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Creativity of MSV

Topic started by RAJAN (@ proxy-117.iap.bryant.webtv.net) on Sat Jan 10 15:32:47 EST 1998.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ proxy12.ykt.prodigy.net) on: Sat Jun 19 06:13:25 EDT 1999
  
  Hari,
  'NaaLai namathe' had kaathal enbathu kaaviyamaanal kathanayakan veNdum and 'ennai vittaal' too. Note the beat patterns in the former, how beautifully the tabla and the triple congo are so much in accordance with the tune, which itself is brilliant.
  
  For his innovation without compromising on melody, you can go back to the 50's and 60's and there are a lot of songs that can leave you spell-bound. Have you heard 'aarodum maNNil' from pazhani? This is one of the greatest folk songs ever composed.Wonderful counterpoints too (pretty much on the same lines as Yamuna nathi inge). Srikanth, have you heard this song ? If so, your views please.
  Three stanzas , all with different tunes. After all, who could bring up images of a ploughed field with a flute alone? Believe me guys, nowhere will you here such a great usage of Pahadi raag.
  I believe MSV's greatness should not be worked out on the basis of his usage of raagas alone. His reaction to music itself was very instinctive which reflects in his compositions and thus several tunes of his do not conform to any raag as such. Even when he used some raagas (to him, most of the time, a raag was just a combination of notes and he couldn't care less for the gamakams that were traditionally associated with the raag), the original character would be totally overridden.
  
  I will just re-iterate what I had mentioned in some thread, has anybody heard a more innovative usage of Sivaranjani as in 'Utharavindri ULLe vaa' (title song)? The pallavi is totally in this raag, the I charanam (sung by an effeminate SPB) is a deviation, II charanam sung by TMS is classical Sivaranjani linked superbly back to the pallavi in all its youthful vigour.
  
  There is a popular misconception that MSV preferred to compose for pre-written lyrics. The fact is, this man was ready for anything. Immortal classics like 'Ponnenben siru poovenben','Vaan nila','Odum ENNangaLe'(Neela vaanam) had lyrics written for tunes. Point to be noted, there is no way you could judge how the charanam is going to flow after listening to the pallavi in any of the above songs, no formula there !!Complex too but with a natural flow, a case of complexity happening naturally and not stuffed into the tune for the sake of it (Salil could be accused of this at times).
  Most of my formative years were spent outside TamilNadu (mostly Bombay), SDB, Madan Mohan and Roshan were my favourites till I started giving a ear to the works of this genius and quickly placed him atop the list.
  
  People who accuse MSV of lacking in orchestral harmony back-up, do not know what they are talking about. Listen to a simple melody like 'Naan unnai cherntha selvam' from Kalaikoyil, check the 'multi-layered' arrangement, chords and the rest of it with a violin lead with flute back-up and the flute finally emerging with a twist and handing the song over to PBS to start the charanam. Srikanth can throw light on 'yaar antha nilavu', 'Chithirame solladi','NaaNamo' with respect to the arrangement.
  
  Hari, RDB overrated ? Romba Anyaayam. His name figures right at the top to me.
  BTW, 'Oorgolam...' (SPB and LRE) is from "Ikkaraikku akkarapachai', a wonderfully innovative tune with rich melody. How did he think of such a tune for the charanam ?
  
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ proxy12.ykt.prodigy.net) on: Sat Jun 19 06:14:05 EDT 1999
  
  Hari,
  'NaaLai namathe' had kaathal enbathu kaaviyamaanal kathanayakan veNdum and 'ennai vittaal' too. Note the beat patterns in the former, how beautifully the tabla and the triple congo are so much in accordance with the tune, which itself is brilliant.
  
