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Creativity of ARR

Topic started by RAJAN (@ proxy-117.iap.bryant.webtv.net) on Sat Jan 10 15:20:00 EST 1998.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Fri Nov 20 11:14:43 EST 1998
  
  why the hell are IR's albums being discussed here? ARR's creativity need not always be compared with IR's. why not just look at his music as HIS MUSIS, instead of nit-picking all the time and looking out for any faint traces of a so-called "lifted" rhythm? just listen to iruvar. man, i never heard such music in my life and i care two hoots if some spoilsport is gonna say it's all copied.
  man, we are talking ARR here, not deva, for heaven's sake.
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Fri Nov 20 11:14:49 EST 1998
  
  why the hell are IR's albums being discussed here? ARR's creativity need not always be compared with IR's. why not just look at his music as HIS MUSIC, instead of nit-picking all the time and looking out for any faint traces of a so-called "lifted" rhythm? just listen to iruvar. man, i never heard such music in my life and i care two hoots if some spoilsport is gonna say it's all copied.
  man, we are talking ARR here, not deva, for heaven's sake.
  
  
• From: shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Fri Nov 20 11:54:00 EST 1998
  
  cram,
  creativity-ARR contadicting A illai ???????
  narayana, narayana ... ;-))))
  
  
• From: shreeny@usa.net (@ ppp75-140.pppcal.vsnl.net.in) on: Fri Nov 20 13:03:26 EST 1998
  
  I think we are confused with 'Making music the way the public wants to listen' and coming out with 'Creative piece of music in terms of melody, harmony, orchestration'. While I agree that ARR is a master in understanding the taste of today's public and accordingly inserting tracks or overlaying melody on top of loops, I strongly disagree that he is a creative genius. But again making this comment is too early as ARR is pretty new and his span is very less to judge the creativity. we may keep listening to him for next 5 or 10 years and return to this forum, if he will still be making music then.
  
  
• From: SR Kaushik (@ elroy.cs.wisc.edu) on: Fri Nov 20 14:27:05 EST 1998
  
  Cram: the reason why IR is being talked about is that Pradeep ananth compared IR and ARR. Actually its not his fault either. The discussion sort of continued from the "Influence of ARR on TFM.." thread.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ ss03.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Fri Nov 20 14:44:41 EST 1998
  
  Kaushik:
  I tried to avoid this same situation in the "Influence..." thread and that is why I revived this for Pradeep - so that he could peacefully discuss ARR where others would have no reason to criticize him. Unfortunately, some of us can't bear to hear any one praising ARR.
  
  Since, I was directly responsible for reviving this thread, I think I would be justified in adding a request here - Please do not debate opinions in this thread. This is purely for discussing ARR's creativity - not lack of it. So if you feel that ARR is not creative, please do NOT post your objection here. This is not the right thread for it.
  
  
• From: nTv (@ inet21.us.oracle.com) on: Fri Nov 20 14:57:14 EST 1998
  
  ARR is pretty new? huh... gimme a break dude!
  
  You think 6 years is not enuf time? I think it's more than enuf. C'mon.. dont tell me he's still trying to establish and all that. For the kind of acceptance he got after Roja and Pudhiya Mugam, he should be the one setting standards for his music, not budging to Producers'/Directors' compulsions. I strongly feel that he fell prey for the trap of his own by making 'mukkala mukabla' kind of songs. Every film-maker wanted similar songs in his movie for you-know-what reasons. But, if he's really confident, shouldn't he have insisted about different styles and stuff. Look what he did.. he continued to milk on this crap, and went on producing mediocre songs like 'akkadaannu naanga', 'strawberry penne', 'kalluri saalai'.. to infinity. All this go to show that he just wants to BE in the industry.( I hear the teeth gritting from the MTV crowd!)
  
  He had been given his time, but nothing significant has happened yet!
  
  PS: I'm not a full-time ARR basher, but I'm a strong opponent of noise irrespective of who delivers it, and ARR tops this list
  
  
  
• From: nTv (@ inet20.us.oracle.com) on: Fri Nov 20 15:02:35 EST 1998
  
  oops.. missed your post Srinath! Lemme search for the right thread!
  
  Hope the admirers of the creative genius are not hurt! ;-)
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.28.73) on: Sat Nov 21 16:41:58 EST 1998
  
  nTv,
  i would certainly like to hear more from u, albeit, in a different thread (:-)))
  
  
• From: Lakshmanan (@ 208.222.9.66) on: Sun Nov 22 05:02:36 EST 1998
  
  Cram,
  Cant you still understand why ARR's music is compared with that of IR? Because, IR's music is THE standard in IFM. IR is the MD who fed us music sense and made us feeling music which, obviously includes ARR's. Again, cram, nobody in this thread will compare ARR and Deva. If somebody wants to do that, they can compare Deva with the harmonium player who plays for 'Valli Thirumanam' theru kooththu.
  
  
  
• From: Neels (@ 202.54.125.188) on: Mon Nov 23 09:16:59 EST 1998
  
  
  Lakshmanan's comparison is quite hilarious!
  
  I think the topic Creativity of ARR should not only include all praises but also give positive critisism. I understand mindless bashing should be avoided, but people should be alloweed to voice their opinion on his CREATIVE genius, good or bad!!! This one goes to Srinath :)
  
  Neels
  
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ ss04.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Mon Nov 23 10:25:57 EST 1998
  
  Neels:
  It takes the fun out of the DF for some ARR fans. People like Pradeep Ananth who appreciate ARR wholeheartedly will find nothing of interest in the DF if every opinion of theirs were to be countered. Agreed, even IMO, ARR is far behind IR in terms of creativity. But let there be atleast one, SINGLE thread where people can praise ARR without getting rebuttals left, right and centre ! Of course, if appreciating ARR means bashing IR for some, I will be there right at the top of the queue to respond :-) But apart from that, it might be a good idea for IR fans to give a wide berth to this thread and let ARR fans discuss in peace for a while :-) You'll find that when this discussion matures, ARR fans themselves will be offering constructive criticism.
  
