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Whatever happened to Illayaraja's symphony?

Topic started by Swaminathan N (@ infosys.inf.com) on Wed May 14 15:38:06 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: UV (@ 134.113.203.137) on: Mon May 7 15:10:41 EDT 2001
  
  ARUN RAGHAVAN
  India got independence 50odd yrs back.
  And guys like you still under white man influence.
  Raja is not great just because some white folks say so. Get over it guys.
  Raja or ARR is great whether a white say or recognize it or not.
  Our Indian music is no less then western music understand,it has solid grammar and fundamentals.
  
  
• From: zimble_logic (@ 64.104.128.15) on: Wed May 9 05:10:38 EDT 2001
  
  UV,
  >>Raja is not great just because some white folks say so<<
  
  Nope it's not bcos white folks say so, it's bcos they are the ones who know WC better than our guys(whom will u ask abt yesudas' knowledge in ICM, Zubin mehta or madurai T N Seshagopalan ??)
  
  
• From: kavita (@ 202.9.161.68) on: Wed May 9 06:17:16 EDT 2001
  
  why nobody is checking the other side? that is checking the status of rajaa's symphony with royal philharmonic orchestra? a helping london tamil can do this.
  
  kavita
  
  
• From: white (@ 166.90.67.3) on: Wed May 9 12:22:00 EDT 2001
  
  all the modern musical instruments were created perfected by white guys, so pls let us not be narrow in our analysis. btw is Raja doing anything to release his sphony?
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Wed May 9 14:03:36 EDT 2001
  
  zimble_logic..you are right..But UV I think was reacting to a very common attitude amongst us. Also, I think WCM is good thing to add to our musical arsenal..Note ..the westerners are also learning from all over the place. So we cannot be left behind..
  
  
• From: R (@ 172.163.30.168) on: Wed May 9 16:22:39 EDT 2001
  
  People ..there was a radio programme in the SF bay area yesterday..the guitar expert Prasanna made some interesting observations about the awareness or otherwise of Carnatic music among the White junta ..! he said most of them ( but for a few academicians and real enthusiasts ) know only Hindustani music as indian CLASSICAL music and Carnatic music needs a big time promotion..IR can do his bit with the promotion - with his knowledge of Carnatic and WCM he could be the ideal one to bring about some awareness. his classical/carnatic based film scores would help a lot in this direction .and why is IR not doing any concert tours in the US/UK unlike many other half baked mds of bollywood who are promoted shamelessly as the ultimate flavour of india etc..?
  
  Btw, prasanna also said he has played some guitar for one of IR'S non film albums called 'moods of IR" does any one know where it is available...or is it already out under some other name ? pls shine ur torches guys..
  
  
• From: bb (@ 216.217.80.201) on: Wed May 9 17:38:15 EDT 2001
  
  moods of ir is a project of raajangahm.. aruL can say more on this, i guess.
  
  
• From: jv (@ 203.126.228.21) on: Tue May 15 06:27:55 EDT 2001
  
  I heard IR symphony is poor quality that is the reason IR refuse to release it. IR is smart by hiding the inefficient.
  
  
• From: Marc (@ 165.21.83.214) on: Tue May 15 07:18:06 EDT 2001
  
  IR 's Symphony is not of poor quality..But The whites have problem in recognizing an Indian ???
  
  
• From: raju (@ 62.6.129.120) on: Tue May 15 19:18:28 EDT 2001
  
  i am from london and know someone from the london sympony orchestra. in '91/92 i showed him a pic of Ir and the composer and he knew the composer. 2 years ago i asked abt this matter and he said the main problem would have been contractual rather than quality. latamang'r released a few albums with the halle orchestra and they were paid full dues and royalties.
  Ir has recently been courting musicians in hungary.maybe there is another proper reason apart from studio facilities bcs no way can the facilities in hungary be beter than india.
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Tue May 15 20:08:51 EDT 2001
  
  IR's symphony's problem lies in the word "Symphony" thats all.
  
  
• From: aruLaracan (@ 134.124.160.10) on: Wed May 16 13:47:54 EDT 2001
  
  swamiji: can you please elaborate?
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Wed May 16 13:57:34 EDT 2001
  
  Actually aruL I was just guessing here. I am sure when you compose music and call it a symphony, music critics around the world would dissect the composition and justify your calling it the symphony.
  Say for example, you make a totally different kind of Cake in the west, and call it a sponge cake, great chefs around the world would cut the cake into pieces, and see if it has the right amount of icing, sugar, size , shape etc. And if even one of them fall short or doesnt please them, they would protest against calling it a "sponge" cake. I am beginning to feel thats whats happened here. Critics feel his music doesn't qualify to be called a "symphony", and IR is adamant that it should be. Hence this long delay in its release.
  I remember reading in an IR site - when someone asked IR about his experiences with RPO...he said something to the effect "I died and went to heaven...sent back because there was a mistake.." I am not sure. So thats why I guessed this could be a problem.
  
