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Musical Merits &Demerits of IR and ARR [Only for fans, not fanatics!]

Topic started by V (@ 147.129.99.180) on Thu Jul 17 16:26:37 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

To bring our healthy/unhealthy discussion on music merits and demeits of IRR and ARR out of the Thangar Bacchaan thread I starting this thread so that it would be more appropriate.

I expect people who post here to be fans and not typical fanatics. Expecially the young ARR fans and the "Theevira" Raja fans

Thanks!

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: V (@ 24.59.96.237) on: Thu Oct 2 18:57:44 EDT 2003
  
  As a side note,
  
  the high pitch sample that goes something like "yele....something ... something" in ARR's Thillana Thillana from Muthu is actually a tribal chant loop used by DF too!
  
  
• From: Hariharan (@ 68.166.243.109) on: Thu Oct 2 19:07:34 EDT 2003
  
  Jag,
  If you want to listen to enigma you can get free access to most of their albums at www.enigmamusic.com.They have a jukebox on the main page which has real clips of their 'Music'.Im one of those rare fans of Enigma and Deep forest music.Infact if Im not wrong in one Enigma album they extensively use Indian carnatic style chants like 'prasana vandhana' etc...I thought it sounded so awesome.Now not to deviate from the thread topic..Well, ARR songs similar to enigma..hmm I dont know if one can term enigma or deep forest as 'songs'.But I guess the introduction portion of Bombay Dreams' Ensemble feat has some remarkable usage of genral street sounds one can hear on a busy bombay street,which combined with some rhythmic beats and instruments sounds so different and nice(to me atleast).Also probabaly the song 'poogum vazhi elaam' from ratchagan has this feel I believe.ARR cannot entirely have a song sound 'Enigma'ish when it comes to commercial cinema.So he kind of adds this feeling at times to give it a different feel.One surely has to accept that ARR is too good with experimenting.
  
  I am a hardcore fan of ARR but I absolutely love some of IR's songs.Yet it was only after ARR came into the picture that I really got into waiting for audios to release etc.One reason I feel why IR has not been able to get into international scene is that he never worked on his Image.As in he always looks and handles himself very traditionaly with a kurtha etc...and obviously outsiders and westerners would find it very odd to approach him.Not that its wrong on IR's part but probably he can afford to give more space.On the other hand ARR with his long hair and pop style music can easily lure western audience.But one has to only credit ARR for that bcos its nothing wrong.The westerner's feel that you are appreciating their work and way of life too and so they also try to learn yours.But if you say western is bull crap and Im the great...obviously they would also be biased towards you.I like ARR's approach bcos in one way he mnakes it clear that 'I can do what you can...can you do what Indian Music can?'.Its better than 'I claim that Indian Music is supreme'.What say? ALL IMHO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
  
• From: agneyen (@ 68.100.61.134) on: Thu Oct 2 19:23:00 EDT 2003
  
  For me New Age is any music which doesn't fall under any of musical categories like pop/rock/classical etc.
  
  Deep Forest, definitely new age but are not original they compile songs and tunes from all over the places and add their own flavours. And I don't know why most of indians like Enya , too celtic and not a new age artist. I hate her voice it irritates me.
  
  ARR's use of synth doesn't classify him as new age artist. take any of his song it's either rock , soft rock , pop , indian classical. same goes to IR
  
  
  
• From: MADDY (@ 203.94.233.109) on: Thu Oct 2 22:04:27 EDT 2003
  
  Indian film songs do not follow a single type of music........ our MD's mix and remix a lot of sounds which ultimately becomes a "unknown" genre of music.......for example in Boys the girlfriend song was like a mixture of many types of music.....:
  1.'palpole' starting was like pop genre.....
  2. 'inaiya thalathil -kannini kaalithil' sounded like clubhouse genre of music.......
  3. ' Girlfriendsthane boysin boost allava' was typical boyband sound.......
  4. interlude was guittar riff which is similar to aerosmith's riff in "All the way" song....... it becomes Rock genre.....
  so it is sad that nobody follows defined protocols and directors/heroes/producers are the main culprit here.......anyway Girlfriend song is a classy number.......
  
  
• From: V (@ 24.59.96.237) on: Thu Oct 2 23:15:21 EDT 2003
  
  "For me New Age is any music which doesn't fall under any of musical categories like pop/rock/classical etc. "
  
  
  Not only for you, but also for these Americans who would not care less for some "weird foriegn" music that they cannot recognise with the american genres like pop/class/rock/jazz...
  
  I think even I should adopt a more stricter attitude. Call new age music kinds with specific genre like ambient, techno ambient, ethno-tribal, world fusion and call all the the other genres such as pop/rock/jazz.. etc as "american" music.
  
  
• From: agneye (@ 68.100.61.134) on: Fri Oct 3 00:21:22 EDT 2003
  
  V
  You are probably right, Most people in USA think American country music as generic, but for us it's weird and funny.
  
  I want to step out a little bit and add something to this thread.
  
  There are interesting aspects of vedic period where lyrics were embeded with special sound syllable. which we call Mantra. if you pronouce loundly any lines of mantra. you'll feel vibes and rhythm inside kind of natural instrumental flow . E.g. Gayatri ( Repeat Emphasis on 'Bh' syllable or Rudra ('Yum' Syllable ) or AUM.
  There is math involved about vocals ,placement and number of occurances for these syllables or words. Interestingly it also involves breathing patterns. we don't have any artist capable of writing such things. we have lost this science.
  
