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Ilayaraja copy adiththa paadalgal

Topic started by Rajaraman (@ 192.122.136.148) on Sat Jul 26 05:27:10 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Follower_of_ARR_fan (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Tue Mar 16 01:26:28 EST 1999
  
  ARR fan,
  ennappa , TN electionla deposit gALiyAyiduchu nu ingE vaNdhutteengaLA ??? (unga statements ellAM pAthA , periya padhavikku vara thaguthiyAna aLavukku pEthals irukkE :-))))) )
  
  
• From: Mr.Kuzapam (@ 206.139.13.152) on: Tue Mar 16 09:41:02 EST 1999
  
  VetukuVetku vasapadi -- A well inspired! (if IR does it is should be called as inspiration, copy applies only to other musicians) song from Mozart score, (that comes in Titanic Watch Jingle)
  
  Enjodi Maja Kuruvi - A well inspired Lift from Dutches and Dirt water fox.
  
  RajaRaja Chozan Nan- Reengineered from AAJa Saanam
  
  Flute and keyboard pieces in Kadoram Lolaku, Adiathaa dee -- lifted from various Bach scores.
  
  Then the famous Intha poovelum vasam undu - Lifted from Vivaldi 4 seasons (Spring).
  
  
• From: SRK (@ inktomi.doit.wisc.edu) on: Tue Mar 16 10:27:23 EST 1999
  
  Mr. Kuzapam: No piece in Adiathaa dee is lifted/inspired from any Bach piece. Please check your facts.
  
  And neither is rajarajachozhan reengineered from aajaa sanam.
  
  And for your kind information, one-or two bar similarity does not constitute copying. If it does, then each and every composer including Beethoven (who was supoosed to have quoted pieces of other composers) would be called plagiarists.
  
  In fact to be fair to Rehman, not so many of similarities are deliberate. For example the similarity of "vaarayo thozhi" to "o mere sona re" or the sameness of the charanams of "anbe anbe" and "mera joota hai japaani" are not intentional.
  
  
• From: Mr.Kuzapam (@ 206.139.13.152) on: Tue Mar 16 10:50:11 EST 1999
  
  "one-or two bar similarity does not constitute copying" - This also applies to everyone.
  I do not see any reason to talk about ARR here, this is IR copied songs. The facts I put I have heard it.
  The first piano and mallets run in adeeatahaa dee is a bach piece.
  The Flute piece in the second bgm in Kadorm lolaku is a bach piece.
  
  
  
  
• From: Sridhar Seetharaman (@ sagramolapc.cc.bellcore.com) on: Tue Mar 16 10:52:30 EST 1999
  
  Mr.Kuzapam:
  
  Intha poovelum vasam undu - is not lifted from Vivaldi 4 seasons (Spring). The pallavi is based on a lute concerto composed by Vivaldi. I have listened to it on radio.
  
  SRK:
  
  Composers like Raja operate at a much sophisticated level of copying. It is extremely diificult for common people to recognize that. Composers of his calibre can take a pattern from a Bach piece and easily apply to a carnatic based song. We will never knbow until he spells it out.
  Hats off to that ability.
  
  Rajarajachozhan sounds like aajaa sanam in the progression (ups and downs of the tune sound very similar).
  
  
• From: SRK (@ inktomi.doit.wisc.edu) on: Tue Mar 16 13:41:25 EST 1999
  
  Mr.Kuzapam: Yes, I agree that the statement that 1-2 bar similarity is not copying is applicable to everyone. Which is why I brought in ARR into the picture - otherwise, you were bound to interpret it that I was having one rule for IR and one for others.
  