  
• From: Anand (@ 192.11.221.116) on: Wed May 16 14:39:21 EDT 2001
  
  Swamiji,
  If that was the case, then John Scott who conducted it could have pointed it out when the score was analytically looked at RPO.
  I knew for sure that RPO went over the score a zillion times before they had accepted to play it.
  John scott is a top level conductor & he would'nt have consented to a half baked symphony.
  
  My guess is more of copyrights. IR could have sold the rights to some recording company who could be causing trouble. He must be owning the author's rights.
  
  
• From: aruLaracan (@ 134.124.159.71) on: Wed May 16 14:42:39 EDT 2001
  
  swamiji: you are correct. even john scott mentioned that ir was totally discouraged by the reviewers comments. he could have just mentioned symphonic poems or something to that effect. it's extremely difficult to satisfy every critic when someone wants to call something a symphony. especially not when you use mridhangam, and carnatic phrases in the composition! (i hope he releases the moods of ir soon! i listened to a piece of it and man was it great! m.... )
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.254) on: Wed May 16 14:53:27 EDT 2001
  
  "Critics feel his music doesn't qualify to be called a "symphony"
  
  In the name of a "music acdaemic" you assume lot of things here. I have not read any critics review so far in any magazine. John Scott has just pointed it at, but nothing in great detail. There must be some criticisms, but on "which and what" no one knows..So I suggest you to keep a full stop here before making any further assumptions.
  
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Wed May 16 15:04:08 EDT 2001
  
  Fliflo - that was just a guess. Please don't bring a personal angle to that here. As far as I am concerned I think you are a total idiot and a big time waster. Please don't argue with me.
  
  
• From: comment (@ 12.5.10.153) on: Wed May 16 15:15:57 EDT 2001
  
  swamiji, please control your words,
  everyone is not qualified as you are.
  people hear music for music and interest, learned people like you have a little bit more ability to see it techinically.
  imho:if don't want to argue you should not have replied to fliflo's statement,
  
  take it easy.
  
  
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Wed May 16 15:24:00 EDT 2001
  
  Yes comment I agree. Mail me your ph # man...
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Wed May 16 15:25:07 EDT 2001
  
  But still I think Fliflo is an idiot.
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Wed May 16 15:25:18 EDT 2001
  
  But still I think Fliflo is an idiot.
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.254) on: Wed May 16 16:28:46 EDT 2001
  
  I am glad to be named as an idiot by a bigger idiot.."Swami" and the way you get stirred up are totally against each other...I like to see that ..:-))
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Wed May 16 16:36:41 EDT 2001
  
  Anand:
  RPO is an orchestra. It doesn't decide or analyze a piece in order to play it - although we all know of its reputation and the quality of music it brings. A conductor once again does not put forth his own views on how music should be. His job is to conduct. Morever if you think about this, music cannot be recorded without musicians playing it. So the fact is it was recorded by RPO not because they "considered" it equivalent to a symphony. It was played and conducted by John Scott because thats their job. Simple right?
  The trouble occured when it came to releasing. How can a copyright issue "Hurt" ilayaraja (in John Scot's own words) personally??? It would hurt his vallet no doubt, but not his sensitivity.
  Actually this was talked about in chennai a lot among professional musicians - and my "master" was one among them. I was told by him (just like I guessed) that this was the case.
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.67) on: Wed May 16 16:54:13 EDT 2001
  
  Is John Scott the short guy...when IR was conferred the Maestro title at a function at the Kamaraj Auditorium in Chennnai...two Englishmen were also present..one was a dwarf and he was called John something (...not Little John! ;)...and they all praised IR's work...
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.254) on: Wed May 16 16:57:04 EDT 2001
  
  It is a total monopoly and arrogance to expect people to nod for whatever one says. Assumptions and guesses are mere hearsays unless confirmed with some solid source or evidence. Making one to believe unsupported assumptions would be the biggest blunder one can ever think of..An idiot says this...
  
  
• From: bm (@ 152.163.213.68) on: Wed May 16 17:08:49 EDT 2001
  
  I think Swamiji could be right about the use of the word "symphony"..by IR. In WCM i think it is standard practice to dissect a musical form and tear it tp pieces in the name of criticism..this has been the practice since the days of geniuses like Mozart himself..I remember reading about the attacking comments people showered on " marriage of figaro " and "the musical joke" ...the latter particularly must have raised a lot of furore.also ,There is this absolutely crazy kind of a criticism that was faced by Rossini...the critics described his music more harshly because he was from a rich/aristocratic family and stated that his music is not commensurate to his social standing etc !!! the same could be the case here where the purists may find something unacceptable with the compsotion to be called a symphony or it may be some kind of a bias against a non white composing somrthing called a "symphony" .May be IR should market it as his "unfinished " :)if that satisfies them ..!!
  
  
• From: bm (@ 152.163.213.68) on: Wed May 16 17:15:31 EDT 2001
  
  From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.254) on: Tue May 8 14:55:53 EDT 2001
  
  
  There is too much of self-proclamations going on in this area. Don't ask me to point out..
  
  
  
  

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