  Mantra is altogether different genre.
  
  Mantras are basis for chants. Any chants. Even christian gregorian chants are based on our mantra genre. Trance genre is based on mantra.
  
  
  Apart from lyrics being problem, Most of IR songs have somewhere miute moments of mantra. He might have spend his childhood somewhere in proximity to temple area.
  
  ARR's music has elements of sufi which peeps up once while.
  
  I haven't noticed any of IR or ARR songs with pure Mantra. I know for sure ARR tried for one of baba song but failed due to inherent fault in lyrics.Any example on IR side ?
  
  
  
  
• From: agneye (@ 68.100.61.134) on: Fri Oct 3 00:40:43 EDT 2003
  
  meaning of pop/rock
  POP is short for Popular. Any music which is cut with sweet chords, soft chorus and rhythm intentionally to popularize is what i call POP.
  
  ROCK is heavy use of guitars, difficult chords.. few people go for it then there is hard , metal , soft and classical etc .
  
  
  At the end of hearing a song there is this constant feeling you get which actually decides the genre. So most prominent genre gets the lead.
  
  
• From: V (@ 24.59.96.237) on: Fri Oct 3 00:47:26 EDT 2003
  
  agneye
  it was a very refreshing feeling to read your mantra descripton. Surely we have lost that science.
  
  Someone also told me which particular region of the internal organ system vibrates or is sensitive the most to each of the swaras. The same person also explained that the vibrations caused by the vedas are to injurious to female reproductive organs and also since they undergo the menstrual cycle the vibrations are not proper but erring. Some erudite person can throw more light into this.
  
  IR surely has composed more mantraic songs than ARR. one such song that gives me the satisfaction of reciting mantram is the Veera bit song "Kannil". Awesome song.
  
  
• From: Dude (@ 67.167.55.147) on: Fri Oct 3 02:18:25 EDT 2003
  
  Agneye,
  
  I am learning a lot in this thread... Well, does ARR's rendition of 'mangalyam thanthunane' and the Mudhalvan background music(sanskrit chants) come under the category of pure mantra? How would you rate these two efforts? I thought the mudhalvan background vocals were excellent...
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 67.85.193.232) on: Fri Oct 3 09:13:49 EDT 2003
  
  Most people in USA think American country music as generic, but for us it's weird and funny.
  
  Agneye,
  Actually American true art form of music is Jazz, but it has always been the British Metal Influence and then later the Canadian on-slaught and then I should say, the Australian Rock Force that changed the way American Music is now.
  
  As of my knowledge the only True Rock legend of American is Elvis.
  
  American's believe in everything of superior (though it is funny and wierd) i think of a quote for American Footbal which might make you think why it is like that: The quote goes "AMERICAN FOOTBAL IS played by Americans, watched by Americans and it is for America and they Call it WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP".. For any American the world is America, probably World News is the next town news..
  
  Note on mantra was refreshing. thanks.
  
  Dont we call that Sandhams in Music Parlance or am i mistaken?
  
  Dude,
  You are right, I really liked the Mangalyam.. rendition to be the best in recent times.. Hats off to ARR for that.
  
  
• From: agneye (@ 209.48.32.2) on: Fri Oct 3 12:43:10 EDT 2003
  
  Mudalvan background was Gregorian chant; he took it from Christian inspirational. Mangalyam is good example but he made it to pop with heavy beats.
  
  More side note
  as per pranayama , people who really how to say AUM , they break it in three notes A U M, They start with A from belly ( you can try it with breathing out , stretching belly inwards :) ) , then O from heart ( you should feel sound running inside you from belly towards heart ) then 'U' from throat and final 'M' should vibrate for few seconds in head. One can stay longer on each syllable by repeat pronouncement. With good practice you can extend this in 21 or 108 loops.
  
  IR's patu choli song (i don't remember exact words) begins with AUM; it's very scientific the way singers pronounce AUM.
  
  
• From: xml (@ 128.148.68.110) on: Fri Oct 3 17:55:44 EDT 2003
  
  MIL I agree with you. At present their taste is veryt worst.But a while back MJ's time the music was good with many artist like Elton john,alban etc..
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 67.85.193.232) on: Fri Oct 3 22:07:23 EDT 2003
  
  xml
  I would not consider the taste to very worst, but i guess, the rap-genre and hip-hop has taken more predominance than anything. There are some good beats and songs out there, some good lyrics too
  
  You should listen to LOOSE YOUR SELF by Eminem from the moive 8 Mile (which won OSCAR)
  
  
• From: Dude (@ 12.248.198.110) on: Mon Oct 6 01:55:54 EDT 2003
  
  Agneye, what do you mean "it's very scientific the way singers pronounce AUM." ??? Clarify please...
  
  
• From: rajasaranam (@ ) on: Mon Nov 10 06:33:56 EST 2003
  
  BTW,
  
  IR is the best all time.
  
  
• From: V (@ 24.59.74.246) on: Tue Nov 11 00:25:11 EST 2003
  
  rajasaranam
  
  I dare not disrespect your opinion! It is a well-crafted one indeed!
  
  Of course you know mine is different. :-)
  
  
  

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