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Ilayaraja copy adiththa paadalgal

Topic started by Rajaraman (@ 192.122.136.148) on Sat Jul 26 05:27:10 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Mon Mar 22 18:26:09 EST 1999
  
  Kuzhappam and Raj,
  
  Ungalukkaga thani DF aarmbikkanumnu ninaikkiraen. I suggest you start a separate thread rather(if Ravi permits) and continue all your feud there. (No serious stff this:-))))))))
  
  
• From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com) on: Mon Mar 22 20:10:30 EST 1999
  
  Well IR might have copied. I dont care. But he does not live by copying. He is a CREATOR. I think he is the only guy from India who is comparable with other composers (not with guys who make pop music) in the world. He blends Indian melody with western classical music techniques. He is adept in using music to convey emotions which is very much required for BGM. He is not tuning just songs. He is creating a whole new genre of music. (He may not be the first to start this genre but he is perfecting it).
  
  So I find it very difficult to digest when he is clubbed with ARR and Deva for not being CLEAN. It is totally unfair. Actually it is childish to think they are in the same category (sorry, if I hurt somebody's feelings. But thats my opinion).
  
  I have to agree with Srikanth that ARR is also a creative person. But I doubt he is of the same calibre as IR.
  
  If somebody wants to call IR Mr NOT CLEAN or NOT SO CLEAN, please take delight in that. Funny you will be losing a world of pleasure from his music. I am sure IR also was faced with all kinds of criticisms in his career. And probably this is what drove him towards solace from spirituality.
  
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ 168-150-111.ipt.aol.com) on: Mon Mar 22 21:31:56 EST 1999
  
  Mr.Kuzhapam:
  Congrats on your single-mindedly attempt at creating a list of copied songs from IR ! Now, do we have the complete list ? Or atleast, do we have a comprehensive list ? One that lists the entire spectrum of IR's copied songs, even if it does not list every single one ? It is 7 songs long ! Does that say anything about how unclean IR is ? And again, don't revert to the "fractions don't matter" argument - I literally invented that line or argument - as George Costanza would say :-))) That is not a viable line of argument. We have most, if not all, the copies of IR listed here. As Raj says, DFers like you have had 2 years, dozens of comrades and over 4000 songs to pick, choose and prove as copies. I don't even want a beyond-all-doubt kind of proof - one that is logically possible is acceptable by me - and unlike Raj, I am also large-hearted enough to grant you that even IR's inspirations that are listed here can be considered copies. Yet, you come up wih 7 songs. I am feeling really generous today - let me grant you another 3 to round it off ! 10 SONGS !!! You can chip away as much as you want from the HUGE list of 4000+ songs of IR - you are never going to be able to list more than 15-20 that show a distinct resemblence to someone else's creations. Even the probability of two songs sounding similar must be higher that the ratio of IR's originals to his copies. That is what we mean by calling IR as the only original composer today. Think of what percentage 10 is out of 4000 ! 0.25% !!! If that is not negligible, what is ?!!!
  
  
• From: Diwakar (@ spider-th082.proxy.aol.com) on: Mon Mar 22 21:50:18 EST 1999
  
  Kudos, Srinath! I think you have things in perspective. There are those statisticians, of course, who would split hairs over this percentage! An aside ( about such statisticians ) :
  
  Three of them went hunting. The first aimed at a deer and shot 10 feet to its left. The second shot 10 feet to the right. The third yelled in joy, "We got him!!!".
  
  Talking about the 7 ( or is it 2 after ignoring the inspirations ) rather than the close to 4000 original numbers is like missing the woods for the trees.
  
  
• From: hari (@ 169-117-79.ipt.aol.com) on: Mon Mar 22 22:16:12 EST 1999
  
  raj,
  cool down buddy. (long) list is supposed to be sarcastic.
  I am not here to accuse IR or ARR, and I dont have any problem to accept that IR copied or for that matter ARR copied. Just accept the facts and be a man ok.
  I am surprised to see IR fans feel so insecure, after all they are the one should be
  walking with their heads up.
  I am here in this forum for a long time, and I really dont want me to be branded in any pro or anti group.
  
  e.hari
  
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ 202-12-64.ipt.aol.com) on: Mon Mar 22 22:45:13 EST 1999
  
  Hari:
  It is not a question of insecurity - after so much time in this DF, I would expect you to atleast be careful with such words :-) I could very easily twist it around and ask, "Why do ARR fans feel so insecure that they want to convert a small bunch of "IR-crazies" into their fold ?" ! and I am 100% certain that my manhood has very little to do with IR copying songs ;-))) Just kidding there ! It is not an issue of acceptng that IR copied, but why such a hue and cry should be made about something so insignificant. It is a question of doing justice to a great performer - or at the very least, prevent a great injustice being done to him. It is because of such conscientous fans that the memory of geniuses is preserved over the ages. We see ourselves as doing a selfless duty. I mean, people like myself and Raj have very little reason to spend our precious time arguing for IR - except for the fact that we believe in his genius and its contribution towards our pleasure. It is a way of protecting such talent lest it stop being produced for fear of being undervalued. It is something worth fighting for - it is something worth defending, worth protecting and worth propagating. It is also a measure of our belief in the absolute truth as and when it occurs. And it keeps boredom at bay ;-)
  
  
• From: hari (@ 168-148-166.ipt.aol.com) on: Mon Mar 22 23:32:41 EST 1999
  
  srinath,
  Would not it be possible that this thread would have dried long time ago, if IR fans just let this small accusations go?. After all, many here will accept that IR indeed copied less than any one else, despite having 700 odd movies in his credit. I am not naming any names or person here, I am just quoting few arguments, people used here.
  
