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Creativity of MSV

Topic started by RAJAN (@ proxy-117.iap.bryant.webtv.net) on Sat Jan 10 15:32:47 EST 1998.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Fri Jun 18 14:13:53 EDT 1999
  
  Sita Ram:
  
  >Because of IR singers like SPB and Yesudas could survive on a daily basis and songs poured in left right center and contributed to sustaining interest in TFM.
  
  Probably you have forgotten the fact tha KJY is "the king" in Mallu musci (he is called "gaana gandharvan") where IR is almost a non - entity. This statement refers only to the number of films he has composed in mallu and NOT their quality. IMO, Ihold GURU as the best output from IR for films.
  
  On the same lines I can defend SPB's position in telegu film industry. Saying that KJY and SPB survived on IR is outright belittlement of the two singing greats. As a matter of fact they are very much senior to IR when it comes to film music.
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ ifmxlenx.na.informix.com) on: Fri Jun 18 14:22:32 EDT 1999
  
  Before anything, I have healthy respect for IR and his colossal achievements , certainly one of the best ever in India.
  Sitaram,
  SPB is atleast 10 years senior to IR and KJY even more. For people who think that IR discovered SPB, well...he was the numero uno singer in Tamil,Telugu and Kannada even before IR's advent.
  In tamil, he had staved off the KJY threat ( after the spurt of success with Malare, thirupaarkadalil) and had emerged as the first choice for all MDs. True, a singer's career depends on how much a MD needs him/her but in this case, IR needed SPB as much as SPB needed him (only in Tamil) , for sustaining his career.
  
  
• From: rameshb (@ stagfw.thehartford.com) on: Fri Jun 18 14:36:55 EDT 1999
  
  Sitaram
  you are absolutely right, IR gave a different dimension to SPB's career by rediscovering the latent talents he had. Eventhough I like many of SPB oldies (of 70s), i think he was used for many boisterous , wacky , upbeat numbers featuring underrated heros before IR's entry. SPB found a new rythm in his voice after his 'buvana oru kELvikkuRi', 'vattaththukkuL sathuram' (mathanOtchavam rathiyOduthaan) . When he placed MSV above IR, his views were no more than the personal choice of an individual(for melody) and he has failed to justify from the eyes(or ears!) of a musician who would explore the intricacies of compositions.
  
  "For people who think that IR discovered SPB, well...he was the numero uno singer in Tamil,Telugu and Kannada even before IR's advent"
  Sriram L,
  enna sir ippadi solleetteenga? atleast in tamil, TMS was ruling the roost until 1976/77, and it was only after IR's entry , SPB became numero uno. Well, partly you can also say that the Sivaji/MGR factors attributed to a low-profile SPB in the early-mid 70s.
  
  
• From: raja (@ ws-209-201-91-35.icon.com) on: Fri Jun 18 15:04:44 EDT 1999
  
  Rameshb:
  
  Madhanotsavam is from Chaturangam and the MD - V Kumar.
  
  
• From: rameshb (@ stagfw.thehartford.com) on: Fri Jun 18 15:25:56 EDT 1999
  
  oops!
  raja, thanks for the correction!
  
  
• From: SitaRam (@ portal.ameritech.com) on: Fri Jun 18 17:03:07 EDT 1999
  
  rameshb, you and I agree on the comparison issue. SPB of all the film world people saying that MSV is 10 times ahead of anybody in TFM! What a joke! Is he trying to drive a point that MSV has not been given recognition or that IR was a stupid composer? In the overall analysis i agree that MSV is an institution and a couple of notches more timeless than IR, but 10 times? Why is this?
  
  
• From: SRK (@ tan7.ncr.com) on: Fri Jun 18 17:08:44 EDT 1999
  
  I would the question the authenticity of this quote. As far as I know, SPB would be the last person to make such comparisons in public. Why, in interviews, he even praises Deva!!
  
  
• From: e.hari (@ hud04a01.ml.com) on: Fri Jun 18 17:52:02 EDT 1999
  
  I think, there are few reasons, why SPB would have
  made this comments, if at all he did. First of all, it is no secret that IR and SPB had been very close friends and also had very huge rift in the
  mid 80s, which still has telling effect in thier
  friendship. Also SPB, loved more freedom in his
  singing, and MSV and ARR have provided them a lot, where as IR wanted the singers to sing in his way.
  
  But though I can get thru this remark from SPB, still I could not understand why SPB rates
  RDB very high. He had only few songs under him, and they were just ok. It still puzzles me.
  
  I always thought SPB is a very nice and non-controvisial person. But I think, for last
  few years he is making few surprising statements. I dont know, whether it is the result of losing
  his dominance in the film world. I dont want to see another out-of-job, frustrated TMS in SPB.
  
  hari
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.28.190) on: Fri Jun 18 18:41:29 EDT 1999
  
  Hari:
  
  RDB, Salil and Naushad rank as the greatest hindi composers in SPB's opinion (some interview given in the net - don't know where I read ). RDB's songs for SPB may have been ordinary ( I do not know even one such combo), but RDB's other songs are absolute gems. I think I will be right in saying that he brought new definition for hindi music. When Salil was very much busy producing complicated melodies, he had view point totally different for music. One example I would like to quote is "bahon mein chale aa". The difference of the rendition of this song by LM is very much different from "aaja re pardesi". There was something new about his composition. I would dare to say that he was the one who boldly experimented with scale shifts.
  