  For his innovation without compromising on melody, you can go back to the 50's and 60's and there are a lot of songs that can leave you spell-bound. Have you heard 'aarodum maNNil' from pazhani? This is one of the greatest folk songs ever composed.Wonderful counterpoints too (pretty much on the same lines as Yamuna nathi inge). Srikanth, have you heard this song ? If so, your views please.
  Three stanzas , all with different tunes. After all, who could bring up images of a ploughed field with a flute alone? Believe me guys, nowhere will you here such a great usage of Pahadi raag.
  I believe MSV's greatness should not be worked out on the basis of his usage of raagas alone. His reaction to music itself was very instinctive which reflects in his compositions and thus several tunes of his do not conform to any raag as such. Even when he used some raagas (to him, most of the time, a raag was just a combination of notes and he couldn't care less for the gamakams that were traditionally associated with the raag), the original character would be totally overridden.
  
  I will just re-iterate what I had mentioned in some thread, has anybody heard a more innovative usage of Sivaranjani as in 'Utharavindri ULLe vaa' (title song)? The pallavi is totally in this raag, the I charanam (sung by an effeminate SPB) is a deviation, II charanam sung by TMS is classical Sivaranjani linked superbly back to the pallavi in all its youthful vigour.
  
  There is a popular misconception that MSV preferred to compose for pre-written lyrics. The fact is, this man was ready for anything. Immortal classics like 'Ponnenben siru poovenben','Vaan nila','Odum ENNangaLe'(Neela vaanam) had lyrics written for tunes. Point to be noted, there is no way you could judge how the charanam is going to flow after listening to the pallavi in any of the above songs, no formula there !!Complex too but with a natural flow, a case of complexity happening naturally and not stuffed into the tune for the sake of it (Salil could be accused of this at times).
  Most of my formative years were spent outside TamilNadu (mostly Bombay), SDB, Madan Mohan and Roshan were my favourites till I started giving a ear to the works of this genius and quickly placed him atop the list.
  
  People who accuse MSV of lacking in orchestral harmony back-up, do not know what they are talking about. Listen to a simple melody like 'Naan unnai cherntha selvam' from Kalaikoyil, check the 'multi-layered' arrangement, chords and the rest of it with a violin lead with flute back-up and the flute finally emerging with a twist and handing the song over to PBS to start the charanam. Srikanth can throw light on 'yaar antha nilavu', 'Chithirame solladi','NaaNamo' with respect to the arrangement.
  
  Hari, RDB overrated ? Romba Anyaayam. His name figures right at the top to me.
  BTW, 'Oorgolam...' (SPB and LRE) is from "Ikkaraikku akkarapachai', a wonderfully innovative tune with rich melody. How did he think of such a tune for the charanam ?
  
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ proxy12.ykt.prodigy.net) on: Sat Jun 19 06:14:35 EDT 1999
  
  Hari,
  'NaaLai namathe' had kaathal enbathu kaaviyamaanal kathanayakan veNdum and 'ennai vittaal' too. Note the beat patterns in the former, how beautifully the tabla and the triple congo are so much in accordance with the tune, which itself is brilliant.
  
  For his innovation without compromising on melody, you can go back to the 50's and 60's and there are a lot of songs that can leave you spell-bound. Have you heard 'aarodum maNNil' from pazhani? This is one of the greatest folk songs ever composed.Wonderful counterpoints too (pretty much on the same lines as Yamuna nathi inge). Srikanth, have you heard this song ? If so, your views please.
  Three stanzas , all with different tunes. After all, who could bring up images of a ploughed field with a flute alone? Believe me guys, nowhere will you here such a great usage of Pahadi raag.
  I believe MSV's greatness should not be worked out on the basis of his usage of raagas alone. His reaction to music itself was very instinctive which reflects in his compositions and thus several tunes of his do not conform to any raag as such. Even when he used some raagas (to him, most of the time, a raag was just a combination of notes and he couldn't care less for the gamakams that were traditionally associated with the raag), the original character would be totally overridden.
  
  I will just re-iterate what I had mentioned in some thread, has anybody heard a more innovative usage of Sivaranjani as in 'Utharavindri ULLe vaa' (title song)? The pallavi is totally in this raag, the I charanam (sung by an effeminate SPB) is a deviation, II charanam sung by TMS is classical Sivaranjani linked superbly back to the pallavi in all its youthful vigour.
  
