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Maha Dabba tamil Songs by ARR and Deva

Topic started by MSK (@ marimuth-nt.qualcomm.com) on Mon Sep 14 21:57:34 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi,

I want to list out "Dabba Songs" of neo MD's Like Deva and ARR .

This will prove how junk the songs have become these days .

Definiton of Maha Dabba Songs :

-Half Baked Lyrics like Cell phone , CD-ROM etc
-Singers prouncing tamil words as though it's a sin to utter a tamil word.
-Using Lifted and re-cycled Tunes
-Consistent use of Algorithms like " Amplifier'kku gain alagu " , "Toilet'kku Tissue paper alagu" etc..

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: junior (@ 194.170.168.94) on: Wed Sep 16 09:30:58 EDT 1998
  
  The only reason that i (we?) can think of for ir not mentioned is there are over 500 songs to name
  
  
• From: Senior (@ 209.149.247.66) on: Wed Sep 16 12:41:06 EDT 1998
  
  Good Joke:-)))
  
  
• From: SR Kaushik (@ elroy.cs.wisc.edu) on: Wed Sep 16 13:22:26 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth, I am posting this for you. I have already posted something something in the "Gangai Amaran" thread. As a person knowledgeable in music and having some contacts, you will be an asset to the project of sponsoring an album. I request you to participate more actively in it - you have already shown some interest in it, but there have been no responses of late.
  
  
• From: Swami (@ wproxy.dl.nec.com) on: Wed Sep 16 13:38:50 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth, I think u have taken what I posted in the wron sense. Sorry for this too techie example...Just imagine this situation,
  some Tom, Harry... .... comes and tells K&C (the men who discovered C), your concept of pointers is a garbage. Well first of all imageine the pain and level of tremendous work K&C would have put into the creation of C. Either that Tom and Harry should have been Goslling (man who started Java) else could anyone tolerate this. See however great we maybe as far as music knowledge is concerned ( no personal attacks intended), they are creators. They (IR here) has(ve) put their mind and soul into the creation. And we just use what they create. There is a hell a lot of difference between creation and using the creation. Or
  rather many would find it difficult to comprehend and understand the creations(for ex language C....techie ex again). If u had watched all my postings so far, I have never ever criticized or attacked personally on any MD. I like ARR, and if I don't some of his songs I keep my mouth shut. I know he has done enough work to make India dance. But again I say he has a long way to go.
  
  All of us have rights to post our feelings I agree 100% with u in regard to this statement. But I was totally disappointed with u'r postings of late. I have even visited your home page a number of times and was amazed by the collection of songs u have. Ask u'rself, starting a thread like 'dabba songa of IR...', well it does'nt make sense to me to except such a thing from a guy like u. It was more of a dis-appointment rather than frustation with u, Mr.Srikanth. Lets have an healthy discussion in the future......cool.
  
  >>Swami
  
  
• From: Swapna (@ spider-wd082.proxy.aol.com) on: Wed Sep 16 16:33:36 EDT 1998
  
  The following is a quote from kiruba in the "IR's dabba Songs" thread:
  
  Take it easy guys. After all its music. Its for our enjoyment it is not like religion or something to fight over (well..even religion is not something to fight over .just trying to convey a point)
  
  sincerely,
  IR rasigai swapna
  
  
• From: ARR&DEVA_BASHER (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Tue Sep 22 05:13:34 EDT 1998
  
  Do any songs of deva excluding Asai, NN, kAdhal kOttai and KEKV don't come under this category???
  
  How about including ARRs IvargaL innattu mannargaL, Super police, pavithra, daud(tamil version -this is TFM page ,after all ;-)) ) ,kabhi naa kabhi (tamil version),saat rang ke sapne etc ????
  
  
• From: yy (@ 195.72.87.177) on: Tue Sep 22 10:45:12 EDT 1998
  
  saat rang ke sapne i hope this is not from ARR!
  
  
• From: Srinivas (@ scproxy3.sc.intel.com) on: Tue Sep 22 15:07:45 EDT 1998
  
  Hi
  Come on Srikath! You cannot say that "Potukul Potalum" is a copy. It is obvious that IR had listend to the"Rin drops and Roses" song from Sound of Music and was unconsciously influenced by it. Though there is a close resemblance in the chords, the tune is quite different. Also, if you listen to WaltZ themes from Strauss and Tchaikovsky, they follow pretty much the same pattern. Some times, it is played on the piano and sometimes on the violin. You cannot call this copying.
  ARRs copies are much more direct. Yesterday, I was watching a Russian Ballet on TV and I heard the first interlude from "Yaae re Yaae re" song from RANGEELA. IN Rangeela, ARR also directly reproduced a Strauss piece for the BGM.
  
  BTW, can some one please tell from which song "Strawberry Kanne " was copied. When I heard the song, I had a strong sense of Deja Vu, but was unable to place it.
  
  Thanks,
  Srinivas
  
  
• From: SR Kaushik (@ elroy.cs.wisc.edu) on: Tue Sep 22 19:37:18 EDT 1998
  
  Saat rang ke sapne was from Nadeem Shravan. Their name wasn't put as Nadeem was trapped in the case. Anyway, isn't it obvious that the MD for this movie cannot be ARR? He definitely can't stoop to that level.
  
  
• From: GV (@ d8-fx01-lond-pdi.attcanada.net) on: Wed Sep 23 00:36:55 EDT 1998
  
  Some MD-s are "unconsciously influenced" by others, but some others just steal or copy from others. Interesting!!
  
