song, but we are discussing ARR here...), 'Rakozhi rendum muzhichirukku', 'Sugam sugam vendum vendum', 'hayoo pathikichu' etc... It was only the usage of raagas, 'suitable' voices that sound sensous, not vulgar that made these songs convey the feeling of erotism.
  
  Too long a post already, will continue after a break :-D
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 203.199.209.101) on: Wed Sep 24 01:46:11 EDT 2003
  
  >>>>>>>
  Actually, when I saw the movie I had to appreciate the fact that IR had composed the songs exactly to match the situation. For example, when Parthiban hits the 'gilli' into aishwarya's t-shirt, the song goes 'solli adikarathu machi super-adi'...
  >>>>>>
  Only 1 or 2 songs comes to my mind, that too only when the situation demanded.
  >>>>
  And if a person has done heaps of work and still sustained a higher rate (OF QUALITY) won't you consider that person as great/genius? Then whats wrong in saying that more no. of movies is "A" parameter for judging a person as genius/great? CONSISTENCY AND SUSTAINMENT IS WHAT WE SEE HERE.
  <<<<<
  
  If we say consistency we mean the quality there when we talk about quantity, right.
  
  ------
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 203.199.209.101) on: Wed Sep 24 01:56:20 EDT 2003
  
  Sorry some weird thing happened in my post. Let me repost it.
  
  
  >>>>>>>
  Actually, when I saw the movie I had to appreciate the fact that IR had composed the songs exactly to match the situation. For example, when Parthiban hits the 'gilli' into aishwarya's t-shirt, the song goes 'solli adikarathu machi super-adi'...
  >>>>>>
  Only 1 or 2 songs comes to my mind, that too only when the situation demanded.
  >>>>
  And if a person has done heaps of work and still sustained a higher rate (OF QUALITY) won't you consider that person as great/genius? Then whats wrong in saying that more no. of movies is "A" parameter for judging a person as genius/great? CONSISTENCY AND SUSTAINMENT IS WHAT WE SEE HERE.
  <<<<<
  
  
  If we say consistency we mean the quality there when we talk about quantity, right.
  
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