  
• From: mukund (@ usm-0212-9.wans.net) on: Mon Nov 23 12:20:34 EST 1998
  
  As an example of creativity I want to mention 1 piece in Kizakku cheemaiyile - "aathangarai marame". This song is a typical ARR style presentation of a village situation - a stylish, urban like presentation of village situation - which will make urbanites proud to sing it, without all the colloqialism associated with it.
  
  But I am more interested in point in the song. That is the line - "paruthi kaatula" - a long line . The sandham is very different.
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ envy.cs.umass.edu) on: Mon Nov 23 13:52:05 EST 1998
  
  Srinath: I agree with you on this. :-). Pl. do not indulge in ARR bashing in this thread.. there are enough threads around for that.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Mon Nov 23 21:23:58 EST 1998
  
  - He tore away the tradition for folk songs and reinvented the whole genre in "Kizhakkuch Cheemayilae" and took it to new heights in "Karuththamma". In some corners of the world they call this creative
  - Flamenco strings in "Sambo Sambo" that swirl and twirl as if celebration is a newly discovered emotion
  - Island music arriving at the downhome shores in "Thillaana Thillaana"
  - The musical geography uncovered in "Adhisayam" where it wasn't just the camera that took you to the world's wonders, it's the music that set the stage for the eyes
  - A majority of the songs by ARR sound like they were created by someone in a good mood,
  - A hypnotic coupling of Musheira-like singing with, of all things, an accordian (previously used mostly in Polka music and square dances) in "Ennuyirae Ennuyirae"
  - Before ARR's time, the only prevalent modes of TFM composition: tunes for given lyrics, lyrics for preset tunes. ARR records separate tracks of music and singing and singes them together by altering the instruments, sounds, etc. For, example: the siren-like humming at the start of Ennuyirae Ennuyirae was achieved by combining a wind instrument and a human voice. If this process isn't creative, then the word creative isn't good enough to describe ARR.
  - A careless insult of ARR is his knowledge on ragams. Just by poring over the DF I have found Carnatic diehards mention the ragam bases for: En veettuth thoattathil, Malargalae Malargalae, Narumugaiyae, etc. So, the opposition is unfounded here too.
  - Just in one soundtrack, "Gentleman", ARR conducts an exhibition on a variety of instruments, especially rhythm: En veettuth thoattathil (mirudhangam, flute, veenai, jaladharangam?), Chikku Bukku Rayilu (steel drums, bongos, whistles), Paarkaathae (keyboards, cuckoo clock, whistles, claps), Ottagaththai (Thavil, violin, keyboards), Usilambatti (flute, keyboard drums, mandolin or some such sharp string instrument)
  - ARR throws more curves to an average sandham than most people are prepared for. Just hearing the sandham of the first stanza does not usually uncover the rest of the song in terms of its music or its sandham. To an objective listener, this is refreshing and inventive. To a traditionalist or one predisposed to oppose ARR, this may sound intrusive. Hell, variety and change is not for everybody. Neither is ARR.
  
  
• From: neeks (@ host67066.cfu.net) on: Tue Nov 24 00:56:23 EST 1998
  
  Well done Udhaya!
  
  
• From: Neels (@ 202.54.125.182) on: Tue Nov 24 04:32:55 EST 1998
  
  Minnale from May Maadam is one number where the music and lyrics go so well. They compliment each other. The orchastration is simply mindblowing.
  
  Porale ponnuthayee from Kizhakku Cheemayile is a very well-rendered number by Swarnalata and Unni Krishnan. The rhythm and the subtle instrumentation highlights the vocals and the song sometimes gives me goosebumps.
  
  Raasathi, is a great song from Thiruda Thiruda. There seems to be absolutely no use of instruments, though in the charanams, we can make out the use of base guitar. The mult-layered vocals and chorus is brilliant! It was a good experimentation by ARR, but alas, in my opinion, Mani Ratnam couldn't do justice to this song on screen (lousy situation and hence lousy picturisation too... in Mani's standard)
  
  The latest song from his repetoire is "Bol Sajni" from the Hindi film Doli Sajaake Rakhna. Sonu Nigam and Kavita have done some good job on this semi-classical number. Hope he repeats this song in one of his Tamil films, so the guys out here can enjoy the song's brilliance.
  
  ARR should come up with such great numbers. And should be careful about his choice of singers: like for silly lyrics one wouldn't mind new comers from other languages (and some Tamilians too, like Suresh Peters) who can't pronounce Tamil words.. but for such soulful numbers, he should stick to good singers. A couple of rhytmic numbers like Mukkala Muqabla may be what the producers want, but he should continue producing the good numbers for which he will be remembered for generations. Here, I would like to add that he should absolutely resist ANY copy-paste, however small the duration may be (like the YaoooondekkoYaooo Yaoo in the song Thillana Thillana, flicked from Deep Forest), so nobody can point fingers at him.
  
  Looking forward to more of Rojas, Pudiya Mugams, Thiruda Thirudas and Uyires in the future,
  
  Neels
  
  
• From: Neels (@ 202.54.125.182) on: Tue Nov 24 04:37:29 EST 1998
  
  In fact, it should be Dil Se, and not Uyire as I feel the Hindi version is much better.
  
  Neels
  
  

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