  
• From: NOV (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Wed Sep 23 02:33:17 EDT 1998
  
  GV - it all depends on whether the bottle is half-full or half-empty. ;-))
  
  
• From: Shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Wed Sep 23 04:33:05 EDT 1998
  
  GV,
  what srinivas is trying to say is that there is some difference between "getting influenced" and "alt-X &Alt-V" ;-)))
  
  
• From: Srinivas (@ scproxy1.sc.intel.com) on: Wed Sep 23 14:09:40 EDT 1998
  
  Hi,
  Let me clarify what I was trying to say. First of all we have to accept the fact that no one can be 100% original. After all, a composer listens to what others before him have done and develops on those ideas. For example, in the realm of Western Classical music, it is a well-known fact that J.S. BACH (a trend-setter in the art of fugue and counter-pointing) listened to Vivaldi (best known for his work "4 seasons"). The obvious consequence is that u will find more than a shade of similarity in Bach's and Vivaldi's compositions.
  As a practical example, listen to the Allegro (2nd movement ) of Bradenburg concerto No.2 by Bach and the 1st movement of the "Spring" concerto by Vivaldi. The tunes are strikingly similar. It would be preposterous to suggest that Bach has copied from Vivaldi!!!!. Again, you will find a lot of similarities between some pieces of Mozart, Hayden and Beethoven. The simple reason is that they were contemporaries and listened to each other. So also, IR may have been influenced by the
  Rain drops and Roses song of SOM. I accept the fact that there are definite points of resemblance in the chords. I do not have much technical knowledge, but one reason may be that they used the same basic western classical "technique". In fact, I heard very similar chord progressions in pieces by Tchaikovsky e.g. (a concerto called "Sleeping beauty"). The resembalnce ends there.
  The tune is quite different and Maestro has embellished the song with spectacular, ORIGINAL interludes.
  In my definition, copying is a deliberate act of
  "quotation with/without modifications".
  
  Shankar :
  Thanx for clarifying my point.
  
  Srinivas
  
  
• From: SR Kaushik (@ nova15.cs.wisc.edu) on: Wed Sep 23 16:23:41 EDT 1998
  
  I agree with Srinivas. Even with ARR, you can see that he has been influenced by RDB in some of his compositions. For eg. "vaarayo thozhi" from Jeans was a repeat of "O mere sona re", but I think it was unconscious. I myself realised it only when soemone else told me. However, its inconceivable that, say the BGM piece of "Rangeela" was composed without realising that it was the same as a WC piece. That's a quotation no doubt.
  
  
• From: GV (@ d24-fx01-lond-pdi.attcanada.net) on: Wed Sep 23 16:35:11 EDT 1998
  
  Srinivas:
  
  My comments were of a "tongue-in-cheek" nature. No offence was meant. Thanks for clarifying your statement.
  
  
• From: Dev Mannemela (@ tide78.microsoft.com) on: Wed Sep 23 16:41:48 EDT 1998
  
  
  
  There was this Kannada movie I saw on Doordarshan (sunday afternoon slot). Music was by IR; But
  there were no songs.. There is a scene in this movie, where some one is going around in a car and the
  BGM for that scene was a Michael Jackson song (don't remember which one - Thriller, I think).. Now
  do you think IR "copied" MJ here ?? I don't and I don't think ARR "copied" Strauss in Rangeela.
  
  
• From: Srinivas (@ scproxy1.sc.intel.com) on: Wed Sep 23 17:02:36 EDT 1998
  
  Well, it is debatable whether ARR's quotation of Strauss in rangeela can be termed a copy or not, but he as an MD should take responsibility for the BGM.
  
  Dev, I do not get your point here. Are you trying to say that ARR is justified in reproducing a piece and thereby escaping from the responsibility of composing a piece for this situation? I have seen a lot of Hollywood movies in which Classical pieces are quoted for specific situations, but they are properly acknowledged in the credits, but as far as my knowledge is, no such thing was done for Rangeela. Now, what are we supposed to think? I was thinking for a long time that ARR composed a Great piece, till I realized that it was Strauss.
  In this particular situation, it is hard to distinguish whether it is ARR/ some one else who has composed the piece, unless he has taken the pains to acknowledge it. In the example you gave about the kannada movie, we can clearly say that this piece is not by IR and hence it is not part of the BGM. Therefore, ARR is atleast guilty of misleading public like me, even though he may not be guilty of copying.
  
  Srinivas
  
  
• From: Dev Mannemela (@ tide72.microsoft.com) on: Thu Sep 24 14:56:13 EDT 1998
  
  Hi Srinivas,
  
  What I was trying to say is that ARR was composing for the situation. Just like IR used the MJ piece for some one travelling in a car (and might be listening to Michael Jackson music in the car; I don't remember any details of the movie, but that would be very appropriate if the character travelling in the car is say, a rich city type..
  
  Similarly playing Strauss for a scene in a posh restaurant is very appropriate..
  
  It's like playing suprabatham or some devotional music for a temple scene..
  
  The traditional of acknowledging all the bits and pieces of music (or anything else, for that matter) simply doesn't exist in our film industry.
  While it would definitely be nice, it just doesn't happen right now.
  
  And it's not ARR's fault that you thought the composed the Strauss piece, is it ?? :-)
  K.V.Mahadevan uses a lot of instrumental versions of carnatic compositions (for appropriate scenes) as BGM in a lot of movies. If some one who is not familiar with those carnatic songs assumes that they are KVM's original compositions, can KVM be faulted for it ??
  
  
  
• From: Srinivas (@ scproxy1.sc.intel.com) on: Sat Sep 26 17:38:39 EDT 1998
  
  Dev,
  Thanks for the clarification. My misunderstanding probably comes from the inability to capture the context correctly (it is 3 years since I watched the movie!)
  
  Srinivas
  
  

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