  
• From: Sudhakar G (@ aegis.bst.bellsouth.com) on: Tue Mar 16 17:19:35 EST 1999
  
  The song "Yaarum viLayadum thottam" (Naadodi thendral) sounds exactly like an old song by P.Suseela - "Kuyilaaga naan irundhu enna"
  
  (I'm relatively new to this DF. So, ignore is if it has already been discussed)
  
  
• From: Anand Mahadevan (@ freedum.proxy.lucent.com) on: Tue Mar 16 17:39:05 EST 1999
  
  "Aaaja sanam" has a faster tempo and any simlarities ends in the 1st bar.Yes, they do have some overlapping melody but Mr.Kuzapam,they are so dissimilar in their underlying structure.
  Its a million dollar question wether it was an inspired composition.IR with his open admiration for shanker jaikishen could have done it but its a long way from copy.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ l-1d11-24.engr.sc.edu) on: Tue Mar 16 19:37:27 EST 1999
  
  sudhakar,
  the rhythm is slightly similiar in the first 2 lines, but 'kuyilaaga' differs greatly from 'yaarum vilayaadum thottam' - no smiliarity in notes.
  
  
• From: Swami (@ 129.107.61.33) on: Tue Mar 16 22:24:10 EST 1999
  
  The first piano and mallets run in adeeatahaa dee is a bach piece.
  The Flute piece in the second bgm in Kadorm lolaku is a bach piece.
  
  Mr.Kuzhapam,
  Can you quote which Bach piece it was copied from. I have with me the complete Bach collection. I'll have a chance to verify.
  
  >Swami.
  
  
• From: SRK (@ elroy.cs.wisc.edu) on: Tue Mar 16 23:35:12 EST 1999
  
  Swami: The flute piece in Kaadoram lolaakku is simiilar to Bach's Orchestral Suite no. 2 (or 3, I'm not sure which) - in fact the second interlude of "Manjal nilaavukku" is even more similar to this piece by Bach.
  
  
• From: Mr.Kuzapam (@ 206.139.13.152) on: Wed Mar 17 10:00:09 EST 1999
  
  swami : you have the answer,
  
  "Its a million dollar question wether it was an inspired composition.IR with his open admiration for shanker jaikishen could have done it... "
  
  Does this apply to other musicians also..
  
  
• From: SRK (@ elroy.cs.wisc.edu) on: Wed Mar 17 10:18:41 EST 1999
  
  Mr.Kuzhapam:
  Its interesting to note that others are filling details for your accusations. I seriously wonder how much you actually know and how much you are simply "plagiarising" from earlier postings. Hmmm....
  
  
• From: Swami (@ avalanche-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se) on: Wed Mar 17 10:25:54 EST 1999
  
  Mr.Kuzapam,
  Neenga confused case than'. Engalayum confuse panna theenga. Koncham detailed'a entha piece of Bach composition koorungal. If you don't know exactly, accept that, don't make false accusitions.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ kcecfp02.sprint.com) on: Wed Mar 17 11:56:18 EST 1999
  
  Swami,
  
  I thought SRK provided you with an exact reference of the Bach piece. Instead of listening to the piece and agreeing/refuting why are you constantly picking on Kuzhapam for more details. Sounds like you are upset that Mr.K actually came up with examples showing that IR is an inspired musician too. The purpose of this thread is not to say that IR is a lesser musician or that IR thrives only on copies. Don't feel insecure and try to deny blindly instances of IR copying/plagiarising/being inspired or whatchumaycallit.
  
  
• From: Swami (@ cacher-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se) on: Wed Mar 17 12:48:41 EST 1999
  
  Well Mr.rajaG,
  Look at the reply Mr.Kuzhampam gave me. He was so vague and not precise as SRK was. The point I was trying to make was, do not make false/baseless accusitions. This was what confusion was exactly doing. I could very well say Mr.Y copied "hsdgfsh" song from the film "qjsd" which resembles a Beethovan/Bach/Strauss/Vivaldi piece. My question from which Beethovan/Bach/Strauss/Vivald piece did Mr.Y copy from.
  
  The next point is, I do not claim IR as a total originalistic MD. Of course he has copied. But you see there is an extent to which the original was adapted/copied. For eg. I would rate copying of Deva in a scale of 1-10 (10 being the highest) as 10. I would give IR for some (NOTE some songs) songs at the max 3/4. So neenga Mr.Kuzhapathukaga vettiya varichu kattindu varatheenga. Look at all his accusitions and appuram vaanga. Illena veeti kanzhundu vizunthurum.
  