  There is a popular misconception that MSV preferred to compose for pre-written lyrics. The fact is, this man was ready for anything. Immortal classics like 'Ponnenben siru poovenben','Vaan nila','Odum ENNangaLe'(Neela vaanam) had lyrics written for tunes. Point to be noted, there is no way you could judge how the charanam is going to flow after listening to the pallavi in any of the above songs, no formula there !!Complex too but with a natural flow, a case of complexity happening naturally and not stuffed into the tune for the sake of it (Salil could be accused of this at times).
  Most of my formative years were spent outside TamilNadu (mostly Bombay), SDB, Madan Mohan and Roshan were my favourites till I started giving a ear to the works of this genius and quickly placed him atop the list.
  
  People who accuse MSV of lacking in orchestral harmony back-up, do not know what they are talking about. Listen to a simple melody like 'Naan unnai cherntha selvam' from Kalaikoyil, check the 'multi-layered' arrangement, chords and the rest of it with a violin lead with flute back-up and the flute finally emerging with a twist and handing the song over to PBS to start the charanam. Srikanth can throw light on 'yaar antha nilavu', 'Chithirame solladi','NaaNamo' with respect to the arrangement.
  
  Hari, RDB overrated ? Romba Anyaayam. His name figures right at the top to me.
  BTW, 'Oorgolam...' (SPB and LRE) is from "Ikkaraikku akkarapachai', a wonderfully innovative tune with rich melody. How did he think of such a tune for the charanam ?
  
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ proxy16.ykt.prodigy.net) on: Sat Jun 19 07:20:15 EDT 1999
  
  Digression :
  Rameshb, KJY was emerging as the leading singer after 'Deivam thantha veedu' from 'AvaL oru thodar kathai'. This was followed by Malare, some NaLai namathe songs, Swami Ayyappan songs and some more. But during the same time, MSV started flooding SPB with some classics in PayaNam, Muthaana Muthallavo,avargaL etc. Shankar-Ganesh and VKumar had already switched over to SPB. I guess when IR made it with Uravadum NenjangaL etc, SPB's voice had already matured and an automatic choice for any MD.
  
  Has anybody heard 'Ulagam engum ore mozhi' from Nadodi (one of the first movies after break-up with TKR)? The mood, arrangement is all exemplary and outshines even Anil Biswas's 'Seene mein sulagthe hain armaan' ( a similar type of a song) from 'tarana'.
  
  Was listening to 'Engiruntho AasaigaL' (chandrodayam) this evening. This had a raggae-ish beat. The prelude was a wonderful mixture of violins, sitar and accordian with the sitar prompting the pallavi. Just like many MSV duets of the mid-sixties, the charanams had different tunes with only TMS slightly out-of-sorts.
  
  
• From: raja (@ spider-tf064.proxy.aol.com) on: Sat Jun 19 10:39:53 EDT 1999
  
  Sriram:
  
  Your post brought back the classics that many in DF pay more attention to.
  
  Naan Unnai Serndha Selvam - is a true classic-PS singing un viralgal en azhagai meetum and the whole stanza that follows is unforgettable especially when she repeats Vaatum - just hear it again..
  
  From your list I have
  
  Engirundho Asaigal, Odum Ennangale. Correct me if I am wrong - Pahadi was RDB's base for many greats- and the flute interlude in Aadorum just brings out the effect of walking on a paddy field -well put.
  
  I personally rate RDB as one of the most influential MDs who brought the correct mix of indian and western music to HFM. I attended Asha Bhonsale's live concert last year in the US and she sang the best of RDB-an unforgettable concert.
  
  Good post!!
  
  Back to SBP's interview - he was absolutely frank during the interview, he was totally relaxed and answered all questions freely from a studio audience. One of the audiences wanted to sing with SBP, and ended up singing Tere Mere (Ek Duuje Ke Liye).
  
  I was surprised to hear SBP being so open.
  
  

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