Topic started by naan sense (@ 68.77.16.5) on Mon Sep 15 21:26:21 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
Biggest blunder is losing Vani Jayaram. Seems like any IR song would've sounded super if VJ voice was there (whereas SJ voice was suited for SG, MSV)
2. blunder: Choosing Mano over SPB
3: Not giving enuff songs to Jayachandran and using weird voices like Krishnachandra etc..
4. Letting poor vocal control of PS, KJY and SJ in many a super IR song.
5: Sadma' poor songs without understanding Hindi market.
6. Wasting efforts in Kannada/Mal movies where he apparently does not have much recognition.
But, the biggest is Vani Jayaram. what a major loss to TFM
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: Vatsa (@ 160.83.32.14)
on: Wed Sep 17 14:19:01 EDT 2003
Hi All,
1. His biggest blunder was accepting too many movies subsequently compromising on quality, some of his gems are degraded because of this.
2. He did not give emphasise on doing alot of musical works other than cinema.
hi nan sense,
I would not say Moonram pirai was bad as u said. I think it had three great songs : Vaan engum, Poongatru and Kanne Kalaimane ... Sadma was too classical for hindi I guess ... thats why it failed. Hey Zindagi and Surumein ... were good and even ponmeni was very good for the kind of movie situation. The hindi equivalent of Vaan engum was not good though.
Vatsa
- From: naan sense (@ 68.77.153.10)
on: Wed Sep 17 15:21:12 EDT 2003
Vatsa: Vaan Engum is a classic. The hindi one was pale but i thought it was a buoyant super orchestrated song, but definitely not the Hindi market would bother to entertain. Tamil saw Kanney Kalaimaney as a super duper hit (but one of IR' most light compositions ever.) Poongatru was just super and Ponmeni was another thriller, but the point I am making is, this type of music was 50 years early for the Hindi market, plus if Tamil had not got used to IR' amazing innovation, such non-melodious tunes from another composers would have been thrown away, which we saw happening to Sadma! That is the point i am sayin. Hindi market thrived on melodic value than innovation (I don't call RDBurman original or innovator at all, sorry. he still had to be melodious to survive in the Hindi, even Bappi Lahiri.)
- From: x (@ 209.47.143.226)
on: Wed Sep 17 15:57:19 EDT 2003
I disliked IR for using singers such as S.N.Surender, Arunmozhi and bavatharini. Well, we all make mistakes and so did he. But I won't call them blunders.
But it's too much to say that poongatru is non-melodious??!. Sadma songs were actually remade bcos that's how balumahendra wanted them (he mentioned that in an interview). The movie, shooting location, scenes and even dialogues were same as in tamil. So why guys complain about the songs? Secondly the hindi audience didn't have the taste (or brain whatever you call it) to appreciate that 'class' of songs. They even made the movie a big flop. So why blame IR?
Then about kamagni. IR's one of the best. I watched that crappy movie twice just for the re-recording. It has great songs in it and again it was too much for hindi audience bcos it was a class ahead of time.
vatsa,
IR did not differentiate between good and bad movies. He always gave his best. He was the only MD who justified his job as a real professional. Whether it's background score for Mahendren's movie (e.g jonhy's climax scene) or for Ramanarayan's movie (e.g natpu's dog chasing scene), IR did his best bcos it was his job. If you think for a minute, you will realize most of IR's best songs were from crappy movies and for crappy directors and they were picturized so bad. You think IR bothered about all that. He knew that was the level of our directors. I don't think IR compromized on quality as far as his work was concerned by accepting too many movies. The truth was that there were to many 'jalra' directors and producers chasing behind him when he was at the peak and he had to accept most of their movies but despite that he still gave great songs. Dont forget his 80's had their best recording quality during their time. Did you really think IR did a blunder in 80's when you listened to them during that time? If you listen to them today and complain about the quality, then you are making a mistake. IR did an average of 35 movies a year in the 80's and 95% of were big hits even though most of the movies were crappy to the core but sadly you guys are talking about his blunders.
And why do you expect IR to emphasise on doing musical work other than cinema? There was not market in 70's, 80's and 90's for non-filmy albums. Even then, IR released a few musical albums but how many of us bought them? Be reasonable. It's easy to list out the 'blunders' now about the work he did years ago. But you guys must realize that in those days whatever IR did probably made sense to him.
-My 2 cents.
- From: Mythila (@ 203.200.33.65)
on: Thu Sep 18 04:33:31 EDT 2003
Normal Man, that is a very good observation.
- From: Vatsa (@ 160.83.32.14)
on: Thu Sep 18 16:46:22 EDT 2003
Hi x,
This is the thread to find those blunders. Just thought what I found was his blunder. I am a great fan of IR, but IR did alot of song recordings in a day. I dont know whether he would have supervised all ( I think its humanly impossible). So if he had let it do by someone else then there is high chance of the assistant compromising on that .... The worst thing for an artist is when the outcome is not as good as it should have been. I dont have a problem with IR as a creator ... somehow I feel he should have been much more careful in his yesteryears ...
Maybe he could not cope with his spontaneity physically.