  Like IR is too great to indulge in copying, what ever he does is just inspiration, not copy. IF so, why it can't be applied to others too. I knew so many friends, who just desist IR music. For them 70% of IR music is just recycled non-sense stuff, 20% just waste and only 10% listenable.
  
  IF IR inspired by WC, then ARR is inspired by western pop and jazz and deva by everything, who cares. But people like IR and ARR have to mask the inspiration to save their names, where deva and others do not feel so or less talented to do so.
  Why I am saying this no one is god or great, it is just how you see the things. Can we prove that beatles is the greatest rock and roll band?. May be to few, but not to all of them.
  To be honest, I am not seeing any ARR fan, atleast regulars in this forum, claiming ARR as god or great. Every one has strong points and weekness.
  My only problem is, most of the IR fans here tend to like music with colored eye, and that is what I dont feel comfortable with.
  I know we love music with passion and that is the reason, we are spending our time in this wonderful forum, but when the passion goes overboard, it is crossing the comfortable zone.
  Anyhow, I love your stylish arguments, though I have to say not the message, it conveys. :-).
  
  with smile :-)
  
  e.hari
  
  
  
• From: Swami (@ 129.107.8.153) on: Mon Mar 22 23:33:29 EST 1999
  
  Questions.....
  
  
  
  • Does IR's fame depend solely on the 7 songs listed.?
    
  • Is he recognized only for those 7 songs?
    
  • Has he compared only those 7 songs?
    
  • Did he get massive recognition for those 7 songs???
    
  
  
• From: bb (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Tue Mar 23 03:08:40 EST 1999
  
  pg, about ur posting on standards, IR has done a similar thing in 'indhap poovilum vaasam varum' whose initial lines are a WC piece (i don't remember which one:( ) and has used it excellently in that song (SJ at her best)
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ 206-70-62.ipt.aol.com) on: Tue Mar 23 09:15:04 EST 1999
  
  hari:
  I apply the same standards to everybody and only by those standards do I claim that IR is better because only a miniscule portion of his music is dependent on someone else, either in the form of copying or inspiration. You have mentioned yourself that the others may not be talented enough to mask their inspirations - first, almost all their "good" numbers are inspired or copied (Eg., Deva, Sirpi), for others only their biggest hits are inspired or copied (like Vidyasagar, S.A.Rajkumar), for yet others, only a select few of thier biggest hits are copied or inspired (like ARR). But for people like IR, copies are the exception that prove the rule that genuises like IR do not have to depend on someone else. This, I can say, purely because of the negligible number of copied songs for IR.
  
  As for people with colored eyes (jaundiced or otherwise ;-)) that is what is called taste. For those of your friends who think 70% of IR's music is recycled, would you say that they are looking at IR's music with colored eyes ? I do not expect everyone to love and admire IR as I do - but what is the necessity for these people to prove to me that IR is not as great as I think he is ? Isn't their crusade as silly and meaningless as you think mine is ? :-))
  
  As for leaving things as it is, yes this is something that I suggested some time back, probably even in this same thread and Madhan also responded saying that we cannot let people slur IR's reputation without proper proof. I'll try retrieve the relevant post later today.
  
  Eve I do not see a large number of ARR fans calling ARR great or God or whatever. But I do see a lot of them karichchikottufying IR - WHY ? :-)
  
  People like IR and ARR being inspired by WCM and Pop or Jazz respectively is not the same as Deva copying from Titanic or Lion King. There is an essential difference. WCM, Pop and Jazz are styles of music just as Carnatic or Hindustani music is. Titanic and Lion King are end products. They ar enot the raw materials :-)))
  
  
• From: Mr.Kuzapam (@ 206.139.13.152) on: Tue Mar 23 09:58:36 EST 1999
  
  Srinath:
  But I do see a lot of them karichchikottufying IR - WHY ? :-)
  --- bCos
  
  1. IR fan starts some crazy thread like ARR Running out of ideas , Arr Bashers and what not.
  2. Calling all the actors and Directors as traitor etc..just bcos they do not use IR anymore.
  3.One person came with IR thought SPB to sing.
  4. Finding fault with every other MD around.
  5. Simply claming new IR songs as HIT music.
  Last not the least --
  6. Downgrading all the other MD's in TFM.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Just stop this practice
  
  
• From: Mr.Kuzapam (@ 206.139.13.152) on: Tue Mar 23 10:04:29 EST 1999
  
  Can anyone come up with a measuring tool for an artist.
  
  A. Number of songs he/she produced.
  
  B. Popularity he/she got (Local/National/International)
  
  c. Std of music. (Might be different to everyone.
  he/she composed.
  
  D. Growth Time
  
  E. Money Earned (Like Tennis - Money & Winning plays a vital role)
  
  Etc. etc.,
  
  Raj and others:
  Please come up with something, I am doing a real attempt to slove this issue.
  
  
  

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