  
• From: rama (@ 166.37.14.241) on: Wed Mar 17 14:19:37 EST 1999
  
  hello all,
  my room mate was taking some guitar lessons at home, and the guy taught him the basic notes and some basic tunes which all resembled our carnatic ragaas and tunes, so what can we say now, are all the western songs copies now?.
  All the music directors get inspired by some songs and try to imitate them and sometimes end up in lifting or replicating the tune. So no one is an exception to this, I mean NO ONE.
  Now the question is whether the MD got inspired or had he replicated?, in that I follow SWAMI's way of giving scores.
  like IR lifts will be to 20% and ARR's is 65% and Deva's 95% and i dont think any one else is worth mentioning here.
  
  
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ s03.austin.ibm.com) on: Wed Mar 17 14:55:21 EST 1999
  
  Swami:
  In a scale of 1 to 10 in copying, I would rate Deva at 11 !!!!
  
  
• From: Siva Magesh Prabhu (@ j147-3.comp.glam.ac.uk) on: Wed Mar 17 15:27:46 EST 1999
  
  We cannot blame IR,ARR for copying because they do more albums per year than the English artists. So I think few movies is alright. But copy cats like Deva who copy songs most of the time like the song "Kaalamellam kadhal vaazhga" in "kadhal kottai"was a lift from Celine Dion's "Halfway to Heaven". What so concerns me is that chap not only lifted the tune he also lifted celine's voice as well. I think those kind of people should be kicked out. But our tamil field has become so thick to give him a good position in the field. Therefore IR & ARR are nothing.
  
  
• From: Swami (@ cacher-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se) on: Wed Mar 17 15:58:52 EST 1999
  
  Mr. Srinath,
  :))
  
  
• From: SM (@ pmnat01-p06.sgum.mci.com) on: Wed Mar 17 16:40:57 EST 1999
  
  rama,
  
  Just 95% for Deva. No, idha yetru koLLa mudiyaadhu. Deva evvaLavu kashtappattu uzhaichu (Rajni baashayila vervai sindhi) lift panraaru. Avarukku verum 95%a? This is a disgrace to Deva. I would give him 150%:-))
  
  
• From: SM (@ pmnat01-p06.sgum.mci.com) on: Wed Mar 17 16:41:20 EST 1999
  
  rama,
  
  Just 95% for Deva. No, idha yetru koLLa mudiyaadhu. Deva evvaLavu kashtappattu uzhaichu (Rajni baashayila vervai sindhi) lift panraaru. Avarukku verum 95%a? This is a disgrace to Deva. I would give him 150%:-))
  
  
• From: Mr.Kuzapam (@ 206.139.13.152) on: Wed Mar 17 16:53:45 EST 1999
  
  Swamiji : Enamo ponga ,I do not want to repeat the same sentences, someone has already posted the similarities. They have also thought the same as me, as RajaG says
  why dont you accept the facts (do not bother about who said it) or I know music etc.
  
  I am an average music fan having some WC knowledge, when I hear bach pieces, it sounds more like IR to me. The chords progression or structure sounds similar. thats it.
  Raja is also a inspired musician , takes bits and pieces from WC, Also my punai peiar helps you abuse me more.
  
  
• From: Swami (@ cacher-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se) on: Wed Mar 17 17:32:24 EST 1999
  
  I still remember IR had once said in an interview, that, Sebastin Bach is his favorite composer. He is indeed inspired by his notes. But appata copy yendu solla mudiyathu. Eg for appata copy is ARR copying the BG of Ace of Base in "telephone mani", Deva copying all his songs sorry, most of his songs.
  
  
• From: rama (@ 166.37.14.241) on: Wed Mar 17 17:36:39 EST 1999
  
  Seri SM,
  unga aasaiya keduppanaen pudinga 175%.
  See Mr.kuzapam, there is nothing personal here, adhaan everybody knows that nothing is original, all are in one way or other will resemble songs, now the skill is how one has handled it.
  as for IR he gets inspired and thinks a lot on it and tries to give something more creative and brilliant. which i wonder anybody is doing it or not, like he uses raga and moulds it to his taste, our taste and to the tempo of the movie, which is why he is excelling in that. Where as everybody else starts copying from their first movie, with out effort and goes popular with copied songs only.
  
  
  
  

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