Vatsa
- From: Speaker (@ 203.126.142.232)
on: Thu Sep 18 20:35:53 EDT 2003
Wish List:
IR would like to consider the following things for next releases
a) Use SPB, Chitra, Swarnalata - Drive out SS, Bhava, Shereya.
b) Never attempt to sing himself - Enough of this
c) Ask kamal just to do his job - acting. Never even dream to sing song - that too with greats like Janaki/Chitra
d) Dont use synthesizers - KR is a good support. No issues.
f) Ensure that the songs are not resembling any of the earlier songs. Of later most of the songs some fall into this category. If it has to better it looks like Metti, Nizhalgal etc.
g) Do not use formula based situation songs. One Pettai song(Pushpavanam), Oru sogam (Self), Repeat sogam (Bhava), Two great songs (SS, HR).Would like IR to freak out often.
- From: purv (@ 205.231.25.178)
on: Thu Sep 18 21:15:19 EDT 2003
good wish list, Speaker. I would like to add an
h) Avoid adding cheap commercial songs if they are not called for (don't ask what do I mean, you know what I mean!) :-))
regards
the purv
- From: purv (@ 205.231.25.178)
on: Thu Sep 18 21:24:00 EDT 2003
Oh, and let me add an
i) Try some Raagams that he doesn't usually use. Try giving more Hamsadhwanis (the last such song I can recall is 'Anbe Nee Enna' from Pandiyan), Aarabhis, Malayamaaruthams, Kaalasaveris (remember 'Neeya Azhaithadu'?), etc., or try some Raagas currently not used in cinema music (with original tunes), like how about Nagaswaravali, Namanarayani, Devagandhari, Jaanaranjani, or whatnot?
- From: Aswathama (@ 68.58.124.250)
on: Thu Sep 18 23:05:50 EDT 2003
j) Also avoid testing cheap ARR fans brains (esp puruv) who are used to listening just sounds. musically naive
:)
- From: G.Ragavan (@ 202.9.170.105)
on: Fri Sep 19 00:06:37 EDT 2003
I have no complaint against IR's music capabilities. I can talk nothing about it. But I wish I could have utilized some very good singers in TFM.
- From: paran (@ 203.123.16.135)
on: Fri Sep 19 04:40:39 EDT 2003
Dear Aswathama,
good to know u can somehow "think" and give such a statement....
IR never gave a noise?...or even if he did..that sounded as musical experiment to u rite?..
just be happy with what u hear...
- From: Mythila (@ 203.200.33.65)
on: Fri Sep 19 05:27:44 EDT 2003
Purv, Just wanted to know if kaalasaveri is close to Revathi coz I was under the impression 'neeya azhaithathu' was based on Revathi.
I want IR to try Behada, Behaag, Kambodhi, Ataana, Khamas, Bhairavi etc which are quite common place and will surely have mass appeal too.Iam aware, he has used these raagas as BGM pieces.
- From: purv (@ 205.231.27.212)
on: Fri Sep 19 16:26:40 EDT 2003
Mythila, I guess you could say that. It's only one swara different from Revathi. Kaalasaveri looks like this:
Aa: s r1 g2 p n2 S
Av: S n2 p g2 r1 s
Check out the song at Chidam's notation page.
Aswathama, I don't know you, and you don't know me. Therefore, if you got nothing nice to say, keep it sealed!! Please!!
- From: paran (@ 203.123.16.135)
on: Fri Sep 19 16:38:55 EDT 2003
IR's biggest Blunders
#1 : give birth to Bhava
#2 : made he sing
- From: paran (@ 203.123.16.135)
on: Fri Sep 19 16:40:18 EDT 2003
correction
#2 : made her to sing
- From: STS (@ 12.210.22.21)
on: Fri Sep 19 18:35:30 EDT 2003
IR's biggest blunder:
1) Born in India, most importantly TN (We elect b*tches and b*stards to power and worship actors and actresses). He is much better off born in Kerala or in AP.
2) Not convent educated
3) Not born in a Bhramin family, more importantly became a MD
4) Very good in Carnatic/Eastern and Western.
5) Composing original tunes.
6) Helping so many Producers and Directors to talk against him later.
7) Speaking down to earth truth, which no one can digest.
God help Raaja
- From: purv (@ 205.231.25.158)
on: Fri Sep 19 18:51:25 EDT 2003
STS, I can buy no.1, but WHAT do you have against composing original tunes, or being very good in Carnatic/Eastern and Western!!???
- From: STS (@ 12.210.22.21)
on: Fri Sep 19 21:53:57 EDT 2003
purv,
I was just pouring out my opinion. I meant even though he being a genius we simply seem to have no respect for him. That was more of sarcastic! What I meant was that we seem to support copycats but do not acknowledge the genuine knowledge.
- From: Speaker (@ 202.63.156.114)
on: Fri Sep 19 22:13:25 EDT 2003
What's this Brahmin funda. Though this is not the fourm for it, I wonder when Kazhagam pracharam started against IR. Atleast in TN, Bhramin success in any field, particularly Film industry is really doubtful. Most of the greats in TNF the past,and present are not from Bhramin. IR appreciation is above caste, religion and even language. Better stop raising this silly reason for every thing which you feel related to failure. Why this kind of feeling not vented in 70's, 80's? IR himself not bothered about all these silly issues!
- From: Neel D (@ 24.99.73.50)
on: Fri Sep 19 23:20:39 EDT 2003
naan sense,
When you add artistic excellence, technical excellence, perfection in pronuncation, clarity of words, ease with any genre of music and ease with any language, you get Vani Jayaram. There has never been another such unique and excellent artiste, ever, in Indian Film Music. Too bad IR couldn't see it. Because of him I had to listen to SJ performing mimicry and Chitra breathing to the mike, for more than a decade.
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