  But I think thre had been enough digression (including myself) from the Creativity of MSV. Why can't somebody takeup soome song of MSV and discuss it, rather ?
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.28.190) on: Fri Jun 18 18:54:39 EDT 1999
  
  typo:
  
  The difference of the rendition of this song by LM is very much different from "aaja re pardesi".
  
  should read:
  
  The rendition of this song by LM is very much different from "aaja re pardesi".
  
  
• From: e.hari (@ abd7be46.ipt.aol.com) on: Fri Jun 18 20:20:46 EDT 1999
  
  warning Digression!!!!
  MS,
  I am not questioning about RDB greatness ( IMO, he
  is overrated and hyped to some extent), But until recently, I never heard him praising any MDs
  exclusively. He was always nice with his words, even when anu malik ( for all people), criticized him for just mimicking, and not singing, his reply was very modest. This is
  the precise reason, I dont understand, why he is
  not mentioning IR in his favorite MDS list. I seriously hope that, this is not the personal reason. If RDB is in the top of list, there is no way IR could be left out.
  End digression:
  
  While discussing about MSV creativity, there are
  two songs, which stands apart just for its sheer
  novelty.
  First one is 'kadual ammaithu vaitha medai'. This
  song got everything, sweet sugar-coated tune, unheard structure ( the mimcking and funny, but still serious words in between), and appropriate
  orchestration I think this was the first time, MSv tried a very new interlude concept. Every interlude start with the same piece of music, but in each interlude it is developed further from the previous ones.
  I cant find a better example of situation song, than this, in the whole of TFM, I dare to say, perhaps even beyond that.
  The second one is 'bansari, kadal kavidhagal' from
  USV. This is the ultimate example of experimentation at that period. I dont remeber any tune, tuned this way, before or after ( apart from a very bad effort from Jatin-lalit in gulam recently). The interlude piece, looks like some oriental instrument( still dont know the name of that), is very catchy and singers TMS and LRE lucky enough to sing such a wonderful and different song, which to date, never being tried again.
  
  e. hari
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-151.il.us.ibm.net) on: Fri Jun 18 22:15:20 EDT 1999
  
  e.hari,great observation.
  Regarding the structure of "kadavul amaithuvaitha medai ", when I told about this few months ago, people laughed (Raj etc), saying this was childish argument, there is nothing special about this song, I feel the song was a novel idea,
  
  btw:This was one of the longest recording in tfm history, 21days+, MSV had people like Murugesh, Sadan to create effects, all were true human vocals - no KeyB samples.
  
  Given the technolgy and resources and commitment, MSV is a genius. He is way ahead of any one in creativity. Once again on SPB's opinion, he is right. Many here do not understand MSV's greatness. I dont blame them.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-151.il.us.ibm.net) on: Fri Jun 18 22:17:55 EDT 1999
  
  And saying SPB/KJY grew up bcos of Raja is pretty poor taste and clearly exposes blind worship.
  
  As someone put, after Kamal, MR, KB, BR now it is SPB, very soon some one would just comment MSV came up just bcos of Raja.
  
  Kadavule...Kapathu.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-151.il.us.ibm.net) on: Fri Jun 18 22:18:22 EDT 1999
  
  And saying SPB/KJY grew up bcos of Raja is pretty poor taste and clearly exposes blind worship.
  
  As someone put, after Kamal, MR, KB, BR now it is SPB, very soon some one would just comment MSV came up just bcos of Raja.
  
  Kadavule...Kapathu.
  
  
• From: e.hari (@ abd8b12f.ipt.aol.com) on: Fri Jun 18 23:37:50 EDT 1999
  
  srikanth,
  thankx. To take this discussion further, I want to mention few other songs. I cant comment on the
  technical merits of this song, due to my limited
  or non-existant ( :-) music knowledge. This is purely from a ordinary listener point of view.
  
  angum engum, from avargal. The melody is very good, but the orchestration, specially guitar selections at the end of saranams, is very appropriate.
  
  Yadum yure yavurum kelir - what a great interludes, very unique sounding, and the percussion beats is still unheard of ( combo of bangos and others, is it?). in the same movie
  in the song engayum eppodum , the snake music is
  used very effectively and it is a good dance song, unlike few IRs 80s disco songs, where songs don't seem to have constant flow.
  Solladhan ninakeran, is another very well constructed song, kind of song sound cool even to a spoiled ears from constant western pop music, and finally 'vaa nila nila', and I still rate this one of best the violin combo songs in TFM.
  All the KB, MSV combos in late 70s, proved , how MSV could be creative if he is given right amount of atmosphere, and I am not even mentioning the
  famous avargal song - Junior Junior.
  From What movie is this wonderful song - Urgolam pokingra killi kuttam ellam - SPB, LRE. I think, it is also in the same period.
  
  
  
  IMO, most over looked aspect of MSV, is his ability to score great music in remake movies.
  Remake movies always a challenging to the MDS, and
  MSV never failed in that aspect.
  In sivagaminyin selvan ( remake of aradhana), he came up with 'inivale endru padi vandhen', a song, IMO, even better than the original songs.
  In nalai namadhe ( yadokingi bharat), the title song in tamil is more sweeter than original one, and while the hindi version did not have any meldious numbers, the tamil version has 'neela nayanagil'.
  In thillumullu, still I cant stop appreciating the song 'ragangal padinaru', and this is in late 80s, where MSV was almost out of the market, and what about the great song from pokkiri raja -
  vidya vidya solli tharuven also from the same period, I still love the violin piece which comes in the last interlude.
  
  E.hari
  
  
  
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Sat Jun 19 02:16:06 EDT 1999
  
  hari:
  
  neela nayanangaLil is a wonderful song. Thx for reminding me of the same.
  
  MS
  
  

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